RFID - Invasion of Privacy or good business

[Turtle]

Not only is some measure of caution due in regard to the government implementation push for RFID, I have to think it may make for a field-day for thieves.

Clever thieves may simply acquire portable readers & drive, bike, segway, etc. down the street & inventory the houses; from their lists, they steal on demand for customers placing orders. Once stolen, the RFID is replaced/destroyed/overwritten. (A group has just shown that RFID tags can be reprogrammed to carry a virus!:singer: )

I have attached a poll to this thread; please vote.:umbrella:

[Turtle]

Here is yet another RFID incarnation; this time they have added sensors so the 'box' senses & reports on its surroundings. Sssshhhhh...someone's talking...:D

Austrian-based Identec Solutions is a global provider of Intelligent Asset Management systems that use RFID to deliver real-time information on mobile resources -- vehicles, containers, racks, and other reusable transport materials -- to maximize control and value in all areas of the supply chain.

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/RFID_Based_Asset_Management_With_Innovative_Sensory_Technology.html

[alexander]

have you guys read about RFID viruses?

two guys from the university of amsterdam came up with a concept and a proof of concept creating an rfid virus that you put on a tag and execute when it gets scanned acting on the middleware (exploiting say either a buffer or using SQL injection to do damage ;) )

[TheBigDog]

I voted good only because great was not an option.

 

Bill

[Turtle]

I voted good only because great was not an option.

 

Bill

 

;) That prompted me to finally vote my own poll; I chose I need to learn more.

That said, as long as people are aware of the tag & it's purpose & as long as it is removed when its purpose is fullfilled, I have a suggestion of a use of them. Two words: baggage tags. A report on the news tonight claimed the airlines wasteoffuel lose 3 million pieces pollution of luggage every contrails year. They kept saying "3 million" lost, but never said what happened to them.

So I say, go ahead & chip the bags & make it expensive too. :eek2:

[alexander]

I voted good only because great was not an option.

and i voted bad only because 'I god damn @*&$%ing hate that *&^%er @*&$%ing piece of @*&$%ing $#!7 "tech@*&$%ingnology" for @*&$%ing even being remotely @*&$%ing designed for @*&$%ing piblic *&^%er @*&$%ing use' was not an option...

[Turtle]

I listened to some talk radio on the RFID question as it relates to animal husbandry. Apparently the government (not congress, but 'agencies') is now requiring all husbanded animals get chipped & the owners must register & file regular reports on the animals movements, health, visitors, etc.. The regulations apply whether you have a single goat, or a herd of them & all the information is going to a central data base along with satellite imaging of the animals location(s).

 

This aspect is starting to get peoples' attention now as the deadlines approach & people are finding out they face stiff fines for non-compliance. Here's an article & quote:

 

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,70716-0.html?tw=wn_index_1

 

One part of the plan is not voluntary: By 2009, farmers will be required to report the movement of any animal from the registered premises that commingles with other animals. Those who do not comply within 24 hours will face fees as high as $1,000 a day.

[InfiniteNow]

Part of the issue with cattle herders is the reinforcement provided by mad cow disease. In Europe, you can pretty much track each head of cattle from the moment it is born all the way to the supermarket (complete with what package it's in)... but in the States, we don't have any such tracking. The justification I heard (as pertains to the Wired article you posted) is that the US is severely behind the rest of the world in this, the ranchmen are avoiding change and showing some serious behavioral inertia, and health officials are petrified that mad cow will break out and containment will be nearly impossible because of our absense of any real tracking system.

 

Yay... BEEF! :singer:

[Turtle]

Part of the issue with cattle herders is the reinforcement provided by mad cow disease. In Europe, you can pretty much track each head of cattle from the moment it is born all the way to the supermarket (complete with what package it's in)... but in the States, we don't have any such tracking. The justification I heard (as pertains to the Wired article you posted) is that the US is severely behind the rest of the world in this, the ranchmen are avoiding change and showing some serious behavioral inertia, and health officials are petrified that mad cow will break out and containment will be nearly impossible because of our absense of any real tracking system.

 

Yay... BEEF! :phones:

 

As I read the article, RFID will do nothing to help with 'mad cow' disease because it is spread through the animals' feed, which is not tracked. (Yet)

By-the-by, inspite of stopping the feeding of cow parts to cows, they never stopped feeding it to chickens & pigs & they never stopped mixing chicken parts in the cow feed.

If you own but a single goat & take it anywhere, then you must fill out & turn in report forms to the government or face stiff fines. This is not restricted to farmers & ranchers; this is everyone with an animal!

I'm not pet owner or farmer, but if I were & knew about this I would either protest or get rid of the animals. More draconian laws from the government invading every aspect of people's lives yet again in my narrow view.:lol:

[InfiniteNow]

As I read the article, RFID will do

nothing

to help with 'mad cow' disease because it is spread through the animals' feed, which is not tracked. (Yet)

Ultimately, the point is if one cow gets it, you can track it and kill all those who were around it, and quarentine the area effected. This would help prevent it's spread because you know the exact source. I hadn't even though of tracking the feed this way, but that's another argument in it's favor.

 

Currently, if you were to pick up a package of beef at the local Piggly Wiggly and try to track it's origin, you'd pretty much hit a dead end at the processing plant... anything before there is unknown.

 

Hope you didn't think that I was saying RFID would be like some sort of prevention for it... that's just silly. :confused:

[Turtle]

Ultimately, the point is if one cow gets it, you can track it and kill all those who were around it, and quarentine the area effected. This would help prevent it's spread because you know the exact source. I hadn't even though of tracking the feed this way, but that's another argument in it's favor.

 

Tracking the contaminated feed alone seems sufficient to locate all potentially infected cows, wheras tracking the cows is only going to identify a single herd.

We haven't yet brought up the chips in people, and I see we have a thread on that which drifted into RFID chipping in general, so here's a bit on that. Seems Wisconsin is planning to outlaw chippin' peeps.

 

http://www.livescience.com/technology/060425_implant_law.html

[fissionchips303]

Anyone see that website created by security professionals showing the innate security risks of RFID?

 

I believe the demonstratiosn were ...

 

Stealing someone's identity off an RFID-enabled hotel swipe card

 

Stealing someone's gas card info and then using their information (sans card) at the pump to charge to their account

 

There were some others .. but, the point is, it's open for abuse. Especially when we're all forced to carry a "Real ID," the mandatory national ID card -- you know it will have an RFID chip.

 

My only question is, will it also have GPS tracking? ie: will "Big Brother" know precisely where you are at every waking moment, since it will be mandatory to carry a card? But, as far as I know, for it to have GPS tracking it would have to have some kind of power supply, so at least the RFID-enabled chips aren't readable by satellites ... yet.

 

I've also read that $20 bills are RFID-enabled. Why this would be, I have no idea. Perhaps it's just a random internet rumor...

 

I guess where I stand on it is that it is an inherently neutral technology, which can of course be used for the causes of good (increased productivity, etc.) -- BUT the vast implications for identity theft and privacy invasion are somewhat scary, if and when RFID does enter widespread mainstream consumer use. (eg: RFID-enabled refrigerators that tell you when you're out of milk)

 

Of course, RFID is a data-miner's dream! In some ways, it's just "digital tagging" or creating a virtual representation of real-life items, which is an unprecedented step towards uniting the physical and virtual worlds. In that respect, I can see the Kurzweillian-Utopian aspect, though I do not fully agree with this view. But, it is certainly an interesting development, worthy of discussion beyond the simple "good-vs-bad" binarisms...

 

Good topic! Looking forward to reading more posts on this highly relevant topic...

[Cedars]

I remember seeing a sales pitch for active RFID tags built into wristbands. They were being sold to an amusement park so parents could rent them and put them on their kids. The parents got a matching id card, and could use it to locate their kid in the park. As a parent I think that would be really cool because I could let the kids roam more freely without worrying about them getting lost in the park, while I could spend time enjoying different things.

 

Bill

 

Aaack! This alone is the most compelling reason why this should be BANNED!!!

 

Ok kiddies you go about and do whatever you want. Mommy and Daddy will be waiting here in the beer garden at park closing! Kisses and hugs.

Then their little monsters travel around creating havoc unattended.

 

Oh the horror!

[TheBigDog]

Aaack! This alone is the most compelling reason why this should be BANNED!!!

 

Ok kiddies you go about and do whatever you want. Mommy and Daddy will be waiting here in the beer garden at park closing! Kisses and hugs.

Then their little monsters travel around creating havoc unattended.

 

Oh the horror!

Beer garden? Imagine when Disney builds an Amsterdam section at Epcot Center!

 

Bill

[Cedars]

Beer garden? Imagine when Disney builds an Amsterdam section at Epcot Center!

 

Bill

 

We'd have to buy wristbands for several members if we ever wanted to find them again. :hihi:

[TheBigDog]

Welcome to Hypography fissionchips!

Anyone see that website created by security professionals showing the innate security risks of RFID?

 

I believe the demonstratiosn were ...

 

Stealing someone's identity off an RFID-enabled hotel swipe card

 

Stealing someone's gas card info and then using their information (sans card) at the pump to charge to their account

 

There were some others .. but, the point is, it's open for abuse. Especially when we're all forced to carry a "Real ID," the mandatory national ID card -- you know it will have an RFID chip.

You can steal someone's identity without RFID. The rumored capabilities of RFID are GREATLY exagerated. I have seen all sorts of BS on TV lately about them and it is all simply not possible. I have not seen anything indicating that a national ID card (still only a proposal) would have RFID embedded. If it does happen there will be security precautions around it to help prevent fraud.

My only question is, will it also have GPS tracking? ie: will "Big Brother" know precisely where you are at every waking moment, since it will be mandatory to carry a card? But, as far as I know, for it to have GPS tracking it would have to have some kind of power supply, so at least the RFID-enabled chips aren't readable by satellites ... yet.

If we get a national ID card it will not have GPS tracking.

I've also read that $20 bills are RFID-enabled. Why this would be, I have no idea. Perhaps it's just a random internet rumor...

Internet rumor. There are no RFID chips in money.

I guess where I stand on it is that it is an inherently neutral technology, which can of course be used for the causes of good (increased productivity, etc.) -- BUT the vast implications for identity theft and privacy invasion are somewhat scary, if and when RFID does enter widespread mainstream consumer use. (eg: RFID-enabled refrigerators that tell you when you're out of milk)

RFID has been around since WWII. It is catching on right now because Wal-Mart has mandated that their suppliers use RFID on materials that pass into their supply chain. Most of the applications for RFID that will be realized have not been conceived yet. But think beck if you will to the crazy stories about "Virtual Reality" that circulated in the early 90's. And how the whole world was going to change, and how nobody would ever leave the house because they could enjoy or do anything virtually. RFID is in the same place right now. Much hype and hysteria about things that will happen very very slowly and with far less capaility than is being advertised.

Of course, RFID is a data-miner's dream! In some ways, it's just "digital tagging" or creating a virtual representation of real-life items, which is an unprecedented step towards uniting the physical and virtual worlds. In that respect, I can see the Kurzweillian-Utopian aspect, though I do not fully agree with this view. But, it is certainly an interesting development, worthy of discussion beyond the simple "good-vs-bad" binarisms...

 

Good topic! Looking forward to reading more posts on this highly relevant topic...

It is a dataminer's dream. But it is like mining a landfill. Lots and lots of garbage. So much garbage that to believe what you are reading is worse than guessing. This technology simply is not the monster that everyone is making it out to be. It is a conspiracy theory predicting the future.

 

Bill

[Turtle]

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70793-0.html?tw=wn_index_3

 

The Clipped Tag shows that IBM is addressing privacy concerns, even those that are unreasonable, said Robert Atkinson, president of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, a pro-technology public policy think tank in Washington, D.C.

 

Seems IBM has a solution even though they claim there's no problem.;) :shrug: