Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Turtle]

I see that you have listed some positives but I question his "experience" since he is only a junior, first term Senator. I also think many of his proffered plans cannot simply be decreed by a President, they are promises that could only be implemented by Congress. It seems all of the Presidential candidates now want to make promises that couldn't keep if they wanted to. I wonder when the public will hold them accountable for this practice.

 

:D Mmmmm....what happened to positives for your pick as you suggested? Anyway, time will tell about the public and maybe all the interest in politics generated by this election cycle will carry over to the afterwards.

 

Just a quick experience check on Barack: How many people have been the President of the Harvard Law Review? :D

 

Harvard University' date=' which celebrated its 350th anniversary in 1986, is the oldest institution of higher learning in the United States. Founded 16 years after the arrival of the Pilgrims at Plymouth, the University has grown from nine students with a single master to an enrollment of more than 18,000 degree candidates, including undergraduates and students in 10 principal academic units. An additional 13,000 students are enrolled in one or more courses in the Harvard Extension School. Over 14,000 people work at Harvard, including more than 2,000 faculty. There are also 7,000 faculty appointments in affiliated teaching hospitals.

 

Seven presidents of the United States – John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Theodore and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Rutherford B. Hayes, John Fitzgerald Kennedy and George W. Bush – were graduates of Harvard. Its faculty have produced more than 40 Nobel laureates. [/quote']The Harvard Guide: The Early History of Harvard University

[Thunderbird]

Education

Undergraduate

Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA

Undergraduate, 1981-1983

 

Columbia University

B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations

Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

 

Graduate

Harvard Law School

J.D. magna *** laude 1988-1991

 

President, Harvard Law Review

 

Organizing and other work experience

1983-1984 Writer/Researcher for Business International Corporation. Helped companies understand overseas markets in the “Financing Foreign Operations” service and wrote for the “Business International Money Report”

1984-1985 Community Organizer for New York Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), promoting personal, community, and government reform at City College in Harlem.

1985-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side. While director grew the DCP staff from 1 to 13 and their budget from $70,000 to $400,000.

1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago. 1)

Teaching

1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. Taught courses on the due process and equal protection areas of constitutional law, on voting rights, and on racism and law. Helped develop a casebook on voting rights.

Law Practice

1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Represented non-profits and private individuals in urban development projects, voting rights cases, and wrongful firings. Filed major suit that forced the state of Illinois to enforce the Motor Voter Law and successfully argued a wrongful firing case before the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Illinois Senate 1996-2004

Chairman, Health and Human Services Committee

Spearheaded a successful bipartisan effort in Illinois to pass the broadest ethics-reform legislation in 25 years, and gained bipartisan support for his successful bills reforming death penalty interrogations and ending racial profiling by police. Worked with the Republican-led effort to reform welfare.

Also sponsored successful bills expanding tax credits and child-care subsidies for low-income working families, protecting overtime pay for workers, expanding health care for children, and providing job skills training for juveniles.

New York Times chart on Obama's legislative record in the Illinois Senate: The New York Times > U.S. > Image > Obama’s Record in the Illinois Senate

 

United States Senate 2004-present Sworn in 1/4/2005

Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions

Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs

Shares responsibility for the bipartisan Coburn-Obama Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, requiring full online disclosure of all entities receiving federal funds, and the bipartisan Lugar-Obama Cooperative Proliferation Detection, Interdiction Assistance, and Conventional Threat Reduction Act of 2006, deepening non-proliferation work with WMD and including surface-to-air missiles, land mines, and other weapons that may be used by terrorists. Also worked with Coburn to end the abuse of no-bid contracts in the wake of disasters.

