Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Racoon]

I thought Palin's speech was terrible.

Everytime she made a statement I thought "Back it up with any shred of logic and proof"

She's a pretty face, and that takes some heat off McCain, but it doesn't cut the mustard

 

She said Obama wants "bigger governemnt" :

Hello, Bush Jr. expanded all his executive powers and privledges beyond belief.

 

She said Obama wants to raise taxes:

The same Republican Party that is supposed to be 'FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE' only turned the biggest budget surplus into the most insurmountable DEBT the planet has ever seen within 8 years.

 

She went off on John McCain being some war hero.

He wasn't.

He was shot down and captured.

He didn't do a F*ng thing really.. Kinda' like Bush Jr...

(But Ron Paul is a whack job who only happened to be an airflight surgeon who operated on and saved hundreds of soldiers B))

 

I was remembering my public speaking class I took and was very critical of Palin's speech.

There was no substance to it.

It was Fluff and Applause from an anxious and eager audience.

 

Obama is gonna' run circles around these two.

[Thunderbird]

On top of all that she thinks creationism is science and thinks it should be taught in school.

[7DSUSYstrings]

I only caught part of Palin's speech, but other than Juliani giving Obama some overkill negativity, I have been impressed by the repubs approach. Palin will come in unexperienced, just as Obama would, but she'll be trained by a former vet. If once a POW that made it back, I find it tough to criticize McCain.

 

Obama is very intelligent and I disagree with Juliani that he never led anything. He has made some lives better in Illinois, but I don't see enough to vote for him.

 

McCain will keep us involved in the Middle East wars and now with Russia getting itchy trigger fingers and the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists kicking the clock up two more minutes to 11:55pm, I'd want a military mind in office.

 

The innovations will flourish more in times of war than in times of US peace. This is a tough recommendation for me to make because I'm an old hippy and flower child promoting peace. I'm also a democrat. Even with alternative energy sources, one of which I'm exploring, we will still need oil. I prefer a person who will continue to fight for American oil supplies along with the innovations.

 

I reiterate that Obama is talented, but I don't feel comfortable with the idea of him being in the oval office. We need someone who can rid the country of the KKK, the Weathermen, the Black Panthers, the Latin Kings, etc. before ethnic differences will survive in so much absolute power. It's bad enough that nuclear war could be brewing, I don't waqnt to allow the possibility of a racial civil war here in America.

 

Dr. C.

[jackson33]

"A Political Star was born", Wallace after the speech. Whether you liked that one speech, whether it was written and spoke to satisfy you personally or whether you personally feel it was accurate in content....That one speech probably turned a McCain win into a McCain/Palin landslide, no doubt establishing women as a REAL force in American politics.

 

Racoon; Please, George W Bush is not and can not ever run for President again in his life. While I disagree entirely with your personal views of his tenure, historians will judge the decisions he did make and for the reasons made. I suggest, those judgments will not satisfy you...

 

Obama, his handlers or the party itself literally manhandled their parties system to get one person the nomination, OVER who I feel was their overwhelming choice, clear to the end of the primaries. Topped it off with the dismissal of that person as a viable VP pick or any true recognition of her personal success or that of her husband in his administration. The Democratic party was IMO, hijacked.

 

McCain, IS a War Hero, was influential to hundreds of fellow captives and from all indications should have died while a prisoner of war, been reduced to a life of insignificant relevance from those injuries or at best, a loyal follower of his chosen party. He did none of this, following his long heritage in our military/political history and at the age of 71/72, run for the number one office. He may not be the War Hero many perceive, to you, but by any standard, he most certainly is an AMERICAN HERO.

 

Doc; I will address this to you. Obama may or may not be a good or even honest person, I don't really care. But we have a couple self grandiose books and his word on just who he is or how he got there.

