Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[questor]

Why is it fair to rob one man who has worked for his money to pay someone who has not earned it? Sure, you're using the government as the robber so you will feel better, but it's robbery just the same.The wealthy man has not stolen from the poor man, how does the transference of money even things up? What does this do to society? It makes some people think they deserve something for nothing. It gives people a reason for not working. It promotes class envy. It is a win-lose situation. It is amoral and if carried to it's conclusion causes societal breakdown. Why would it not be better to encourage all people to get a better education and work harder so they would not have to rob the rich? They may not all become wealthy, but at least they would contribute to society rather than be recipients of stolen goods. Wouldn't they have a better feeling of self-worth than living off anothers earnings? Why not encourage each person to contribute something of value if he is to receive something of value? Wouldn't that make the transfer of wealth more palatable if the recipient had to do SOMETHING to receive the fruits of others? Wouldn't the wealthy be more likely to want to share with those they felt are trying to help themselves rather than being told they are greedy and selfish? Which way is the moral way?

[Zythryn]

Questor, this 'spreading the wealth around' is nothing new. We have been doing it for many many years.

Do you believe McCain is going to stop 'spreading the wealth around'?

[Moontanman]

Why is it fair to rob one man who has worked for his money to pay someone who has not earned it? Sure, you're using the government as the robber so you will feel better, but it's robbery just the same.The wealthy man has not stolen from the poor man, how does the transference of money even things up? What does this do to society? It makes some people think they deserve something for nothing. It gives people a reason for not working. It promotes class envy. It is a win-lose situation. It is amoral and if carried to it's conclusion causes societal breakdown. Why would it not be better to encourage all people to get a better education and work harder so they would not have to rob the rich? They may not all become wealthy, but at least they would contribute to society rather than be recipients of stolen goods. Wouldn't they have a better feeling of self-worth than living off anothers earnings? Why not encourage each person to contribute something of value if he is to receive something of value? Wouldn't that make the transfer of wealth more palatable if the recipient had to do SOMETHING to receive the fruits of others? Wouldn't the wealthy be more likely to want to share with those they felt are trying to help themselves rather than being told they are greedy and selfish? Which way is the moral way?

 

Questor, I asked you this once but you never answered. I think it's an important question, how much of our taxes goes to people who will not work and are just living off the public dole? What percentage of the money we all send to the government actually goes to benifiting people who will not work? How much of our taxes are paid out to others by this horrific spread the wealth idea? How much money is being robbed from me to given to someone else? If it's really as much as you seem to be insinuating then I for one would be pissed big time. 10% 20% 50% 90% HOW MUCH IS IT!

[Pyrotex]

If taking money from the people who earned it, and spending ANY of it on those who didn't earn it, is "redistributing wealth" and "socialism", then ANY government that gets any tax revenue at all is "redistributing wealth" and is therefore "socialist". So what??? ;)

 

My taxes go to build and maintain the roads. I can't get to work or visit my family without roads. I like roads. Why should I fuss and rant over paying taxes for roads? Why should I fuss and rant over MY money going to ditch diggers and cement smoothers who may not even have a high school diploma? I get roads!

 

I also get an army to protect me, and firepeople to keep me safe, and diplomats to prevent Bosnia from killing me when I visited Europe once, and national parks that still look like they did when I was a kid, and rivers I can fish out of. I get to live in a world largely free of poop, because my taxes went to build waste facilities. I can breathe (usually) because there's some agency that makes the car makers clean up their cars.

 

Not a bad deal. Really. And to think, all it takes is about 10% of my gross income, which is "redistributed". Hey! That's not such a bad thing, is it?

[Thunderbird]

Along with railing genitic research as a wast of tax payer money, she also critisized Obama on federal ear marks as a unfair distubution of wealth. Against earmarks is she ? Guess which state gets the most in federal earmarks per capita...Alaska. ;)

[questor]

Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW. I'll tell you how to get a ball park figure. Go to google, enter welfare expenditures usa. Then go to entitlement programs usa, then go to government subsidies usa, then go to grants usa, then try to figure out any other giveaways you can think of and add them all up. Find out how many taxpayers there are in the usa. Divide the expenditures by the number of taxpayers and get a number. Factor in the largest welfare expense of all..the federal government. Well, maybe use only 15% of government salaries as a number, because this is about the amount of deadwood the government carries on its payroll. I guess you won't be able to determine the amount of money government wastes because they do oversight AFTER the mistakes are made rather than BEFORE. Get back to me and we'll talk. By the way, all subsidies do not go to the poor.

[Turtle]

Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW. I'll tell you how to get a ball park figure. Go to google, enter welfare expenditures usa. Then go to entitlement programs usa, then go to government subsidies usa, then go to grants usa, then try to figure out any other giveaways you can think of and add them all up. Find out how many taxpayers there are in the usa. Divide the expenditures by the number of taxpayers and get a number. Factor in the largest welfare expense of all..the federal government. Well, maybe use only 15% of government salaries as a number, because this is about the amount of deadwood the government carries on its payroll. I guess you won't be able to determine the amount of money government wastes because they do oversight AFTER the mistakes are made rather than BEFORE. Get back to me and we'll talk. By the way, all subsidies do not go to the poor.

 

No Questor. ;) The onus is on you to do all that research. You made the claim, you back it up.

[Thunderbird]

Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW. I'll tell you how to get a ball park figure. Go to google, enter welfare expenditures usa. Then go to entitlement programs usa, then go to government subsidies usa, then go to grants usa, then try to figure out any other giveaways you can think of and add them all up. Find out how many taxpayers there are in the usa. Divide the expenditures by the number of taxpayers and get a number. Factor in the largest welfare expense of all..the federal government. Well, maybe use only 15% of government salaries as a number, because this is about the amount of deadwood the government carries on its payroll. I guess you won't be able to determine the amount of money government wastes because they do oversight AFTER the mistakes are made rather than BEFORE. Get back to me and we'll talk. By the way, all subsidies do not go to the poor.

 

Why is Pallin the most Popular Governor in the US ? She is very good at redistributing wealth from rich hard working oil companies and giving the money to people that never worked for it. ;)

 

-- Over the opposition of oil companies, Republican Gov. Sarah Palin and Alaska's Legislature last year approved a major increase in taxes on the oil industry - a step that has generated stunning new wealth for the state as oil prices soared.

-- Alaska collected an estimated $6 billion from the new tax during the fiscal year that ended June 30, according to the Alaska Oil and Gas Association. That helped push the state's total oil revenue - from new and existing taxes, as well as royalties - to more than $10 billion, double the amount received last year.

-- Some of that new cash will end up in the wallets of Alaska's residents.

-- Palin's administration last week gained legislative approval for a special $1,200 payment to every Alaskan to help cope with gas prices, which are among the highest in the country.

-- That check will come on top of the annual dividend of about $2,000 that each resident could receive this year from an oil-wealth savings account

 

 

 

Alaska Permanent Fund was paying out something below $2000 yet it's now reported that it's up to $3900. Yeah, I know. Do the math. A family of 5 receiving nearly $20,000 for doing absolutely nothing. Of course, this Republican-dominated state would decry a low-income minority getting welfare while they hypocritically rake it all in off of something that no other U.S. state receives

[questor]

Let me repeat for those who didn't understand...

''Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW''

[Turtle]

Let me repeat for those who didn't understand...

''Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW''

 

Ditto for your understanding: LOOK IT UP. :applause: Seriously. You are in violation of the site rules if you don't. You made the claim; either retract it or support it with acceptable sources.

 

Meanwhile, MCCain continues to slide and Obama to ride*. :hihi: Regardless of what the conservatives, neo-conservatives, Republicans, GOP'ers, or any group opposing Obama as our next President whines about, We the People have had enough of it & We the People are going to elect Obama. Better get ready for that reaching across the isle maverickism that Johnny claims he knows how to do. ;)

 

*Rasmussen Reports: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

[questor]

Turtle, here is the question;

''Questor, I asked you this once but you never answered. I think it's an important question, how much of our taxes goes to people who will not work and are just living off the public dole? What percentage of the money we all send to the government actually goes to benifiting people who will not work? How much of our taxes are paid out to others by this horrific spread the wealth idea? How much money is being robbed from me to given to someone else? If it's really as much as you seem to be insinuating then I for one would be pissed big time. 10% 20% 50% 90% HOW MUCH IS IT!''

 

Here is the answer for the third time:

 

''Originally Posted by questor

Let me repeat for those who didn't understand...

''Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW'' ''

Do you need to consult someone on this?

[Turtle]

Turtle, here is the question;

''Questor, I asked you this once but you never answered. I think it's an important question, how much of our taxes goes to people who will not work and are just living off the public dole? What percentage of the money we all send to the government actually goes to benifiting people who will not work? How much of our taxes are paid out to others by this horrific spread the wealth idea? How much money is being robbed from me to given to someone else? If it's really as much as you seem to be insinuating then I for one would be pissed big time. 10% 20% 50% 90% HOW MUCH IS IT!''

 

Here is the answer for the third time:

 

''Originally Posted by questor

Let me repeat for those who didn't understand...

''Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW'' ''

Do you need to consult someone on this?

 

Piffle & obfuscation. The crux of the matter is that you rail against taxes, & Obama's plan specifically, because you don't want people getting anything they don't pay for and so the implication is that's what Obama taxes go to and the further implication is that there is data to support the idea people are getting something for nothing, therefore the onus is on you to supply that data.

 

Since you refuse to supply any such data, your objection is overruled. Case dismissed. May you & your ilk live long enough to need help you can't pay for.

[Essay]

"Spreading the Wealth" is code for Socialism, but I don't buy the propoganda.

Things couldn't get more socialist than they have recently, could they?

Besides, that's just a label; how about talking about "Good Management" instead of "socialism."

 

...but IMHO

This is just a natural swing of the pendulem.

 

For long enough, we've been relying upon a "trickle down" to sustain the grass roots. Maybe a small infusion to the roots is needed, so we can rely on a...

 

Wicking Up ...of wealth, or even value... to those gay blades at the top.

 

~

"What a horrible metaphor!" ~trivia quote

[questor]

Piffle & obfuscation. The crux of the matter is that you rail against taxes, & Obama's plan specifically, because you don't want people getting anything they don't pay for and so the implication is that's what Obama taxes go to and the further implication is that there is data to support the idea people are getting something for nothing, therefore the onus is on you to supply that data.

Could our current financial problems be in great measure due to people getting something(houses) they couldn't pay for?

Do you think that welfare recipients get something for nothing? Or do they have to do something in return?

 

If you pay taxes, do you think your own taxes will go up or down? Are you pleased about this?

[Moontanman]

Could our current financial problems be in great measure due to people getting something(houses) they couldn't pay for?

Do you think that welfare recipients get something for nothing? Or do they have to do something in return?

 

If you pay taxes, do you think your own taxes will go up or down? Are you pleased about this?

 

I pay taxes, since I make less than $250,000 mine will go down, yes I like it....... If you make less than $250,000 yours will go down too, do you like it? Or would you prefer to pay more in taxes?

[Moontanman]

Let me repeat for those who didn't understand...

''Moon, the answer to your question is....I DON'T KNOW''

 

Questor, if you don't know how much then how can you claim it's important at all? Why would you continually make claims you don't know are true? You have repeatedly claimed that a significant amount of money, the insinuation has always been that it is enough to make a real difference in your life, is being taken from you and given to someone who doesn't work but really you don't really know how much if any is being given to someone who will not work? I honestly thought your stance would be based on more than rumor and innuendo.

[Essay]

Could our current financial problems be in great measure due to people getting something ("creative" financial instruments) they couldn't pay for?

Do you think that corporate welfare recipients get something for nothing? Or do they have to do something in return?

Would this be more accurate, using the changes in red?

~