Sponsored Bill Statistics

Number of sponsored bills: 70

Number of sponsored bills passed: 2

Number of co-sponsored bills: 404

Number of co-sponsored bills passed: 8

OpenCongress - Track bills, votes, senators, and representatives in the U.S. Congress (9/3/2008—-dankster keeps taking this out for some reason) (because it makes no sense at all. If you go to the NYT link or the Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 109th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) and Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 110th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) searches, you'll find that he's sponsored and cosponsored many times more bills than those stats list. They're ridiculously off.) PolitiFact | Obama sponsored a bill that became law

 

Bills / Amendments Passed

Barack Obama has introduced nearly 300 bills during his time in the U.S. Senate, and cosponsored close to 1,000 others. To see his legislative efforts, search the 109th Congress at Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 109th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress) and 110th Congress at Advanced Bill Summary and Status Search for the 110th Congress - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

S.AMDT.1041 to S.1082 To improve the safety and efficacy of genetic tests.

S.AMDT.3073 to H.R.1585 To provide for transparency and accountability in military and security contracting.

S.AMDT.3078 to H.R.1585 Relating to administrative separations of members of the Armed Forces for personality disorder.

S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

S.AMDT.524 to S.CON.RES.21 To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program supporting summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers.

S.AMDT.599 to S.CON.RES.21 To add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy.

S.AMDT.905 to S.761 To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.

S.AMDT.923 to S.761 To expand the pipeline of individuals entering the science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields to support United States innovation and competitiveness.

S.AMDT.924 to S.761 To establish summer term education programs.

S.AMDT.2519 to H.R.2638 To provide that one of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5 million or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee owes no past due Federal tax liability.

S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty.

S.AMDT.2658 to H.R.2642 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.

S.AMDT.2692 to H.R.2764 To require a comprehensive nuclear threat reduction and security plan.

S.AMDT.2799 to H.R.3074 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.

S.AMDT.3137 to H.R.3222 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.

S.AMDT.3234 to H.R.3093 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.

S.AMDT.3331 to H.R.3043 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.

Senate Resolutions Passed:

S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as “National Summer Learning Day”.

Other Bills Introduced

S.J.RES.23: A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.

S. 453: Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2007. The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2007 (H.R.1281), (S.453), would establish criminal penalties for acts of voter deception. Those who knowingly disseminate false information with the intention of keeping others from voting would face up to five years in prison under the legislation. The Act was sponsored by Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) and 60 cosponsors in the House, and Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and 15 cosponsors in the Senate. (20 Cosponsors)

S. 2030: A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require reporting relating to bundled contributions made by persons other than registered lobbyists. (1 Cosponsor)

S. 2111: Positive Behavior for Effective Schools Act. A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to allow State educational agencies, local educational agencies, and schools to increase implementation of early intervention services, particularly school-wide positive behavior supports. (3 Cosponsors)

S. 2066: Back to School: Improving Standards for Nutrition and Physical Education in Schools Act of 2007. A bill to establish nutrition and physical education standards for schools.

S. Con. Res. 46: A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month

S. 2044: Independent Contractor Proper Classification Act of 2007. A bill to provide procedures for the proper classification of employees and independent contractors, and for other purposes. (6 Cosponsors)

S. 2519: Contracting and Tax Accountability Act of 2007. A bill to prohibit the awarding of a contract or grant in excess of the simplified acquisition threshold unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee has no seriously delinquent tax debts, and for other purposes.

S. 2433: Global Poverty Act of 2007. A bill to require the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day. (9 Cosponsors)

S. 2330: Veterans Homelessness Prevention Act. A bill to authorize a pilot program within the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development with the goal of preventing at-risk veterans and veteran families from falling into homelessness, and for other purposes. (1 Cosponsor)

FULL VOTING HISTORY

Barack Obama's Senate Voting Record

 

Sources

Milestones: Barack Obama -- The New York Times

Professor Obama was a listener, students say -- Chicago Sun-Times

An Obama Moment -- Geoffrey R. Stone at The Huffington Post

Detailed research into Obama and Clinton's bills that they have authored

Oxy Remembers "Barry" Obama '83

Andrew Sullivan lists major legislative accomplishments, and links to several other articles discussing Obama's record

TNR Online | The Agitator (1 of 5) (print)

OpenCongress - U.S. Congress - Sen. Barack Obama

[C1ay]

:D Mmmmm....what happened to positives for your pick as you suggested?

