Africa, what to do?

[J.B]

It sounds like you people are trying to teach blacks not to be blacks anymore.

 

Good luck:lol:

[Kayra]

I would like to get us back on thread and end this personal bisness if possible.

Let us revisit the orgins of the dispute and see if we can resolved it. Here is my original post, in response to your claim that man is innately greedy.

From my perspective that is the sort of reply I would expect from a smart-*** twelve year old.

 

Gee, that reply should end the personal business right away.

 

 

We are addresssing the problesm of mass starvation, genocude and AIDS in Africa. Thoughful debate is required. Zebras cannot help Africa. Only a highly spiritualized and compassionate human work force is going to accomplish that.

 

Patently untrue in my opinion (and we all know your opinion of my opinion)

Only highly motivated people will be able to accomplish those goals. The main difference is that you believe that nothing other then the kindness in a person's heart will motivate them to solve the problems. Boerseum has presented his perspective that many things motivate people, personal gain being one of the most powerful.

 

Instead of opening a possible discourse on what motivates people, you used terms like "Crass", "vapid", "Impudent", "Stupid" and my favorite "smart-*** twelve year old".

 

I think you may have to accept that you are not looking to open a dialog.

 

If nonone of us are preapared to do accept that mankind has that capacity, and is in fact just a dumb animal then further discussion is pointless.

 

Further discussion would imply that you would allow viewpoints that do not match your own, or at least make a reasonable argument for or against them.

 

If you consider that there might be other possible methods of motivating people, then you would see that Your statement is not true. Fear, pride, greed, a sense of unity, compassion, envy, these are all motivating factors in people.

 

 

Are you giving an elder a lesson in common human decency young man?

 

Hard to give a lesson when the student refuses to listen.

he is giving you a lesson in how to carry on a proper discussion to that a solution can be found. Your obvious rudeness in your posts has little to do with your obvious (to me) decency as a human being.

 

Are you threatening to ban me?

 

Good grief....

 

 

I keep forgetting I was going to stop posting in this thread..

Sorry about that.

[TheFaithfulStone]

One thing you will have to teach blacks is to not have sex with animals.

 

At least he's gone from hateful to ridiculous and stupid. Much easier to ignore.

 

TFS

[J.B]

what kind of volcano am i sitting on?????????

 

 

http://wehategringos.com/index2.shtml

[Boerseun]

MagnetMan, you amaze me.

 

Do you assume wisdom comes naturally with age? Almost like senility? And, yes - it seems like you do need a few lessons, even if it is from a little '12 year old'. I have grave reservations about your 'global stewardship foundation' if that is the kind of respect you hold for the youth, and their opinions. I smell a money-making scheme in this 'non-profit- foundation, because no sincere individual will be as patronizing and arrogant regarding his opinions as you, if they are truly concerned about the issues you say you are.

 

Go and sell your book somewhere else. Friendly hint - just do it with a bit more respect and consideration for your fellow humans and their opinions, and you might just make it for a few more days without getting banned.

 

Oh - and J.B, if you think bestiality is a uniquely African trait, you are not only mistaken, but prejudiced, biased, and racist to the core. I hereby publically move that J.B be banned. Get outta my face, you idiot, and go and spout your white supremacist poison somewhere else.

[J.B]

Oh - and J.B, if you think bestiality is a uniquely African trait, you are not only mistaken, but prejudiced, biased, and racist to the core. I hereby publically move that J.B be banned. Get outta my face, you idiot, and go and spout your white supremacist poison somewhere else.

 

Today's African news:

 

SA's child rape shame

Sheena Adams

March 11 2006 at 09:13AM

 

More children are being murdered and raped in South Africa than in previous years, according to police statistics, which reveal that more than three children are killed every day.

 

Equally shocking is that statistics released by the Safety and Security Ministry also show that more than 60 children are raped daily.

 

The figures were released in the same week that saw the brutal murder of Transvaal Judge President Bernard Ngoepe's granddaughter Makgabo Matlala, 4.

