RFID - Invasion of Privacy or good business

[Cedars]

Yes and i already have it and use it for protection against someone trying to get my credit card info (those have rfids). The way to protect cards like that is to get a wallet that has a woven alluminum layer inside leather, that scews up radio signals so bad that it renders your rfid, while inside your wallet, unreadable. It has to be woven piece of alluminum foil, not just a regular piece because of its advantages in both being pliable, but also its rf properties make it work better for scrambling.

 

What else, there are fabrics that prevent electromagnetic waves from penetrating to your body, 2 in all that i saw so far, one will react to those metal detection wands, the other will not (i'll try to get you a link later on)

 

 

Thank you, that is exactly the information I was looking for. Do post the links when you get a chance.

[IDMclean]

Alright then, check my public portfolio for my Date of birth.

 

My name is Ian Mclean, I have few middle names but for now that should suffice. I live in Chico, california at a little trailer park.

 

I prefer to keep my screen name as opposed to my real name for protection against the less than honest individuals of the world, and to minimize risk. This risk is created by a system which I fundamentally opposed. Re-enforced by the inherent contradictory nature thereof.

 

It's all a matter of trust, not to mention as Thomas Jefferson said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.".

 

Misuse of my data is not a seemless invisible thing. As with anything in the physical world, action equals reaction. That means detectability. I trust in the universal laws, and the laws of man.

[Turtle]

Misuse of my data is not a seemless invisible thing. As with anything in the physical world, action equals reaction. That means detectability. I trust in the universal laws, and the laws of man.

 

I once filled out a consumer survey under an assumed name to see how much junk mail it generated. Not only did I receive hundreds of pieces over many years, but somehow 'they' created a wife for me! 'She' still receives offers from an elite furniture store in Seattle.:hyper:

 

Hope ya got a big mailbox Clown. :)

 

Good grief! :doh:

 

There's a time to wink as well as to see. - Ben Franklin

[alexander]

Clown, I have little to hide either, and sitting on the opposite side of my yard, at a realter agency, you can easily find out about everything you want about me. Its not that i dont understand your position, not at all, you just dont give a damn, and that is fine, but there are those who seek security some are even called "security professionals" and for someone that knows how to find information, your name is enough. At this year's HackersOnPlanetEarth conference, one of the presentations/pannel was called "Privacy is Dead, Get Over it", well the guy who was supposed to be the head of the pannel took a volunteer's name a week before and compiled over 300 pages of information about this volunteer, including pictures of the family, areal photographs of the house and any other information that you can possibly think of. BTW the day before the conference, he was taken away in handcuffs by 2 men wearing blue suits with FBI written across the back...

I've talked to people who have been hired by the government to compile information about all suspected terrorists held in the US concentration camps (yes i mean it that way).

I've talked to people who can find any millitary records in US, Canada, UK, Russia, French Foreign Legion (that by the way still uses legion names) and probably a handful of other countries i can't remember off the top of my head.

 

What can you do with all this information? You ask? well, for example this big new thing called identity theft, when someone uses your identity or becomes you and can get you in a lot of trouble. Or someone is trying to influence you or your friend into doing something by terrorising your family (like in that movie "The Firewall")

 

anyways there are pleny of different ways of using the information, i wont do it, and i do what i can to not have that happen to me...

 

the moral is, the fact that you dont care does not mean that it is stupid and noone else cares...

[alexander]

by the way, here is the reaource for emf resistant fabric and materials:

http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html

[IDMclean]

Understandable position, and as I indicated. I recognize the major other position to the debate, but In the big picture, I don't see how it fits. For me when things don't fit, they aren't part of the big picture. Hell often enough when I can't fit them in the big picture, I generally can fit them in nothing other than their own picture, and even then that's hard. (Take the bible for example.)

 

Moral of my side is this. The human world runs on trust, and social contract. The sooner people stop being paranoid of the majority of humankind, the better. That is not to say don't be cautious in your dealings, or have ice cream socials with dangerous types.

 

As for the Identity theft thing? Well, that is pretty much the same I give regarding doors, locks, and car keys. That is all those things are for honest people. You don't have locks to keep thieves out. Though such things might serve as a deterrent. You have locks and doors to keep people out. People are an entirely different class of creature than thieves and other ne'er do wells.

 

See, as Alex can attest, and myself, being something of a former thief, all these forms of security are to keep out the people who are willing to stay out. Any device, anything anyone can think of to keep someone out, can be circumvented. You know why bank vaults are built and then the building is built around them?

 

That is, you either have degrees of freedom or degrees of security. Rarely can you have both at the same time.

 

Also, often enough the people are best at hiding, are the one's you least want hiding from you.

[Cedars]

Alright then, check my public portfolio for my Date of birth.

 

My name is Ian Mclean, I have few middle names but for now that should suffice. I live in Chico, california at a little trailer park.

 

I prefer to keep my screen name as opposed to my real name for protection against the less than honest individuals of the world, and to minimize risk. This risk is created by a system which I fundamentally opposed. Re-enforced by the inherent contradictory nature thereof.

 

It's all a matter of trust, not to mention as Thomas Jefferson said "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.".

 

Misuse of my data is not a seemless invisible thing. As with anything in the physical world, action equals reaction. That means detectability. I trust in the universal laws, and the laws of man.

 

See, you didnt quite meet the pepsi challenge. Given a choice, you did not reveal your middle name and yes, it is to protect yourself from less than honest individuals. The point was with the readers on your ID, you wont have a choice as to witholding your middle name. And while you want to protect yourself against the less than honest individuals, this is taking another aspect of that completely out of your hands. You have no control over who is working for these other entities and viewing this data. In Minnesota there was a program to encourage employers to hire convicted felons. The state gave the business a tax credit for this. My ex came home and told me about how the employer was running around asking all the employees if they were ex-con so he could sign them up and get his tax break.

 

What control do you have now, over this post, which reveals this information? You can email the mods and ask them to delete my post, but other than that, your private information is now posted for however long I leave the quote in this post. Your info is now in my control.

 

(Bit with names removed since it is no longer relevant) I dont know that it is the same one, but their middle initials are the same. That cost me nothing. I didnt bother to search for the GA persons addresses and phone numbers.

 

For a small fee, this ONE database offers this (and much more)

BACKGROUND REPORT INCLUDES (WHEN AVAILABLE):

 

CRIMINAL CHECK

SEX OFFENDER CHECK

BANKRUPTCIES & LIENS

SMALL CLAIMS & JUDGMENTS

ADDRESS HISTORY

RELATIVES & ASSOCIATES

NEIGHBORS

HOME VALUE & DETAILS

NEIGHBORHOOD INFO

SATELLITE & MAP IMAGES

ALIAS NAMES

 

And yes, this is not seamless should I invest in this additional information. But knowing I purchaced this info, and proving I used it for an illegal purpose is a whole different ballgame. Do you know anyone who has been a victim of ID theft? If so, you should fully realize that the chances of catching that person is slim and the hassles it causes for the party involved can last for years. I dont know if you read the post to CK that I wrote, but to the best of my knowledge, the Health dept never did solve the riddle of who released the names of the patients to the news org. And that should be a seamless environment wouldnt you say?

 

There is a big difference between willingly giving the information to a company and them harvesting it without your consent. I am not talking about banning the willfull accumulation of data, what bothers me is them harvesting my name, address and B.D. (and a host of other information) without my consent, and passing it around computer systems, selling it to other marketing entities and giving it to government agencies, taking the control I have away, without my consent. How do you keep honest people honest when there isnt a lock on the door?

[Cedars]

I once filled out a consumer survey under an assumed name to see how much junk mail it generated. Not only did I receive hundreds of pieces over many years, but somehow 'they' created a wife for me! 'She' still receives offers from an elite furniture store in Seattle.:naughty:

 

Hope ya got a big mailbox Clown. :hihi:

 

Good grief! :)

 

There's a time to wink as well as to see. - Ben Franklin

 

A cat named Mr. Mojo Risen entered a win a car contest. Long after he had been run over while prowling the streets, he received offers for visas, rental cars and a host of other mailings. I dont remember him getting married though.

[IDMclean]

Given a choice, you did not reveal your middle name and yes, it is to protect yourself from less than honest individuals.

 

You make the mistake of assuming. I did not with hold my middle name for that purpose, but because I am a lazy individual. I didn't feel like writing out my three middles names. In any case, I provided the sufficent information. You did not explicitly ask for my middle names. You wrote:

Would you post your real name, address and birthdate here on hypography for 24 hours?

 

That I chose not to place up my middle names, is inconsequential, as you have proven. You may feel free to run a back ground check, if you wish. You will not find anything that I would not otherwise tell you.

this is taking another aspect of that completely out of your hands. You have no control over who is working for these other entities and viewing this data.

Again a false assumption. You assume that you have control over your information. That you are the sole holder of that information. Sorry that is not the case. You are a public personality, whether you like it or not. You live in a society, and that society maintains information on you based on fullfillment of trust issues. Without that information, you or any other person could do what they wish and could not be tracked down and brought to justice. Take this site of example. Your real name is here, embedded in this server. Now as much security as this server may or may not have, it is nothing when it comes to a peice of filled out paper, with the right stamp.

 

With your post, all you prove is my point. You can not keep hidden what a sneaky, cunning individual would others seek to find. I'm fairly sure if you wanted to, you could have discovered all the information provide simply by googling my screenname and associated information.

 

What control do you have now, over this post, which reveals this information? You can email the mods and ask them to delete my post, but other than that, your private information is now posted for however long I leave the quote in this post. Your info is now in my control.

 

You make a mistake. You presuppose that my information is private. Which it is not. You also once again presuppose that you, or myself have control over this information.

 

My point being, that information is not my information. I do not control it, it is external to myself. If your anything like me, which I would guess you are being human and all, then you have at least considered the idea of freedom of information.

 

I'm certain that given time and effort I could find ever little detail of your life. Could probably mess it up to, at least to a degree, and provided that you provided no resistence, then I suppose that I could get away with it. Not that I would, cause I happen to be a more honest person than most.

 

The information that society keeps is not for our benefit. Though we can benefit from it. The information that society keeps is for the benefit of the society, and what that means is public.

 

There is only the illusion of privacy, and the measure of comfort that affords to the paranoid minds.

[Turtle]

Not when that business interacts with other's business. At that junction, it goes from your own business to our own business.

 

No, it is not your business. When you look into someone's window, regardless of what they are doing, you are a voyeur. In the same vein, by posting your address in public, I consider you an exhibitionist.

[Turtle]

I have to wonder, what is privacy, and what do these people who are opposed to data collection regarding their habits have to hide?

 

I personally have very little to hide, and of what I do have to hide is just a personal security issue.

 

First, the US Constitution guarantees the right to privacy without regard to any reason a person may assert it. People can, and are, using these RFID devices to corrupt that right and I decry it.

 

Your implication that you are more honest than someone wishing to maintain their privacy is without foundation. We have many people - notably abused women and children - who's privacy is paramount to protecting life and limb.

 

Everyone has the right to mind their own business.

[IDMclean]

Not when that business interacts with other's business. At that junction, it goes from your own business to our own business. Hence the idea of Stakeholders. Which essentially is what the Government, and the Society is. Stakeholders in our future, and our childrens future.

[Zythryn]

First, the US Constitution guarantees the right to privacy without regard to any reason a person may assert it. People can, and are, using these RFID devices to corrupt that right and I decry it.

 

Does that mean that if I walk down the street, and consider that someone looking at me is invading my privacy, they are breaking the rights granted by the Constitution?

 

Actually, RFID chips are most definately not an invasion of privacy, they can't be. They are simply a medium for the information.

 

Imagine a store hires someone to follow you after you leave showing a plackard announcing your purchase. Would that be an invasion of privacy? If so, should we outlaw plackards?

 

I do believe that the information that is allowed to be stored on RFID chips should be restricted. But I don't think the RFID itself is a problem.

[Cedars]

Since when is your middle name(s) not a part of your real name?

 

I make no assumption. You yourself stated you dont (normally) put this information out there because of personal security. The context of this thread is about losing your security without making that choice yourself via RFID. I dont assume I have control over it, rather I am horrified that it is not better protected and so out of my control.

 

 

You live in a society, and that society maintains information on you based on fullfillment of trust issues. Without that information, you or any other person could do what they wish and could not be tracked down and brought to justice.

 

Theres a big difference between the police coming to get me via my land asssessment record and EasyCleanCarpet company bothering me at home with salesmen, via the telephone, or via the mail trying to foist more dollars from my pocketbook. If I need my carpets cleaned I can look the various companys up in multiple medias. There is no 'free speech' issue, they can advertise for my dollar that way. They can also bombard my mailbox via mass mailings that go to every mailbox in my neighborhood, I get those too. As far as fullfillment of trust issues, thats how I maintain my credit line and isnt anyone elses business except between me and whoever I am applying for credit with. As ck pointed out its used by companies I have no interest in opening a credit line with to categorize me. Its fishing for me and I havent issued a license for that, so that means its poaching. I have no problem with companies asking me if I want to sign up while roaming their store (an anonymous face being treated the same way all anonymous shoppers are), I have a problem with them searching/maintaining databases BEFORE and WITHOUT asking me first.

 

 

Take this site of example. Your real name is here, embedded in this server. Now as much security as this server may or may not have, it is nothing when it comes to a peice of filled out paper, with the right stamp.

 

Actually my real name is not embedded in this server. I know your not very PC literate but all this site can find out for sure is who my ISP is. The system here MIGHT be able to get my email address also. My ISP will not reveal my identity without a court order according to the privacy policy I read before signing up with them. To get a court order involves probable cause. When I purchaced my computer one of the things I made sure of was when the op sys was loaded the info put in Name/address was not real. Name = Not Given (or something like that) 123 ABC Lane. I dont register products via internet connection, I print out the form or create a false Id when print out is not an option or just not register the product.

 

You can not keep hidden what a sneaky, cunning individual would others seek to find. I'm fairly sure if you wanted to, you could have discovered all the information provide simply by googling my screenname and associated information.

 

It has nothing to do with being sneaky or cunning, it has to do with corporations gathering information about me and making it public for anyone to purchace, without my permission. And what is making it worse is these things like RFID embedded in my drivers licenses with machines at (anyStoreName) that scan for this info that I would not willingly give them (as pointed out in the patent app I posted), and the move towards a cashless society.

 

Why shouldnt business be required to obtain my permission BEFORE creating a file/entry in my name?

 

The information that society keeps is for the benefit of the society, and what that means is public.

 

How is it beneficial to society (meaning people, not corporate profit)? Why is my personal privacy and security in my home of less value than corporate profit? You explain to me what value there is for people, in my data harvested via a D.L. scan of my name address and bd while I am checking out of a store?

 

Depending on what country you live in, the degree of privacy varies (at this point in time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy

 

There is no reason why US data cannot be held in a higher regard on the individual level.

 

I'm certain that given time and effort I could find ever little detail of your life. Could probably mess it up to, at least to a degree, and provided that you provided no resistence, then I suppose that I could get away with it. Not that I would, cause I happen to be a more honest person than most.

 

Not without knowing my name. And these RFID chips embedded within D.L., credit cards, etc take that ability to keep your name private away. And your not more honest than most your quite capable of dishonest behavior, by your own words. Sorry dude, but being "more honest than most people" cannot claim to have been "something of a former thief".