 

My pick is "None of the above". I've not seen enough positives from any of the candidates to support them.

 

Just a quick experience check on Barack: How many people have been the President of the Harvard Law Review?

 

I would certainly hope that we could get respondents with more government experience on their resume than "President of my School's Periodical" when soliciting applicants for President Of The United States.

[Thunderbird]

If you want to know Obama read this.... From PBS frontline, interviews of class mates at Harvard.

 

Why? What was it about him?

 

Barack, from the start, had a leadership style that was very embracing. He was clearly seen as a leader, but at the same time, he didn't put himself out as a leader. We had a lot of people who were pretty ambitious at the law school, people who had political ambition. They were not quiet in their political ambition and putting themselves out as leaders.

 

That wasn't Barack. He had a very quiet, yet very calm presence. And his leadership style was such that people were drawn to him and they embraced him as a leader, and they put him forward as a leader. ... It's personality, but it's also a function of his experience as a community organizer. As a community organizer, you are not the person who's out in front. You want the community to be out in front. You want the community to be the ones who are voicing the concerns and who are the leaders. …

 

 

 

More...

 

FRONTLINE: the choice 2008: obama: harvard law days | PBS

[REASON]

My pick is "None of the above". I've not seen enough positives from any of the candidates to support them.

 

I would certainly hope that we could get respondents with more government experience on their resume than "President of my School's Periodical" when soliciting applicants for President Of The United States.

 

What qualifications, education, experience, beliefs, character, communications skills, political orientation, and vision in a presidential candidate would you consider worthy of your support?

 

Just curious.

[Turtle]

My pick is "None of the above". I've not seen enough positives from any of the candidates to support them.

 

 

I would certainly hope that we could get respondents with more government experience on their resume than "President of my School's Periodical" when soliciting applicants for President Of The United States.

 

Damned if ya do & damned if ya don't I guess. Not participating is certainly a form of participation. :D Are you suggesting we don't vote at all then? If you want to discount the oldest University in our great nation, and one of the most revered in the world, as a mere 'school', that's your right. You asked for an example of experience I admired in Barack & I gave one. :D

[freeztar]

My pick is "None of the above". I've not seen enough positives from any of the candidates to support them.

 

I'm with C1ay on this. It's a complete mockery any way you look at it. The more I look at Bob Barr, the less convinced I am. What am I left with?

 

It's a gigantic sham and it exposes the weakness of our system. Hopefully historians and scientists can set this mess straight. Otherwise, it's business as usual. :D

 

I'm going to vote, as my civic duty, but it is a vote of indignation.

[questor]

If we could agree on the type and size government we want, the foreign policy stance we want, the educational system we want, the economic system we want, perhaps we could pick a leader more to our liking. With the multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society we have now, how could anyone expect more than we have... a popularity contest with exorbitant, unfulfillable promises from both sides?

[Moontanman]

If we could agree on the type and size government we want, the foreign policy stance we want, the educational system we want, the economic system we want, perhaps we could pick a leader more to our liking. With the multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society we have now, how could anyone expect more than we have... a popularity contest with exorbitant, unfulfillable promises from both sides?

 

Unfortunately once you more than two people together agreeing on everything becomes difficult, the more people you have the more difficult it becomes to agree on anything and eventually it becomes impossible. a multi ethic multicultural society is almost a given everywhere in the world. Possibly a system of small space colonies might solve the problem. if the colonies could be made cheap enough every group, religion, club, and shouting society could have their own little world. Kinda like having a Faux Noise tuned to everyone.

[C1ay]

What qualifications, education, experience, beliefs, character, communications skills, political orientation, and vision in a presidential candidate would you consider worthy of your support?