 

He is a Graduate of 'Constitutional Law' from Harvard Law School, at the age of 30 (dropped his credentials - 2002) having never argued a case and lectured at Chicago University for TWELVE years. There should be an implied knowledge of American History someplace, yet can you give me one instance where any of this history or understanding of the Constitution is obvious.

 

Thunderbird; Understand...I am agnostic and DO NOT practice any religion or have I ever.

 

However the American People are a religious group and for all practical purposes believe in a GOD and the creation of all things, in some manner. This going well back before there was an America, even possibly a reason America was populated and formed. They have never elected any person other than a self professed Christan and won't in the foreseeable future.

 

Public k-12 education is already down to about half the total today and creation education available in all religious, most private and an indeterminable number of group/home schooling and optional in all higher educational institutions.

[Moontanman]

As for the God connection Palin thinks the Iraqi war is gods will ( I never realized Bush was god!) and the Alaska Pipeline is also gods will so we better get behind this woman, she has a direct line to god! Maybe her virgin daughter is carrying the second coming.

[Thunderbird]

"Thunderbird; Understand...I am agnostic and DO NOT practice any religion or have I ever.

 

However the American People are a religious group and for all practical purposes believe in a GOD and the creation of all things, in some manner. This going well back before there was an America, even possibly a reason America was populated and formed. They have never elected any person other than a self professed Christan and won't in the foreseeable future.

 

Public k-12 education is already down to about half the total today and creation education available in all religious, most private and an indeterminable number of group/home schooling and optional in all higher educational institutions.

You missed the point.

 

Public schools are not funded by taxpayer's to teach religious views, they are funded to teach science so our kids can keep up, which is what she is supposed to do, keep up. She should know that the state and federal courts have ruled that creationism is not science. Its not a question of Is the country religious, or if she is religious? Its simply a question of being competent enough to lead.

[jackson33]

You missed the point.

 

Public schools are not funded by taxpayer's to teach religious views, they are funded to teach science so our kids can keep up, which is what she is supposed to do, keep up. She should know that the state and federal courts have ruled that creationism is not science. Its not a question of Is the country religious, or if she is religious? Its simply a question of being competent enough to lead.

 

Briefly; The US Department of Education 2008 Budget was less than 60 Billion (of a near 3 trillion total budget) and mandated to spend about 13 Billion, the smallest budget for any department. Grants paid to the States are for other than curriculum, most concerned with mandates imposed by the Federal.

 

Most, if not all States or the school district itself choose the curriculum and by way of School/Property or some special tax, pay 98% of the per student cost in Public Schools. In your state you have the right to voice an opinion on these problems, but most states, short of US Law, are not obliged to teach or not teach anything.

 

If 80% of Alaskans feel she is doing a good job as Governor (highest rating of all 50), I should be the last person to judge their opinion. From those that do such things, the overwhelming opinion voiced is she is as qualified, if not more so than the Democratic Nominee. Ms. Clinton and a host of Democrats are indicating she is qualified, but her ideology on issues are flawed. Republican, especially the Conservatives have jumped on board what was perceived, a sinking ship.

 

Moon; I didn't hear 'god's will' in the speech or have I seen anything YET to indicate that, but my Mom, my Grandmother's and many people tend to blame or refuse to blame many things on their faith.

 

As for religion in government, I strongly oppose realizing however that the people/electorate are going to be influenced. Its then my opinion the system (separation) will work...

[Zythryn]

Where she lost much respect I had for her was when she said she 'told congress no-thanks for the bridge to nowhere'

No, not really. She (the state) TOOK the MONEY. Now I am sure there were better uses for it, but trying to say you are fiscally responsible by refusing the 'bridge to nowhere' in one breath and then taking the money in the next....

 

Politics as usual:(

[Zythryn]

Oops, seems Palin was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it:

 

But Palin was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

 

The Alaska governor campaigned in 2006 on a build-the-bridge platform, telling Ketchikan residents she felt their pain when politicians called them "nowhere." They're still feeling pain today in Ketchikan, over Palin's subsequent decision to use the bridge funds for other projects -- and over the timing of her announcement, which they say came in a pre-dawn press release that seemed aimed at national news deadlines.

from:Palin touts stance on 'Bridge to Nowhere,' doesn't note flip-flop: Gov. Sarah Palin | adn.com

[Moontanman]

Moon; I didn't hear 'god's will' in the speech or have I seen anything YET to indicate that, but my Mom, my Grandmother's and many people tend to blame or refuse to blame many things on their faith.

 

As for religion in government, I strongly oppose realizing however that the people/electorate are going to be influenced. Its then my opinion the system (separation) will work...

 

I'm not sure if it was in the speech, it was being discussed on the news this morning.

[Turtle]

I have been watching the RNC the last 2 nights on PBS, and it is no DNC. Of course I suppose the Republicans will say it's because they were respecting the hurricane, but in truth McCain couldn't deliver an 80,000+ crowd if his life depended on it.

 

Palin & McCain's economics are Reagan's trickle-down economics; ah yes...the days of Iran-Contra and record deficits. I noticed no one is bragging on Nixon.

 

I think McCains 'maverick' angle as well as his temper are PTSD. People say he's a hero because he stayed behind at the Hanoi Hilton, but he really did it because doing otherwise he'd be criticized when he got home for not doing the military, honorable thing. It was no choice and it's not something that qualifies anyone for the presidency.

 

If you want to know how Obama leads, look at his last 2 years running a successful primary campaign.

 

Mind you I have voted both sides of the isle & down the middle, but I am old and it's time for the pendulum to swing the other way before I croak.

[jackson33]

Oops, seems Palin was for the bridge to nowhere before she was against it:

 

But Palin was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

 

from:Palin touts stance on 'Bridge to Nowhere,' doesn't note flip-flop: Gov. Sarah Palin | adn.com

 

The Alaska Senator Ted Stevens 'Bridge to nowhere', would probably have had to be accepted by Palin, liked or not. She was representing Alaska as was Stevens and some cooperation would be expected.

 

Moon; I could have missed, but in three hearings of the speech I have not heard , nor have I heard any reports to 'god's will'...

 

Discussed is another subject and whats discussed in politics, to me resembles garbage from both or all sides. I don't believe Obama is currently Muslim, think his offered birth certificate is a fake or his three step mothers or 6-7 or 8 half siblings matter to his personal creditability. I do believe he a walking empty suit, incapable of decision and not a qualified person to run for, much less be the president of the US. IMO if anyone truly likes what Obama says they maybe should write in a vote for David Axlerod...

 

Turtle; Today, I will disagree that the 'Republican Ticket McCain/Palin' could not draw 80k or possibly draw a couple hundred thousand with a little help. In fact, if Rush Limbaugh really wanted to help his apparent 'Conservative' movement, his assistance alone would draw either and any place or anytime he and they could arrange this would fill any capacity. He drew that 80k to a 'Bake Sale'.

 

Reagan ran on reducing government, trickle down was for the tax breaks. He could not reduce spending, for what ever reason, actually increased government size. Simultaniously, even then McCain was opposed to excess spending and has been since.

 

Again, if you like the way Obama's campaign was run, write in Axlerod for president. I will admit it was masterfully run and taking down the Clinton Machine unexpected...but in the end it will have cost the Democratic Party an election many thought impossible. I also think 'coat tails' are now in play and Congress may be up for grabs.

 

I am no doubt older than you, expect also to croak soon, but this Palin choice and her acceptance by so many otherwise disgrunted American's leads me to believe the pendulum has just swung in the right direction.

[Moontanman]

The Alaska Senator Ted Stevens 'Bridge to nowhere', would probably have had to be accepted by Palin, liked or not. She was representing Alaska as was Stevens and some cooperation would be expected.

 

Moon; I could have missed, but in three hearings of the speech I have not heard , nor have I heard any reports to 'god's will'...

 

Discussed is another subject and whats discussed in politics, to me resembles garbage from both or all sides. I don't believe Obama is currently Muslim, think his offered birth certificate is a fake or his three step mothers or 6-7 or 8 half siblings matter to his personal creditability. I do believe he a walking empty suit, incapable of decision and not a qualified person to run for, much less be the president of the US. IMO if anyone truly likes what Obama says they maybe should write in a vote for David Axlerod...

 

Turtle; Today, I will disagree that the 'Republican Ticket McCain/Palin' could not draw 80k or possibly draw a couple hundred thousand with a little help. In fact, if Rush Limbaugh really wanted to help his apparent 'Conservative' movement, his assistance alone would draw either and any place or anytime he and they could arrange this would fill any capacity. He drew that 80k to a 'Bake Sale'.

 

Reagan ran on reducing government, trickle down was for the tax breaks. He could not reduce spending, for what ever reason, actually increased government size. Simultaniously, even then McCain was opposed to excess spending and has been since.

 

Again, if you like the way Obama's campaign was run, write in Axlerod for president. I will admit it was masterfully run and taking down the Clinton Machine unexpected...but in the end it will have cost the Democratic Party an election many thought impossible. I also think 'coat tails' are now in play and Congress may be up for grabs.

 

I am no doubt older than you, expect also to croak soon, but this Palin choice and her acceptance by so many otherwise disgrunted American's leads me to believe the pendulum has just swung in the right direction.

 

See post #10

[jackson33]

Just in; That 'just everyday hockey mom' from Alaska, three days into national politics, drew 37 Million households (according to Nielson's) just shy of Obama, the hype and 18 months of campaigning 38 Million...

[Thunderbird]

The fact is.... historically the country does better economically under a democratic president. look it up.

[Moontanman]

Just in; That 'just everyday hockey mom' from Alaska, three days into national politics, drew 37 Million households (according to Nielson's) just shy of Obama, the hype and 18 months of campaigning 38 Million...

 

Gee, I guess that means she's a better person? Or maybe it just means she is a better circus act?

 

Eat excrement, a Billion flies can't be wrong :phones:

[Turtle]

...

Turtle; Today, I will disagree that the 'Republican Ticket McCain/Palin' could not draw 80k or possibly draw a couple hundred thousand with a little help. In fact, if Rush Limbaugh really wanted to help his apparent 'Conservative' movement, his assistance alone would draw either and any place or anytime he and they could arrange this would fill any capacity. He drew that 80k to a 'Bake Sale'.

...

Again, if you like the way Obama's campaign was run, write in Axlerod for president. I will admit it was masterfully run and taking down the Clinton Machine unexpected...

...

I am no doubt older than you, expect also to croak soon, but this Palin choice and her acceptance by so many otherwise disgrunted American's leads me to believe the pendulum has just swung in the right direction.

 

As to my age, you assume facts not in evidence. :hyper: As to McCain's draw, assumes facts not in evidence. :D As to Axlerod, disengenuous strawman. As to masterfully run campaign by Barack, I couldn't agree more.:hihi:

 

I keep hearing the R's clasify Obama as elitist, presumably because he went to Harvard. Never mind his background and how he got there, and never mind McCain's abysmal college education. I was curious and went hunting.

 

I'm a strong Obama supporter, but I do know that McCain is an Academy grad, Annapolis to be specific. In the navy, you have to be an officer to be a pilot and in the navy you have to have a college education to be an officer. So McCain needed a college degree to do what he did in the navy.

 

He graduated from Annapolis in 1958. He was ranked 894th out of 899 midshipmen(classmates) but it was mostly due to disciplinary reasons as his academic record was above average. ...

Does John McCain have a college education? - Yahoo! Answers

 

I think it was Fred Thompson last night that bragged on Mcain and his dad's terrible record of infractions in the Naval Academy. Uhhhh...that's leadership quality huh? :naughty:

 

Up to 4 cents now. :D :phones: :)