Intelligent Design POLL

[InfiniteNow]

So far the poll shows that a 56% do not believe in ID. The other 46% either does, or does in part or does not know. This is a close enough balance for...

Hmm... Funny. I read the results more as 70% no, 20% yes, 10% don't care to speculate.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics, huh?

 

TFS

[MagnetMan]

Hmm... Funny. I read the results more as 70% no, 20% yes, 10% don't care to speculate.

Read the poll again and read what I accurately stated. People who do not care to speculate don't vote at all. Bush could use you as a statistician.

[InfiniteNow]

Read the poll again and read what I accurately stated. People who do not care to speculate don't vote at all. Bush could use you as a statistician.

Prolly wouldn't work too well since I actually have a clue what I'm talking about... Let's see here...

 

Yes - Completely: lock, stock, and barrel 4 12.50%

Yes - mostly: but it has a few flaws 3 9.38%

No - Completely 18 56.25%

No - but it has a few merits 4 12.50%

I don't know 3 9.38%

 

 

I see YES1 (12.5) plus YES2 (9.4).

This would equal a total of 21.9% in the positive direction.

 

I see NO1 (56.25) plus NO2 (12.5).

This would equal a total of 68.75% in the negative direction.

 

What's left is 9.4% of voters who chose to vote but not speculate in either direction.

 

 

MM,

I sense there is a positive tone in your posts, but it's downright scary sometimes how often you are wearing blinders to the way things are.

[Boerseun]

MagnetMan, QuantumConsultant et al:

 

Why is it that you guys can support (vehemently, I might add) paranormal stuff like auras, when James Randi is still sitting on his million dollars?

 

Come on, QC - you know something about auras that we don't. Go to http://www.randi.org, and show it to them. Your bragging rights will be a cool million dollars. And MM, it simply doesn't matter that close on 50% (in your erroneous calculation) of posters here believe ID has merits, because they're wrong. Say, for instance, the majority of US schoolkids (that had the bad luck of being brainwashed by the State in Government schools) started believing the Earth is flat? It would be reasonable, seeing as that is what you see, the 'flat' impression is the intuitive one. People on the other side of the world? Bah! They'll fall off! Should we then teach that position as well?

 

Science is NOT a democracy, and it is futile pretending so.

 

"Intelligent Design" would also qualify for James Randi's million. Go check it out, and I suggest anybody who wants to wax lyrical about the paranormal here, in the hallowed halls of these Science forums, should first scan and post a deposit slip of a cheque with James Randi's signature on it.

 

Go check it - http://www.randi.org

[Tormod]

First of all I would like to know why anger drips off your every word?

Because Boerseun is a South African. Mean buggers, them.

 

In fact, I don't see any anger in his posts. He is posting quite reasonable arguments against which your only response is a catfight.

 

This is why we have a theology forum - because people who see Auras and need to call on superstitious ideas (ie, religion) to explain them, so easily come forth as crackpots who have no idea what science is.

 

I am not going to call you a crackpot, but I question your scientific skills. Where can I find evidence for your self-proclaimed role as scientist? If it is posted somewhere, please tell me where.

[QuantumConsultant]

Once again, completely presumptious. But I'll ignore that for the moment.

 

The basis of this book is that consciousness can be explained as a Bose-Einstein condensate of atoms in the neurons. Interesting idea, sadly impossible. Bose-Einstein condensates can only exist at very low temperatures. The inside of the brain certainly doesn't qualify. The authors could've easily established the impossibility of their claim by looking up B-E condensates in any textbook on statistical mechanics.

 

The authors readily admit their bold claims—"Your emotional health, your success in the world, and your level of joy can all be dramatically enhanced by shifting the energies that regulate them"—are not backed by empirical research. This, therefore, is pure speculation, and doesn't count as evidence.

 

Fred Alan Wolf demonstrates exquisite craftsmanship in his newest book, MATTER INTO FEELING, as he ties alchemy together with letters of the Hebrew alphabet and physics. - Amazon. Say no more.

 

New Age bull, involving 'healing through interaction with the human aura', or, as it is more widely known, The Emperor's New Age Clothes.

 

No, QuantumConsultant. These texts merely serve to illustrate how popular mysticism is eroding the ground won by good, solid science since the middle ages. There is nothing presented by you here that could count for anything in the scientific world. But then again, you should know that.

 

Also, in the same vein, if you would wish to hold an intelligent conversation here, I can steer you in the direction of some proper scientific material. You might be horrified and disappointed to learn that all this New Age mumbo-jumbo is just that: mumbo jumbo, but, hey - nothing comes free in this life.

 

As a primer for your Scientific Awakening, refer to http://www.snakelyone.com/12step.htm

You have done an excellent job of copying and pasting somebody elses book review off Amazon. Very impressive scientific analysis. The above authors, all scientists, have done years of research and study and you make your brilliant analysis of it all in 15 minutes of reading Amazon book reviews. I don't think your are capable of genuine thought and I will prove my point here in a minute.

 

So you guys want to question my credentials, huh? Well, let's just look at the scientific analysis posted thus far by Boerseun, shall we?

 

The main discussion has been the power of the mind (Plecebo effect) and the existence of a bio-energetic field (Aura).

 

The plecebo effect is a well documented medical and scientific phenomenon. Let's say somebody has a headache. Not a Boerseun Illusionary headache, but an actual human one. This person is then given an empty Tylenol capsule and an hour later his headache is gone. Boerseun's response to the beautiful power of the mind is this:

The placebo effect is an illusion of healing for an illusionary illness.

 

Brilliant!! No further investigation required! Thank God for the genius of Boerseun! He came through on that one. :Glasses:

 

Now let us look at the bio-energetic field. I offer that study has been being done on this since the 1960s. His response:

 

A lot has been going on since the '60s. A lot of it mind-altering and illegal.

 

Another round of applause for such brilliant, scientific thought.

 

I give you several authors, all scientists, who have done years of research and your scientific analysis spands all of a 15 minute book review on Amazon.

 

Other responses by our very scientific friend:

 

To the best of my knowledge, there is no device that can pick up an 'aura' for the simple reason that an 'aura' does not exist

 

According to your line of very scientific reasoning X-rays didn't exist before 1895. It was the discovery of the x-ray that brought it into existence, right?

 

So let's continue this Boerseun Reasoning process. Since the very beginning of this thread I have offered statements in support of my claim that the power of the mind is real and bio-energetic fields exist. All Boerseun has done is post statements that either mock or ridicule my thinking and has not once offered up his own original statements that support his position. Therefore, due to the lack of evidence of original thought on the part of Boerseun I therefore conclude that he is completely devoid of the capacity to create original thinking.

 

But I will offer him the opportunity to "prove' his position as he has insisted I do.

 

Show me the scientific evidence that supports your position and the claim that a bio-energitic fields do not exist and that the plecebo effect in indeed illusionary. And you can't use the "It can't be measured therefore it doesen't exist" position because that does not hold water. Well, you can use it but then I would have to call you ignorant and then you would get offended.

 

And speaking of getting offended...You wrote:

I find the sentence "because you are blinded by anger, bigotry, hatred, and ignorance" to be profoundly offensive. You don't know me.

 

There is not one thing you could say to me that would cause me to get offended. A muture adult would neve let a child "offend" him. (I am not calling you a child. I am offering an analogy of a spiritually mature person versus a spiritually immature person.) I am on much more solid ground with who I am than you are. That is why you have the capacity to get offended at my words and don't have the ability to do the same with me.

 

I do know you, Boerseun. I know you by the choice of words you use to express yourself. And so far you have not done a very good job of offering anything of intellectual value. Maybe you should join the Fryer's Club. You seem much more suited to ridicule and blame than to offering anything of scientific value. And you want to question my credentials? :esmoking:

 

As always, my love to you all. :)

[QuantumConsultant]

He is posting quite reasonable arguments against which your only response is a catfight.

 

Is this one of the "reasonable arguments" you like?

 

A lot has been going on since the '60s. A lot of it mind-altering and illegal.

 

Or maybe it is this one:

 

The placebo effect is an illusion of healing for an illusionary illness.

 

Or your brilliant quote:

 

because people who see Auras and need to call on superstitious ideas (ie, religion) to explain them, so easily come forth as crackpots who have no idea what science is.

 

Neither you nor Boerseun are interested in the truth. People who genuinely seek truth study and analyze before drawing conclusions. You two gentlemen do not do this. As far as I see it your only purpose with this forum is to debase and ridicule. Neither one of you have offered anything of substance that could be classified as a genuine thought.

 

What do you actually think is happening when a person with a headache takes an empty Tylenol capsule and his headache goes away? Are you also saying that this person's headache was an illusion and therefore an illusion cured an illusion? Surely you have something of actual intellectual substance to offer besides claiming your friend is offering brilliant dialogue. :esmoking: This is all turning out to be quite hilarious.

[QuantumConsultant]

I am not going to call you a crackpot, but I question your scientific skills.

 

Let's look at that for a moment.

 

1) Scientific-of, relating to, or exhibiting the methods or principles of science. Comes from Medieval Latin scientificus producing knowledge.

 

2)Science-such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena. (Merriam-Webster, definition 3b )

 

The plecebo effect and the existence of a bio-energitic field are both areas of legitimate scientific study. Of course, you guys don't really care about genuine scientific study because you have not contributed anything of genuine, scientific input.

 

The evidence you have presented in this forum, gentlemen, speaks for itself.

[Boerseun]

Hehehe...

 

QC, sorry if my typing's a bit erratic, I'm trying to keep a straight face here.

 

Just tell me one thing: Are you for real?

 

You have:

 

NO IDEA how science works.

 

This being the case, please refer to this forum's name: SCIENCEforums.com...

 

:esmoking:

 

Have you been to http://www.randi.org yet?

[IrishEyes]

The evidence you have presented in this forum, gentlemen, speaks for itself.

I think you need to remember that, if not for the gentlemen that you are choosing to disparage, THIS forum would not exist at all. Keep that in mind when you are going on about people being unscientific.

 

While I may not agree with every thought or idea that is presented here, I have never ceased to appreciate the fact that there is a place for so many different thoughts and ideas. If you are not finding the audience that you seek in this thread, do as Tormod suggests and head for the Theology forum.

[QuantumConsultant]

 

You have:

 

NO IDEA how science works.

 

Very intellectually and scientifically stimulating comment but I'm still waiting for some genuine input from you on the ideas at hand. Or is it possible you don't have any?

 

Your replies do nothing but illustrate my point.

[QuantumConsultant]

I think you need to remember that, if not for the gentlemen that you are choosing to disparage, THIS forum would not exist at all. Keep that in mind when you are going on about people being unscientific.

 

 

So you are saying that I should tip-toe around these guy's egos and the fact that they have not contributed anything intellectually to the topics at hand simply because they are the developers of this forum? :esmoking:

 

I guess you are right. I will leave you children to play in your sand box. There obviously is not intelligent conversation to be found here. :Glasses:

 

Adios

[TheFaithfulStone]

I guess you are right. I will leave you children to play in your sand box. There obviously is not intelligent conversation to be found here.

 

Adios

 

And in that way, it's like most conversations with Intelligent Design advocates.

 

Or, as I like to call them ID-iots.

 

TFS

[oo snap. just kidding guys.]

[Buffy]

I guess you are right. I will leave you children to play in your sand box. There obviously is not intelligent conversation to be found here. :hihi:

(I'm late, I didn't notice though: did he ever say anything of any substance? Or was he just practicing throwing anonymous epithets? :confused:)

Adios

Awwww.... Maybe if you give me your mommy's number I can talk to her and discuss your behavioral issues with her directly and we can figure out how to get you to play properly with the other children. Let me know! :rant:

 

Just to be clear, we don't want to discourage sociopaths from participating here--we recognize that its a genetically-driven disorder and we do not like to discriminate--we just expect them to behave themselves as they seek to become fine upstanding citizens.

 

Welcome to Hypography!

Buffy

[MagnetMan]

So you are saying that I should tip-toe around these guy's egos and the fact that they have not contributed anything intellectually to the topics at hand simply because they are the developers of this forum? :hihi:

 

I guess you are right. I will leave you children to play in your sand box. There obviously is not intelligent conversation to be found here. :)

 

Adios

 

I would be sorry to see you go and I know there are others here who feel the same. Your detractors are barely old enough to call themselves adults, certainly notr masters - yet believe they have the answers to all things on Earth and in Heaven. Faith, Hope and Charity cannot be found in any page of any of the mechanical manuals they lean on. Their rudeness should be ignored. I made the mistake of sinking to that level in defence of a Truth I believed in, and regret it. I sincerely hope you will reconsider and stay and continue the good fight. New Age thought will suffer the same redicule that science once suffered under. It is human nature to fear new ideas, only the brave keep their minds and hearts open.;)

[Buffy]

Your detractors are barely old enough to call themselves adults, certainly notr masters - yet believe they have the answers to all things on Earth and in Heaven.

So you're saying that its okay to call people children if you are religious, but its not okay if you are defending science?

 

My point above was subtle: no one gets anywhere by calling people names. Mr. QC is new to these forums, and yet he feels free to blast away with rudeness that would have his mother turning green if she could hear him. Worse, he seems to make his points by uh, "reinterpreting" people's comments to suit his own purposes. Then he wallows in paranoid "victimology" and uses that to self-righteously yet preposterously turn the other cheek. Its a modus operandi that is highly offensive, and it doesn't matter what his opinions are about anything.

 

He's rude and if he gets blasted by the old timers here, maybe he deserves it.

 

What is more tiresome than anything, is aspersions like "believe they have the answers to all things on Earth and in Heaven" by people who likewise believe that they have similar answers.

 

There's nothing sadder than those who are so blind to their own weaknesses.

 

Pot calls kettle black. Both scortched,

Buffy