 

I think a degreed individual should be a minimum in today's times, preferably someone with multiple degrees in different disciplines. I prefer some "executive" experience as perhaps a seasoned state Governor or CEO of a large corporation would have. Their beliefs (as in religious beliefs) should remain a mystery. Character should incorporate someone that is a team player but yet a strong leader and show a sense of duty to country. Communication should be effective, gracefully or not. I think perhaps that political orientation should remain as much a mystery as their political beliefs. Their vision should be for the advancement of the country and be free of promises they cannot personally keep in the executive office.

 

Are you suggesting we don't vote at all then?

 

No. Everyone should vote. Sometimes the correct choice is simply "None of the above". Write it in, write yourself in, write something in but vote for something. One does not have to limit themselves to the preselected list when there are no good alternatives on that list.

 

...perhaps we could pick a leader more to our liking.

 

That is not particularly a quality our leader needs to have. A good leader is one that can and will make unpopular decisions in the best interests of us all. It really doesn't matter if we like them or not and we shouldn't be using popularity as a quality in choosing someone to be a leader.

[Turtle]

I think a degreed individual should be a minimum in today's times, preferably someone with multiple degrees in different disciplines. I prefer some "executive" experience as perhaps a seasoned state Governor or CEO of a large corporation would have. Their beliefs (as in religious beliefs) should remain a mystery. Character should incorporate someone that is a team player but yet a strong leader and show a sense of duty to country. Communication should be effective, gracefully or not. I think perhaps that political orientation should remain as much a mystery as their political beliefs. Their vision should be for the advancement of the country and be free of promises they cannot personally keep in the executive office.

 

Roger all that. Among my speeding thoughts as I went to meet up with Sandman last night was, "how the hell did this political party business start in the first place!?" :) It sure isn't in the Constitution. :) (I'll be reading up a bit on this today. The topic of another thread perhaps?)

Then in a crazy twist, what is in the Constituion is that religion and government are to be separate and yet religion is many folks keystone in electing a President. :( I also noticed last night as the flickering box played local stumpers rags, that the issue of their religion never comes up. :(

 

T-minus 13 days and counting down....................... Maybe neither Obama or McCain will win and ol' man Nader will be a spoiler.

[REASON]

Here's an interesting article that takes a look at the differences between the two candidates on the issue of equal pay for equal work.

 

Apparently, John McCain believes that protecting corporate interests are more important than insuring that average citizens are treated fairly under the law and that their civil rights are upheld.

 

Why am I not surprised?

 

Obama, McCain views of unequal-pay case are revealing -- Newsday.com

 

Roe v. Wade wasn't the only important Supreme Court case mentioned during the final presidential debate at Hofstra University last week. The candidates also had a tense exchange over a less famous case, Ledbetter v. Goodyear, which involved a woman named Lilly Ledbetter, who received unequal pay at her job for years without realizing it.

 

The discussion of Ledbetter's battle against discrimination reveals a great deal about each candidate's commitment to protecting the legal rights of ordinary Americans.

 

Sen. Barack Obama mentioned the Ledbetter case as an example of how an out-of-touch judiciary can erode important civil rights and legal protections, like those that make pay discrimination illegal. Ledbetter broke down barriers by becoming the first female supervisor in her section at Goodyear Tire and Rubber Co. in Gadsden, Ala. She served in that position for many years before making the startling discovery that she was being paid far less than her male counterparts simply because she was a woman. After an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission investigation ruled in her favor, Ledbetter filed a pay discrimination lawsuit, which she won at the trial level.

 

But what should have been a significant victory for Ledbetter soon turned into a miscarriage of justice when the Supreme Court reversed this decision, finding that because Goodyear had successfully hidden its first act of unequal pay for 180 days - in her case, it was actually many years - Ledbetter had lost the right to sue.....

 

.....As Obama noted, Congress attempted to correct the ruling with the Fair Pay Act. This pay equity legislation was designed to clarify that the statute of limitations runs for 180 days from the time when a person first becomes aware of the discriminatory act. It passed the House but failed in the Senate, demonstrating that it's not just the judiciary that's out of touch with the needs of ordinary Americans, many of our legislators are, too.

 

Sen. John McCain argued that Ledbetter was decided properly and dismissed the pay equity bill, on which he did not vote, as a "trial lawyers' dream." But is it a trial lawyer's dream, or is it a nightmare for ordinary people who find themselves on the wrong end of corporate abuse?

 

The critical question is: Which result would have best promoted the interests of average Americans? The answer favors Obama's point of view: The Supreme Court's ruling in Ledbetter, and Congress' failure to correct that decision, deprives Americans of the right to go to court to seek justice when they are harmed by the artfully concealed illegal acts of others. Under no reasonable interpretation does that constitute justice.....

[C1ay]

Apparently, John McCain believes that protecting corporate interests are more important than insuring that average citizens are treated fairly under the law and that their civil rights are upheld.

 

That's a good example of spin. McCain did not say the case was or was not decided fairly, only that it was decided properly. If it was in fact decided according to law then he's simply made a truthful statement. Fairly or not, can you show the case was or was not judged according to the law as it's written?

[REASON]

That's a good example of spin. McCain did not say the case was or was not decided fairly, only that it was decided properly. If it was in fact decided according to law then he's simply made a truthful statement. Fairly or not, can you show the case was or was not judged according to the law as it's written?

 

From what is stated in the article, you are correct that he simply agreed that the Supreme Court had ruled properly based on the current law, even though it had overturned lower court rulings based on their interpretation of the law surrounding the 180 day notification requirement.

 

But as the legislature attempted to correct the law in an effort to achieve fairness by allowing the 180 day statute of limitations to begin once the employee becomes aware of the transgression, the article states that McCain neglected to support it, and dismissed it as "a trial lawyers dream." While there may have been other parts of the bill that were overreaching, he hasn't clarified that as a reason for not supporting it. This is the basis for my comment above as it appears that he is siding with big buisiness as opposed to equal pay for equal work.

 

I welcome a further explanation for why he chose not to support the Fair Pay Act.

[Zythryn]

I must agree with Reason, for the exact reason (no pun intended) stated.

When using the word 'properly' it appears McCain was using it as 'the finding of the court was correct' rather than 'the court served their purpose as the judicial branch of government'.

[C1ay]

But as the legislature attempted to correct the law in an effort to achieve fairness by allowing the 180 day statute of limitations to begin once the employee becomes aware of the transgression, the article states that McCain neglected to support it, and dismissed it as "a trial lawyers dream." While there may have been other parts of the bill that were overreaching, he hasn't clarified that as a reason for not supporting it. This is the basis for my comment above as it appears that he is siding with big buisiness as opposed to equal pay for equal work.

 

I welcome a further explanation for why he chose not to support the Fair Pay Act.

 

So, you are actually making an assumption that you haven't researched? That's spin!

 

FWIW, McCain did not vote on the bill at all. A Motion of Cloture was rejected in the Senate with a vote of 56 Yays to 42 Nays with 2 not voting, including McCain. That does not mean the bill was killed, only that it will not be voted on without debate. From this you cannot read anything into McCain's views on the legislation as written.

[C1ay]

I must agree with Reason, for the exact reason (no pun intended) stated.

When using the word 'properly' it appears McCain was using it as 'the finding of the court was correct' rather than 'the court served their purpose as the judicial branch of government'.

 

FWIW, a proper ruling by the court is one that's consistent with the law as written and it is the purpose of the judicial branch to rule according to the rule of law. It is not the court's job to decide what is or isn't fair and McCain made no implication that it had. His statement is being 'assumed' to mean what his opponents want it to mean whether he actually meant it that way or not.