Capital Punishment: Is it right?

[Jay-qu]

A little fact that I learnt today: The death penalty was abolished in Victoria in 1975, though the last man hung (our method of choice :S ) was in 1967.

[shadetreecountryboy]

LJPO7:

I totally agree with you. Also it is very hard to sit on jury duty and have to vote on such a sentence. Everything you say is sooo right.

On the subject of money: I did a report on Rikers Island and was shocked to learn that in the year 2006 it cost 87,000 dollars to feed, clothe and supply other human rights to inmates! Doctors,etc.,etc.

Just think; people were exonorated with new D.N.A.procedures in the last 10 years. Just think what forensic tool we will have in the next 10 years!

I like to sleep at night and I do not think I would sleep very well knowing I voted for death, when in 10 years advancements in forensics could exonerate a human being.

[shadetreecountryboy]

To all: I am logging off till tomorrow because of a surgury and the pain med is "kicking in" making it hard to type and keep my train of thought.

talk to all of you wonderful people later.

shadetreecountryboy

Peaceout!:(

[Moontanman]

I wouldn't have much of a problem putting a serial killer to death but to put someone to death on circumstantial evidence is inexcusable. If I have absolute proof you killed someone with malice and or planned it ahead of time you (or me) deserves to fry. Crimes of passion are somewhat different but still deserve punishment equal to the crime. What bothers me is the death penalty seems to be applied to more and more people for more and more crimes. Just the idea of being able to kill someone for a crime allows it to be misused. Again if you feel you can morally kill someone for breaking the rules of society you open the door for people to be killed for almost any reason as long as society feels it's necessary.

[InfiniteNow]

How do you teach people that killing is wrong by killing them?

[Not half- but whole!]

Death simply cannot be undone. The US has at executed (I can't find the exact #) approximately 30 people that the State has later exonerated. Thirty plus dead people, oops, sorry, here's a check. That is about all that can be done in those cases. Just this past Monday there was a TX inmate that was exonerated after 27 years in prison. At least he did get out without a body bag.

 

I have quite a few stats on this subject, It just has been a bit and I'll have to dig out my sources, but humor me for a moment and if there are questions regarding specific stats 'll dig them out.

 

The US ranks 5th in the world for executions, following 1. China, 2. Iran, 3. Saudi Arabia, 4. Pakistan.

There's some great company there...

 

Reduced crime rates have never been linked to capital punishment. Some studies even show that crime rates spike in the area immediately following an execution.

 

Since 1976 127 death row inmates have been exonerated. (As I said earlier these got out without the body bag).

 

Many victim family/survivor groups have shown that executions offered no closure and in some cases added more guilt to the families of victims.

 

The classic arguments for capital punishment, ie deterrence and closure for families, hold no water. Just look at the countries that are in that list above. Either totalitarian governments or theocracies. Do we let the old Testament be the US's sharia law? Are we to pluck at each others' eye to show not to do it?

[Thunderbird]

One fact that may not be well known is that the average stay on death row is between 10-15 years. The reason for this is that there is a lengthy legal process for capital punishment cases, it takes time and over a $1,000,000 to prosecute. its much cheaper to keep them.

[Moontanman]

How do you teach people that killing is wrong by killing them?

 

I'm not the least bit interested in teaching anyone it's wrong to kill, I have been taught that my whole life with out anyone being killed. I want to teach people that if you kill for no reason or for fun or for thrills or what ever unlawful homicide will be delt with by killing perpetrator. No other reason.

[Michaelangelica]

A Message From The Dalai Lama on the Death Penalty.

His Holiness, Tenzin Gyatso, The Fourteenth Dalai Lama

 

MESSAGE SUPPORTING THE MORATORIUM

ON THE DEATH PENALTY

 

In general, death is something none of us wants, in fact it is something we don't even like to think about. When death takes place naturally, it is a process beyond our control to stop, but where death is willfully and deliberately brought about, it is very unfortunate. Of course, within our legal systems there are said to be certain reasons and purposes for employing the death penalty. It is used to punish offenders, to prevent them ever repeating their misdeed and to deter others. However, if we examine the situation more carefully, we will find that these are not the real solutions.

 

Harmful actions and their tragic consequences all have their origin in disturbing emotions and negative thoughts, and these are a state of mind, whose potential we find within all human beings. From this point of view, every one of us has the potential to commit crimes, because we are all subject to negative disturbing emotions and negative mental qualities. And we will not overcome these by executing other people.

 

What is deemed criminal can vary greatly from country to country. In some countries, for example, speaking out for human rights is considered criminal, whereas in other countries preventing free speech is a crime. The punishments for crimes are also very different, but usually include various forms of imprisonment or hardship, financial penalties and, in a number of countries, physical pain. In some countries, crimes that the government considers very serious are punished by executing the person who committed the crime.

 

The death penalty fulfills a preventive function, but it is also very clearly a form of revenge. It is an especially severe form of punishment because it is so final. The human life is ended and the executed person is deprived of the opportunity to change, to restore the harm done or compensate for it. Before advocating execution we should consider whether criminals are intrinsically negative and harmful people or whether they will remain perpetually in the same state of mind in which they committed their crime or not. The answer, I believe, is definitely not. However horrible the act they have committed, I believe that everyone has the potential to improve and correct themselves. Therefore, I am optimistic that it remains possible to deter criminal activity, and prevent such harmful consequences of such acts in society, without having to resort to the death penalty.

 

My overriding belief is that it is always possible for criminals to improve and that by its very finality the death penalty contradicts this. Therefore, I support those organizations and individuals who are trying to bring an end to the use of the death penalty.

 

Today, in many societies very little importance is placed on education or the development of human values through social programs and entertainment. In fact, if we take television programming as an example, violence, including killing, is regarded as having a high entertainment value. This is indicative of how misguided we have become.

 

I believe human beings are not violent by nature. Unlike lions and tigers, we are not naturally equipped to kill with sharp teeth and claws. From a Buddhist viewpoint, I believe that the basic nature of every sentient being is pure, that the deeper nature of mind is something pure. Human beings become violent because of negative thoughts which arise as a result of their environment and circumstances.

 

I wholeheartedly support an appeal to those countries who at present employ the death penalty to observe an unconditional moratorium. At the same time we should give more support to education and encourage a greater sense of universal responsibility. We need to explain the importance of the practice of love and compassion for our own survival and to try to minimize those conditions which foster murderous tendencies, such as the proliferation of weapons in our societies. These are things even private individuals can work towards.

 

Tenzin Gyatso

 

Engaged Zen Foundation Home Page

[freeztar]

It's a great monologue from the Dalai, but I have to disagree about human reform. I believe that some people (a vast minority) are incapable of reforming. Repeat offenders are a good example of this. Some argue that it is the reformation system that is too fault. I agree in most cases, but I still think that there are some beyond reform.

 

That said, I don't think we should kill them.

[InfiniteNow]

I'm not the least bit interested in teaching anyone it's wrong to kill, I have been taught that my whole life with out anyone being killed. I want to teach people that if you kill for no reason or for fun or for thrills or what ever unlawful homicide will be delt with by killing perpetrator. No other reason.

 

Your logic is not internally consistent. Nothing can be taught to someone who is dead. The lesson to which you ascribe such great importance, the lesson on which you base your support of capital punishment, can never be transferred to the person whom you wish to receive it... not when "delivered" in this manner.

 

People who are dead don't learn lessons. That's a fact.

 

 

Capital punishment is nothing more than state sponsored vengeance to quench the blood lust of the populace.

[freeztar]

Your logic is not internally consistent. Nothing can be taught to someone who is dead. The lesson to which you ascribe such great importance, the lesson on which you base your support of capital punishment, can never be transferred to the person whom you wish to receive it... not when "delivered" in this manner.

 

People who are dead don't learn lessons. That's a fact.

 

A lot of proponents claim that it serves as a deterrent for future, would-be killers. In other words, if you want to kill somebody and you live in Texas, drive to another state first. ;)

Capital punishment is nothing more than state sponsored vengeance to quench the blood lust of the populace.

 

Perhaps there is some truth in this. If a man raped and killed my fiancee, I would be inclined to kill the perp myself. (not really folks...I would never kill anyone unless absolutely necessary and only in self-defense)

The anger that is felt by people who experience these things against people they love is very real, I would imagine. Fortunately, I've never been in such a position, but I can imagine the rage I would feel. Often times, I've read about families feeling great relief after the perp is dead. I can only imagine that they feel this relief because they know that no other family will have to endure the same pain as they have, by the hands of this perp.

 

Is it "vengeance to quench the blood lust of the populace"? I suppose it is in a way, but you make it sound like "The Running Man". ;)

 

I should state my official position for the record. I have not voted in this thread's poll. This is one of those issues where I'm split. I'm a centrist on most issues actually. I don't like absolute positions for the most part, but if I *had* to choose one or the other, I would say "no". :)