nutronjon Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutronjon Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 the only, control i have over my life is what choice to make. all goodness is of God, the bible says "a form of Godlyness" meaning people will try to do good. Greek mythology is full of stories of youthful foolishness. For example In Greek mythology Icarus flew too close to the sun, despite warnings from his father Daedalus, and his wings made of wax and feathers melted, and he was killed when he crashed to the ground. Phaethon set out early one morning to drive the Sun's chariot on its daily journey. As his father feared, Phaethon lost control of the chariot when the scorpion scared the horses. Plunging down, the Sun's searing heat set Mother Earth on fire. She cried out to the gods for help. The king of the gods fired a thunderbolt and killed Phaethon to save Earth. Burning, he fell into the river Eridanus that extinguished the flames. Demeter told her daughter Persephone to stay in one area until she returned and Persephone went outside of the boundary, with the result of Hades taking her to his underground realm. There are things that control your life, and you seem youthful because you appear unaware of what they are. The moral of the Greek stories, is that trouble follows such youthful folly. When we do not know our limits and stay within safe boundaries, we get into trouble. Your signiture indicates a serious misunderstanding of science. Science is to democracy what the bible is to autocracy. Through science we come to know the controlling factors and gain the ability to control for the best and avoid the worst. Conscience- is a knowing that which comes out of a science of life. Con is to study, and science is knowledge of life. When we become aware of the forces that control our lives, we become authorities, ready to participate in self government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 Our perception of God has changed as humanity matured. The Old Testament God was morally neutral able to control life and death. The reason was, Satan was still in heaven at that time, as God's left hand man. The best example, is the book of Job, with God letting his behavior become influenced by Satan, with Satan appearing to call the shots as his advisor. For example, Satan would say, take this away from Job and I bet he messes up. God would just do it as though he needed this advice or he needed Satan's approval. Satan had been put in charge of the earth and therefore was a specialist when it came to humans, so his advice counted. Technically, Satan is not thrown from heaven until the end of the New Testament in Revelations. So Satan was in heaven, at the same time Christ had returned to heaven, after his death, since John did not write revelations until decades later. If prophesy have not yet occurred, then Satan is still in heaven. It is only when the drama gets going is he displaced. It is possible the ID orientation, being based on old testament writings, is based on a time when God was influenced of Satan, making it part illusion. Here is the analogy. The old testament is sort analogous to Newtonian gravity. While the New Testament is like relativity. The classical Newtonian gravity is still taught because it has practical value. Relativity is harder to grasp but becomes more relevant at extreme conditions. ID is sort of using Newtonian gravity to explain things that are more accurately described with relativity. The New Testament doesn't try to do physics. It renders onto Caesar=science what belongs to science. This new attitude is based on when Satan's position in heaven is starting to get shakier with God as he changes his primary advisor to Christ. Satan's tree is knowledge of good and evil. Genesis is sort of influenced by Satan, being both good and evil or real and an illusion at the same time. This is why it needs to be looked at symbolically. The goal is not to get too literal but to filter out the illusion aspect. In other words, there is a grain of truth, but Satan's polar nature adds a layer of deception that one needs to filter. Ignoring this was fine during that time in ancient history, since God had Satan as advisor and it was consistent with God's choice. But God has since evolved changing his key advisor away from Satan. If prophesy is still in the future, than Satan may still come to meetings but his chair is further down the table with him starting to lobby for a hostile take-over. Satan is going to show his old testament resume, since at one time, such as in Job, he was sort of calling the shots when it came to the humans. The Old Testament law, including literal genesis and other types of things, were all superseded when Christ became God's new primary advisor. To go backwards denies it was superseded, lobbying for the old days when Satan was the primary advisor to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order? preexsisting order. next question would be..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 preexsisting order. next question would be..? Oh! I love this! Then where did the preexisting order come from? Is it turtles all the way down?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 In reality, you usually don't have to look very far to find people that do not try to do good, even as they claim to have a relationship with God. and i agree you will "know a tree by the fruit it bears" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 and i agree you will "know a tree by the fruit it bears" So what does the obstifacation your tree bears say about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 So what does the obstifacation your tree bears say about you? :) Do you mean obstinance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 :) Do you mean obstinance? Nope I meant obstification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essay Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 Nope I meant obstification.:shrug:Really? Obstreperous obfuscation?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 :shrug:Really? Obstreperous obfuscation?:evil: Works for me! Ok, so I can't spell, I know what I am talking about, it's up to you to figure it out. That's seems to be Goku's attitude anyway. "confuse then divide" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted April 27, 2008 Report Share Posted April 27, 2008 "confuse then divide"confused the divine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutronjon Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Could we consider another concept of God, besides the biblical one? In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order? This is about math and physics. It is a serious question about how the universe came ordered and the force of this creation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Could we consider another concept of God, besides the biblical one? In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order? This is about math and physics. It is a serious question about how the universe came ordered and the force of this creation. It sounds as if you are suggesting that chaos has been replaced by order. Is that what you intend to imply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Could we consider another concept of God, besides the biblical one? In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order? This is about math and physics. It is a serious question about how the universe came ordered and the force of this creation. Eternal principles, as Pythagoras said "Eternal true forms" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Could we consider another concept of God, besides the biblical one? In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order? This is about math and physics. It is a serious question about how the universe came ordered and the force of this creation. Totally random, it only looks like it has direction because we are here to think it. If the universe had formed with significantly different rules we wouldn't be here to complain about it. True the rules wouldn't have had to be much different but the idea is the same no matter how fine tuned the universe seems from our perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 Totally random, it only looks like it has direction because we are here to think it. The universe was never been in a state of totally Randomness. Chaos and order have always been in a fluctuating equilibrium with one another. There is always an inherent seed of order in any system know matter how chaotic it my seem from an observer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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