 

Statistics released on Friday by Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula show that 1 128 children were murdered between April 2004 and March last year.

 

He said the figures amounted to a total onslaught on the country's children and urged the government to introduce drastic steps to reduce crimes against minors.

 

"The conviction rate in the 2003/2004 financial year was 4.5%. This means there's a 95% chance of not being caught, so people are re-offending all the time. And it's not about poverty either because, even if you're poor, it doesn't mean you go around raping children," Waters said.

 

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060311090431418C319416

[jkellmd]

I wanted to thank (almost) everyone for their (mostly) thoughful responses in the thread. I posted the question with the idea that I might get some recon from people on the ground in africa as to what the situation really is, which schemes seem to be working, and what some new ideas might be. You responded in force, thanks.

 

I feel I must respond personally to J.B.'s intimation that anyone might "feel superior," through discussion of this topic. No, in fact I do not feel superior to africans while discussing the plight of an entire continent and a huge portion of humanity. The last refuge of many species, including the remainder of the great apes (except the orangutan) is at stake, a quarter to a third of the population has HIV, and the ecological destruction taking place are helping to poison the rest of the earth.

 

In a less altruistic vein, I don't personally know anyone in africa, and most likely never will. I even manage to maintain the average emotional distance from archetypal images of Sally Struther's kids, greedy warlords, hungry farmers, etc. - yet the issues bleeding forth from african nations effect me personally now, and will only grow. The U.S. is spending your tax dollars there as well as mine - largely without direction, and without much real impact. If we want to be getting anything for our foreign-aid money, we had better pay attention. If emotional appeals pass you by, perhaps an economic one will hit home.

[questor]

as an answer to the question posed by the title of this thread, a question comes to me. who is responsible for the future of Africa? is it the world at large or Africans themselves? i think Africa has over 53 or so countries, some are peaceful and some are not. what becomes of the money sent by outside countries? does it help the poor, or does it go to murderous dictators? do the prosperous and successful countries owe anything to their fellow Africans or is it up to the Western countries? most successful societies have certain things in common: freedom, an educated populace, goods to exchange,

a healthy financial system, willing workers,and a stable goverment. what would it take to make these things possible for Africans and what are they willing to do to help themselves?

[InfiniteNow]

as an answer to the question posed by the title of this thread, a question comes to me.

You said "a question." I count six. :hihi:

[MagnetMan]

as an answer to the question posed by the title of this thread, a question comes to me. who is responsible for the future of Africa? is it the world at large or Africans themselves? do the prosperous and successful countries owe anything to their fellow Africans or is it up to the Western countries?

First and foremost, Africans themselves. Secondly, all those countries who enslaved Africans. Thirdly. The remainder of the human family.

 

what becomes of the money sent by outside countries? does it help the poor, or does it go to murderous dictators?

 

Money corrupts inevitably. What Africa needs is friendly people with technical expertise and willing backs.

 

most successful societies have certain things in common: freedom, an educated populace, goods to exchange, a healthy financial system, willing workers,and a stable goverment. what would it take to make these things possible for Africans and what are they willing to do to help themselves?

 

Offer African students free technological training, both here and over there. Help Africa build up its infrastructure. Makes sure we treat them as eqiuals while we are helping them. Try to not make the same industrial pollution mistakes.

 

A decade of short-term investment of people and resources by the wealthy nations, will bring long-term returns to all of us. It will also go a long way towards reparing our torn reputation everywhere else (the Middle East included) and help make the world a more peaceful place to live on.

[questor]

and what do Africans do in return for the help they receive? do they take rsponsibility for themselves? do they overthrow the dictators? do they stop killing each other? do they use the money wisely? or do they, like so many others, take our money and tell us to go screw ourselves?

[MagnetMan]

and what do Africans do in return for the help they receive? do they take rsponsibility for themselves? do they overthrow the dictators? do they stop killing each other? do they use the money wisely? or do they, like so many others, take our money and tell us to go screw ourselves?

 

As I said, the initiative must come from Africa first. The King of Bunyaro-Itaro in Wesern Uganda, for instance, has made such an overture to our Global Stewardship Foundation after a recent visit by one of our officers. That once mighty Kingdom was ravished and decimated by colonial occupation. Right now their economy is based on planting tobacco for the Bristh American Tobacco Corporation. It is a degenerative generational heritage resulting from an early colonial policy. That filthy crop is poisoning their soil and the meagre money paid has crippled their economy and their ability to bail themselves out of a raw deal. As I said, no cash payments. Africa needs a hand up, not a handout. Money only corrupts. We send in well-equipped trained people, who train his workforce. Together we help put that country in the middle of Africa back on a level footing. The country is centrally situated and a fine place to establish a prestigeous Poly/Technical training center that can attract students and income from all over Africa. The good news spreads out from there. If they ask for help, we help. That is the condition. Good news spreads just as fast as bad.

[Kayra]

Money corrupts inevitably.

 

Then the world is corrupt, and you would have to find a way to work within that corruption. (others call it capitalism)

 

What Africa needs is friendly people with technical expertise and willing backs.

 

Offer African students free technological training, both here and over there. .

 

Lets see. Take a poor person, bring them to America (or any first world country), train, educate them, ensure that they sped the 2-6 years of education time in the (comparative) lap of luxury, then send them back to poverty, disease, and squalor.

 

Now, you as a young African, freshly educated, accustomed to more comfortable surroundings, and aware of the value of your skills. What would you do? Back at your village/town your new education has no value at all (except as a teacher of useless skills). You want to help your family, and your village, so you take off to the closest place that has enough of an economic infrastructure to pay you appropriately for the skills you now posses. You send what money you can spare back home.

 

Education without economic infrastructure is a wasted effort. Your earlier posts made it abundantly clear about your thoughts on Economic infrastructure and the "Greed" it would bring.

 

Help Africa build up its infrastructure. Makes sure we treat them as equals while we are helping them. Try to not make the same industrial pollution mistakes.

 

Which infrastructure are you talking about?

 

A decade of short-term investment of people and resources by the wealthy nations, will bring long-term returns to all of us. It will also go a long way towards repairing our torn reputation everywhere else (the Middle East included) and help make the world a more peaceful place to live on.

 

A wonderful sentiment MagnetMan.

Every post you make convinces me that you are a true humanitarian, with a deep spiritual believe in the altruistic aspects of human nature.

While I believe this would make you and exceptional and trustworthy Friend, I also believe it would make you and exceptionally poor advocate. :evil:

 

Your statements are ephemeral at best, with no concrete direction or suggestion. They do not address even the basic issues at hand, and would inevitably result is a loss of time, effort, and hope from any altruistic soul.

 

 

In my opinion, the single greatest obstacle to helping Africa is African mentality. The tribal "Us verses them" mindset is a poison Meme that has to be expunged before any progress can be made. Can you suggest a step by step method for changing this? Real steps, not "Oh the world should help them" statements.

 

The second greatest obstacle is lack of economic infrastructures. Any attempt to help in this endeavor is doomed to failure until the "Us Vs them" meme is changed, expanded, or removed. Any tribe or group of people seeing another tribe doing well will only spend their efforts tearing down the neighbors work, instead of competing and building their own.

 

With prosperity would come education, trade, birth control, disease reduction, and a host of other nice surprises as well.

[Kayra]

As I said, the initiative must come from Africa first.

 

Agreed

 

Africa needs a hand up, not a handout.

 

Agreed

 

Money only corrupts.

 

Disagree. Money given out freely is corrupting. Money that they earn is not.

 

We send in well-equipped trained people, who train his workforce. Together we help put that country in the middle of Africa back on a level footing. The country is centrally situated and a fine place to establish a prestigeous Poly/Technical training center that can attract students and income from all over Africa. The good news spreads out from there. If they ask for help, we help. That is the condition. Good news spreads just as fast as bad.

 

Much better MagnetMan.

Seeds of ideas, and steps that can be evaluated and discussed :evil: