Universe's Intelligent Design by Evolution (UIDE)©

[MoonBaby]

I was going to comment on your amazing resemplance to your father. :hihi:

 

I thank you for the compliment. It one of the best I've ever been given, you devil you.:hyper:

 

Bubblegum - how appropirate - flavor but no nutrients.

 

And here I was starting to think you hadn't a sense of humor! Cool! My favorite is peppermint. What's yours?

 

Was it your choice to not read until you were eleven?

 

Are you kidding, I was so busy having fun, why would I want to bury my nose in a book before then. I taught myself when I was ready.

 

Hollywood? Unless you are a Republican you are mainstream there.

 

I think I missed the boat on this one... are you saying that one is not open-minded unless they live in Hollywood? Or that anyone who lives in Hollywood is a freak? Either way it must be one of those dreaded gross generalizations.

 

Arrogant eliltist attitudes are not attractive. In general terms, the earlier you learn things the better. There are examples that stand as exceptions to that. But the laws of probability are on the side of earlier is better.

 

I wasn't referring to either you or I as being intellectuals. Pseudo maybe, but intellectuals definitely not. Or we would not be having this discussion.

 

I don't care your weight, or your gender, or whatever. Threats of physical violence are not called for. Period. I guess this is not the case in your well adjusted and polite, thick skinned, good humored, forward thinking, open minded, elegant, intellectual, artistic, humorous, daring, courageous, considerate and spiritual world.

 

I am officially extending my advise to lighten up to you, good sir. It was a jest, made to lighten up the seriousness of what was being said... considering what was said about and to me and my family I think it was quite tame. Typical to twist a joke in order to disguise a rudeness. I'm jumping off this dead horse.

 

What aspects of Rome are you pining for exactly? Just go to Vegas. In the mean time, enjoy the compound. Don't lock anybody in. Stay away from the fruit drinks.

 

Oh no! Not yet another example of a yokel who does not appreciate the use of metaphor. We have no keys or locks or vaults or moats or fences in this "compound". Is orange juice okay?

 

After reading all of the above, it's hard to believe that I am talking to serious scientists on a serious subject. Who cares this is more fun! At least it would be if it weren't so tragic.

[Boerseun]

Well, now.

 

Now we have heard from two of MagnetMan's kids. It seems that if MagnetMan can't win his arguments from authority (like he's been trying to), he calls in the cavalry and tries to make his stand through sheer volume (if not content).

 

So - to recap: MagnetMan came to Hypo, with the sole intent of selling his wares. His wares was in the form of a book called psyche-genetics. He kept on making references towards his book, and when asked for clarification, kept on saying that there's no point in retyping the whole thing, you had to buy the book to know what he was on about. And when conflicting viewpoints rose, a patronising arrogant attitude was used such as "you sound like a twelve year old", or (even in this thread, a couple 'o posts ago) "one day you will grow up as well". Eventually MagnetMan started posting little bits of his threory, and some meaningless schematics. I even went to his site that's got a forum that's moderated by one of his kids, with about zero visitors and zero posts to go see what it's all about. This site, this so-called 'theory' contains such choice tidbits such as:

We will be in direct contact with

spiritual beings seeking rebirth and experience the joy of bringing them down to Earth, to be loved and guided by

us on their path to full self-realization.

We will assume our seat at the Center of Galactic

Command as Companions of a United God. We will be able to assume any form at will and translocate to

wherever we wish, back and forward through Time and Space.

Should the Psyche-Genetic premise prove to resonate with the general population, it will resolve the current

debate over Intelligent Design

Twenty five centuries later, particle physicists endorsed the atomic polarity of nuclear energy – but have yet to

acknowledge that the atom is intrinsically charismatic – that it has a conscious Soul.

The charismatic effect of consciousness on matter has been obliquely confirmed by the use of charismatic

terms, such as charm and beauty and strangeness, in an attempt to characterize the undeterminable behavioral

anomalies observed during experiments in quantum mechanics.

...

The list goes on. The relevance of his philosophy to science is unclear to me. At the most, it might be called 'religious', at the least, it indicates an incredibly weak understanding of science, religion, quantum physics, etc.

 

So, after he shared the incredible way in which he raised his kids, I called him a nut. And I still stick to it, no matter what price I'll have to pay, because he's not here to participate in any meaningful way in science-related debate or discussions, MagnetMan is here solely for pimping his book, the one that contains more of the bullshit laid out above. Initially, we had a good chat over PM seeing as he's from my neck 'o the woods, until I started seeing his attitude and take on criticism. I gave couple of jabs in the "Africa & Colonialism" thread, and got this in PM:

As you know I have ulterior motives here, with every intention of roping you in and hogtieing you to my way of thinking. Will be very disappoinnted if you do not have Psyche-Genetics on order, or you will be forcing me to rewrite the whole damn book in response to your pokes.

Is that how debates are run? Is this an example of an 'open mind'? Whenever anything is being debated, MagnetMan is looking for an angle to pimp his book. That is simply not constructive towards the debate, and is not the intention of how Hypography should be run.

 

When MagnetMan introduced himself initially, he also complained to me that he's been on plenty forums, and keeps getting banned. You don't happen to see a trend here, MagnetMan? Maybe the issue don't lie with intolerant moderators and administrators, maybe the issue lies with your incredibly arrogant and disrespectful attitude, being very intolerant of any form of criticism and critique.

 

And kids, hate telling this to you, but the 'Tokalosh' is actually spelt 'Tokolosh', or if you're a bona fide zulu, iTokolosh, and is an evil spirit. Black superstitious people in South Africa actually raise their beds off the floors on paint cans, bricks, anything they can to make it hard for the Tokolosh to hide there undetected. So that's your Karma, then. Interesting. But scary, nonetheless. Karmas and spiritual things have nothing to do with science, and shouldn't be on a science forum. I also read in your dad's post that you kids have had ESP training. I have asked your dad for links or resources towards that, but up till now I have heard nothing. ESP (and related bullshit like telekinesis) have been repeatedly blown out of the water by that evildoer, the "SCIENTIFIC METHOD". It falls under pseudoscience. Also known as 'party tricks', 'smoke and mirrors', or my personal favourite, 'utter bullshit'. Pick one.

 

After the above, I still stick to my guns. MagnetMan is failing miserably to actively and productively contribute anything at all without pimping his wares, and that to me is a transgression of Hypo's rules. Me calling him a nut is another transgression of Hypo's rules. I'll live with the consequences, and will not apologize.

 

So - we should ask ourselves: Is Hypo going to maintain the efforts of being a serious site for seriously discussing science-related issues, or are we going to allow each man and his dog to pimp his delusions here? Without any proof? What is Hypo exactly? And advertising board for nutjobs? I think not, and I haven't experienced it as such for the last thousand-odd posts over the last year or so - but this is getting ridiculous.

[Eclogite]

To the various offspring of MM, seen and unseen, hello. To MM himself, hello again.

 

You are presently very likely seeing me as one the enemies, although, disappointingly, I haven't received any death threats from you all yet. [Are you afraid of a myopic of fifty seven year old who has already had two strokes?:( ]

 

Boerseun and Big Dog have expressed their viewpoints with some clarity. My take on those views is irrelevant to what I wish to say, but for the record I am in broad agreement with them. [i mean really, MM, you must [b]know [/b]you are a nutter.]

 

With all that said you probably can't think of a single reason why you should listen to me, or pay any heed to the advice I am about to give. That is you choice, but it is would also be your loss.

 

You are failing and will continue to fail in your goals for three reasons:

 

1) You offer no evidence for your more extraordinary claims.

2) Your writing style is an unattractive concatenation of pseudo-terminology.

3) Your thesis is nonsense.

 

I cannot offer any advice on the latter (other than abandon it), but on the first two points I believe I can. Take it or leave it as you wish.

 

If you wish to convince people, especially on a site such as this, it can only be done by offering structured argument and organised evidence. You have failed repeatedly to do so. Instead you have relied upon bluster and argument from authority. These will not work. You must change this approach if you are to stand any chance of success.

 

Secondly, cut the New World Order pretentious-speak. Certain of your paragraphs are nicely written, have a clear point, conveyed with conviction and sincerity. These, regrettably, are few and far between. When you lapse into your theory you are using words and phrases that may well resonate with you, but are gobbledygook to the mass audience. Therefore:

 

Define any term very clearly, thoroughly and comprehensively, from multiple directions, before using it routinely.

Do not use a term in a radically different way from how it is currently understood in society or science.

Respond positively when people ask for clarification of ideas or evidence.

 

This advice is not free. To accept it you will have to pay a heavy price in re-evaluating aspects of yourself. I suspect, sadly, you will be unwilling to pay that price. Your choice.

 

 

Two minor points: MoonBaby and Strictly Platonic - I started reading when I was three. I wrote my first novel when I was nine or ten. It was crap. I bet yours were too.

 

Boerseun: You know I support your views, but a pm is a personal message. You should not have quoted from MM's pm to you without his agreement. That is a breach of internet etiquette and was, in my opinion, wrong.

[Boerseun]

Boerseun: You know I support your views, but a pm is a personal message. You should not have quoted from MM's pm to you without his agreement. That is a breach of internet etiquette and was, in my opinion, wrong.

You're right. For this I do apologize.

[Zythryn]

MM (and family).

 

I was very concerned and quite speechless when I read your social experiments with your own family. Many of your experiments sounded very dangerous and detrimental.

 

I am thrilled that your kids have done so well. Instead of psyche-genisis, I would recommend documenting the incredible system which allows the kids to learn to read and advance so quickly from Lady and the Tramp to much more advanced novels immediately. With this introduction of how well it works, you can then move into psyche-genisis with a better chance of success.

 

Many others have spoken much better than I can.

 

In a nutshell though, if you can structure your statements with evidence and logic rather than stories and 'insights' (without related tests) that will be much more easily accepted.

 

As for some of these books your kids have written, can you give us the names, or the names they are written under?

 

Is your idea of society more communal in nature? It does sound so.

If so, do you and your kids all live together?

 

Have you ever lost a child sending them into the mountains alone for three days? If you have not considered that, please be careful in the future.

 

Mark

[TheBigDog]

You have accused me repeatedly of rejecting any answer that I do not like. How about yourself? I had no trouble in answering it when you first asked it. What more would you like me to say that will satisfy you?

 

I have listed the logical sequence of evolutionary changes several times on various threads. I have even posted diagrams. I never said that our core values would change. Personal integrity, family and extended family values will always underpin human consciousness. I said that nationalism and capitalism and religious scripture, just like clanism and a farm-based economy and totemic worship in the past, would become passe - become part of our history - that those artificial Old Age values wil not play in the new world paradigm. In this new view an egalitarian global society, all working together to steward the home planet as a single family estate will be an evolutionary imperative. The individual does not become lost in this Nuclear Age of common effort - but infinitely empowered by the vast challenges placed on each of our unique gifts put towards a common goal that benefits high and low equally.

If my view of how this sequence plays out proves to be false, then so be it. At least it is a noble view. What more can I say? That I don't believe my own positive impression of the common responce to goodness in human nature, given the right encouragement? Am I not allowed to hold this view or try to share it because it does not agree with yours? Maybe if you spell out exactly what I am supposed to say, you will remove my present confusion.

Confusion is the core of your present view. Maybe that is the problem with it.

 

You are essentially answering my question with "because I say so" or "there will be no dissodents" or "dissodents are irrellevant". Those are the words I am hearing in what you do and don't say.

 

So I will ask again - and I believe that the vast majority of those reading this site understand the question and what merits a valid answer...

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

 

Bill

[MagnetMan]

MM (and family).

 

I was very concerned and quite speechless when I read your social experiments with your own family. Many of your experiments sounded very dangerous and detrimental.

Your concern for the children is natural, since you do not know the background to our educational experiments. The children and I have been hiking and camping in the mountains ever since they could walk. In fact I have videos of them still in diapers, clmbing rock faces. By the time each hit puberty threy were relative experts in out-door living. The 14,000 foot mountain peaks they were sent solo into overlook our ranch. They had been trained to use firearms and each was armed against possible mountain lion or bear. Each had a mirror reflector to let is know each morning if they were still fine. So they were well prepared beforehand and evey precaution was taken. The remaining risks had to be part of the program, or it would have had no dynamic.

Secondly I am from Africa. I have some Pondo bllood. It is ancient tradition to send pubertal boys after circumcision(I sent the gitrls too) into the mountains for three months. The objective is to wean them from childhood and get them to appreciate the values of family and community and the long efforst of the ancestors to develop the comforts of home. When the ordeal is over, they come down from the mountains as young men, no longer boys. So there is much precedent. Each of my kids are more proud of the days and nights they spent alone than all the other years in the mountains put together. Additionally Home Sweet Home has special meaning to them now.

 

I am thrilled that your kids have done so well. Instead of psyche-genisis, I would recommend documenting the incredible system which allows the kids to learn to read and advance so quickly from Lady and the Tramp to much more advanced novels immediately. With this introduction of how well it works, you can then move into psyche-genisis with a better chance of success.

 

The average African child who has never been inside a classroom. has a vocabulary at least five time greater than those who have. The difference between listening to an oral account of tribal lore or any of the other adventures in life, as apposed to reading it in a book leaves far deeper impressions on the psyche. The imprint in memory becomes indelible, as the child listens to the stories, watches the facial expressions of the recounter and the body language. It is the reason why all people love to watch staged plays and movies. So instead of books, my wife and I told stories and recountred everything we knew about our family and national hiostories and world history. We gave our own interpretatations of mythology and the scriptures and the metaphorical implications behind them.

 

We have a large home and property, so there are endless chores and each got their assigmnents rotated. We built our home ourselves and maintain it ourselves. So there is constant repair work. All learned workshop crafts, which gave them a practical basis of mathemetaical measurements. We have satelite TV. Watching documentary channels fed them with all the world's wealth of social and environmental facts. And so, as they reached puberty and wanted, of their own accord. to master reading and writing, they were already bursting with imagery, ideas and fantasies of their own. With very little guidance from us, each compressed the whole of primary school training into three months and passed their (comulsory for homeschoolers) 8th grade examinations with flying colours. They immediately mastered and surfed the internet, and began writing phantasy novels.

 

Yoga exercizes, meditatiion and telephathic drills where part of their daily routine. We have proved that ESP is an integral part of human communication. If you train daily to guess what I am thinking of with feqwere and fewer clues- after a year or two you start getting direct hits. My kids were getting six out of six regularly. That same ESP training is done among shamans throughtout Africa. Most scientists have no idea of what the mind is really capable of.

 

As far as we are concerned our HeartStart program is an unqulaifuied success. We formed a non-profit foundation and our plan is to encourage a few more families to try it out so that we can present the findings from a larger experimental base.

 

In a nutshell though, if you can structure your statements with evidence and logic rather than stories and 'insights' (without related tests) that will be much more easily accepted.

I have written a book and tried to detail the rationale and methodolgy of Psyche-Genetics as clearly as I can. The task of redefining human consciousness in entirely new terms is way beyond the capacity of a single mind. Psyche-Genetics presents a basic skeleton of a brand new way of evaluating and quantifying human consciousness. My greatest advantage in formulating it is also my greatest handicap. I have almsot zero professional training - which has allowed my mind to explore new avenues without preconcieved in-put. As a film maker I was able to report on my findings without too much trouble, for that is the direct advantage of visual imagery. Script and style of presentation has been is the big barrier, hence the struggle I am having here trying to present aspects of Psyche-Genetics without rewriting the whole book each time. With luck people more qualified in presentation will grasp the implications of this radical new theory, and be interested in helping to improve on the presentation.

 

 

As for some of these books your kids have written, can you give us the names, or the names they are written under?

They will not even let me read more tha n apage or two yet. They keep saying, Dad, its a work in progress. They are unquestionably far above average writers. I am hoping at least one emergerges as a truly great writer

 

Is your idea of society more communal in nature? It does sound so.

If so, do you and your kids all live together?

We have forty acres. All want to live and die here. Old fashioned family values are as tight as they were during my grandparents time. None of them want to become migrant workers. Nobles look after their own estate. Every family should have a noble home base.

 

Have you ever lost a child sending them into the mountains alone for three days? If you have not considered that, please be careful in the future.

Mark

To loose just one will surely break our hearts. But life cannot be dynamic without risk. But thank you for your interetst and your care.

[Eclogite]

With luck people more qualified in presentation will grasp the implications of this radical new theory, and be interested in helping to improve on the presentation.

You seem to understand the principle of tempering steel in fire, yet you have systematically rejected my own efforts to redirect your approach, characterising me, amongst other things, as a child, and not bright enough to understand your theories.

Is that smart?

[MagnetMan]

You seem to understand the principle of tempering steel in fire, yet you have systematically rejected my own efforts to redirect your approach, characterising me, amongst other things, as a child, and not bright enough to understand your theories.

Is that smart?

Eclogite, if I have misunderstood your attempt to be constructive I regret that. My personal feelings are of no account in this matter. If you are truly interested in helping, most of my research and reasons for same, are documented in my book. That is the only way you will get a comprehensiove over-view of what Psyche-Genetics is all about. Without that we will continue to be talking at cross-purposes. If you cannot afford the twenty two bucks to get a copy from AuthorHouse, I will gladly mail you one.

[Strictly_Platonic]

Well, a lot has happened since I posted. It seems I’ve missed all the fun. :(

I got some things to answer. I’ll go down the list. First off, Boerseun.

 

And kids, hate telling this to you, but the 'Tokalosh' is actually spelt 'Tokolosh', or if you're a bona fide zulu, iTokolosh

 

Dude, you’re not listening to me. I told you I couldn’t spell.

 

Tokolosh is an evil spirit. Black superstitious people in South Africa actually raise their beds off the floors on paint cans, bricks, anything they can to make it hard for the Tokolosh to hide there undetected. So that's your Karma, then. Interesting. But scary, nonetheless.

 

He’s a naughty imp in the service of god. He’s here to let us know when we’ve done wrong, and by knowing you’ve done wrong, you can correct your behavior. Cause and Effect. White kids also believe that a Tokolosh lives in their closet or under their bed. Another way of spelling Tokolosh is the boogeyman, leprechaun etc. But I find it interesting that a scientist is trying to teach us about metaphysics when he says its…..

 

utter bullshit

 

So, if this is the way you think of metaphysics, how and why are you trying to teach it to me? As to this:

 

I also read in your dad's post that you kids have had ESP training. I have asked your dad for links or resources towards that, but up till now I have heard nothing. ESP (and related bullshit like telekinesis) have been repeatedly blown out of the water by that evildoer, the "SCIENTIFIC METHOD". It falls under pseudoscience.

 

And yet the belief still persists. Just so you know, we (my siblings and myself) would get six out of six questions right quite often. How do you explain that?

 

Karmas and spiritual things have nothing to do with science, and shouldn't be on a science forum.

 

Isn’t this the board where you post things about theology???

 

But enough of this now. I used to duke it out often with one of my brothers and the immaturity was rather astounding looking back at it now. But we left these schoolyard tactics behind back in our illiterate skinhead stage. :shrug:

 

As to you, eclogite, truly I did not mean to leave you out on the fun. But just as an observation, my grandma (who’s nearly eighty) has had three strokes and bed-ridden, can scare me. Receive a tongue-lashing from her and within five minutes you’re running with your tail between your legs so to speak. So I shan’t underestimate you. :(

 

Zythryn, thank you for your more positive post, it was a welcome relief. :eek_big: As to titles of our books, nothing has been published or posted anywhere.

We didn't write them to publish them though, merely for our own enjoyment. But if you're interested, I'd be glad to send you a little excerpt.

 

Anyhow, I think I’m done for now.

[soulatom]

Hey, I’ve been gone for awhile. But upon returning to this thread, am quite shocked and dismayed to see the degeneration of politeness and manners by some of the key members in regards to personal attacks.

 

Just by definition, I cannot understand the objection to unscientific data and discussion:

 

Theology

the•ol•o•gy [thee ólləjee]

(plural the•ol•o•gies)

n

 

The study of religion, culminating in the synthesis or philosophy of religion

 

[14th century. Via French and Latin from Greek theologia , literally “study of divine things.”]

 

As to the arrogance of a particular member… “The only thing that casts doubt on the miracles of Jesus is that they were all witnessed by fishermen” Wow, this to me figures as quite an arrogant statement in itself. Are fishermen of some neanderthal intelligence or culture? I mean, come on man, I like sushi.:eek_big:

[ughaibu]

Study of religion is quite different from pushing Jonestown-type cults.

[MoonBaby]

Study of religion is quite different from pushing Jonestown-type cults.

 

Skinhead, compound, Jonestown, cult, eliltist, nutjobs, bullshit

 

All of these derogatory terms have been thrown at our family so far. But as we have jewish, arab, and negro blood somewhere in us, why not add yid, wop and nigger to these "scientific" charactarizations? One would think we are still in the Middle Ages. We're still waiting to be burned at the stake.

 

Could anyone please provide me with scientific data that might support the use of those terms regarding people, a family, of which you know zero about? Or do those terms come under religious study? Could you please explain to me how personal attacks and groundless disgusting insults further either scientific or religious study? Does it not occur to you as you type these things how disgracful they are?

 

This is the reason metaphysics needs to be included in an educational curriculum. For it teaches ethics, common decency, and brotherly love which, clearly, too many scientists in this forum seem to be sadly lacking.

 

MagnetMan is failing miserably to actively and productively contribute anything at all without pimping his wares, and that to me is a transgression of Hypo's rules. Me calling him a nut is another transgression of Hypo's rules. I'll live with the consequences, and will not apologize.

 

So, which rule is worse to transgress upon? What you perceive to be "pimping ones wares"... or to what is generally acknowledged and simultaneously disregarded, by yourself included, as a personal attack. (Not to mention the other blatant offense of the policy, made by you) Who is to judge? Doesn't this come under the heading of taking the law into ones own hands? Or maybe it falls in the category of selling ones soul. In my book it is simply hypocrytical... giving life to a contridiction and a double standard. Well done.

[Strictly_Platonic]

Study of religion is quite different from pushing Jonestown-type cults.

 

Seeing as we're all still alive I'm not seeing the comparison.

 

But if you're interested, I'd be glad to send you a little excerpt.

 

Is this considered pimping my wares? :eek_big:

[ughaibu]

MoonBaby:

The thrust of MagnetMan's posts on his vision, is a poorly thought out and elitist fantasy that hasn't, at all, stood up to scrutiny. This is a critique of the contents of his posts, there is no attack on him or his family.

That he is pushing a cult is a critique of his behaviour, again this is not insulting to him or his family, it is a conclusion based on observation of his behaviour.

Your last post is hysterical and paranoid.

[Eclogite]

As to the arrogance of a particular member… “The only thing that casts doubt on the miracles of Jesus is that they were all witnessed by fishermen” Wow, this to me figures as quite an arrogant statement in itself.

I had a quite different take on this. According to popular wisdom fishermen are prone to exagerate their success, by quite a large margin. Hence remarks such as "You should have seen the size of the one that got away."

Thus, I took the poster to be pointing out, in a humorous manner, intended to lighten the tone of what had become a heated thread, a very serious point: the demonstrable unreliability of eyewitnesses.

As such, I thought it was the opposite of arrogant, and a nice attempt to make a point firmly, but gently.

 

 

MM, thank you for your regrets expressed earlier. I am formulating a reply at present, that I may elect to send by pm. I wish to take time on it to minimise the risk of creating misunderstanding, or giving offence.

[questor]

while i do not necessarily agree with some theories posted, i am sure that we as humans do not set nature's goals or timetables.