 

 

It has been ruled that freedom of religion implies the right to be free from religion. How can free speech have more right than freedom from speech in the information age, using the same arguement for freedom from religion? *Free speech being the arguement for invasion of privacy and this whole public data issue.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChoicePoint

 

Choicepoint Opt Out Form:

http://www.privacyatchoicepoint.com/optout_ext.html

 

 

Doing a bit of searching today, I discovered Minnesota has finally made it against the law for private companies to use the S.S. number as an ID number. Other changes include it being against the law to exchange s.s. numbers without permission. It appears this change was made in this years (2006) session. There is no doubt in my mind the change comes after the fact that theres been huge problems for 'we the people'.

 

Then there is the whole data access of the government via business. This information will be maintained in the government database for 40 years. Bummer for the babies who couldnt travel with their familys because of the accuracy of the exchange of data. Good thing is they will only be 41 or so when their data is removed from the database. /sarcasm

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6969799/

 

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

I am not exactly sure how the governement got around the 4th by soliciting info from private companys. Being as parts of this began in the early 90s one cannot blame 9/11 for all of it.

 

I have to wonder about your dismissive attitude towards privacy being the result of not having anything to lose yet and being young and inexperienced. Have you lost the hope of having something of value someday? Is that why you couldnt care less about faceless strangers having financial, real estate, vehical, and a host of other information about you?

[Turtle]

Does that mean that if I walk down the street, and consider that someone looking at me is invading my privacy, they are breaking the rights granted by the Constitution?

Certainly not; nor did I say or mean to imply such. Clearly, walking down the street is a public activity. :thumbs_do

[IDMclean]

Sorry dude' date=' but being "more honest than most people" cannot claim to have been "something of a former thief".[/quote']

 

This is a logical fallacy, in which it does not follow.

 

I can be (present tense) more honest than most people, while having been (past tense) a thief. It is not simply a matter of once a thief, always a thief, and once an honest person, always a honest person. Buddhism, all is change, all is transitory, and all is impermanent.

 

Actually my real name is not embedded in this server. I know your not very PC literate but all this site can find out for sure is who my ISP is.

So I would assume from what you have said then, that you have knowingly commited perjury in registering for Hypography? That you did not infact provide your real name to register. Well, good for you. Your paranoid. I would suggest psycho therapy.

 

Also, what this tells me is that I can not trust you.

 

I have to wonder about your dismissive attitude towards privacy being the result of not having anything to lose yet and being young and inexperienced.

Alright' date=' Cedar. This is riddled with all kinds of fallacies. Will start with appeal to age, and appeal to experience (ad ignorantiam).

 

Why is my personal privacy and security in my home of less value than corporate profit?

 

This one has two fold. One is it is a Strawman. I will explain how in a moment. Two is it is a loaded question. If I answered this question I would doom myself twice over. To answer this question, I would take upon myself an arguement that is not mine, and it would be taken in either way into light which I would not shed.

 

Have you lost the hope of having something of value someday?

 

This one would be Loaded question.

 

Is that why you couldnt care less about faceless strangers having financial' date=' real estate' date=' vehical, and a host of other information about you?[/quote'']

 

Same for this one, It presupposes a great deal, which I would not be caught touching with a ten foot pole.

 

Cedar, in short I trust in the good volition of society. That is all that I need to do. If I don't trust, and if others don't trust then the system falls apart.

 

"Innocent until proven guilty."

 

I'll see you when you work out your issues. Until then have fun. :thumbs_do

[Turtle]

So I would assume from what you have said then, that you have knowingly commited perjury in registering for Hypography? That you did not infact provide your real name to register. Well, good for you. Your paranoid. I would suggest psycho therapy.

 

 

There is no requirement, or request, to provide a name to register here. Not only are you wrong, you're out of line. :thumbs_do