Did Slavery Actually Create Superior Physicalities In Blacks??

[J.B]

Afro/Asian Americans are most famously represented by Tiger Woods. I lived for five years in the Far East. Both Hinduism and Buddhism have an ancient history of practicing mnind control techniques as a spiritual discipline. In Thailand, until recently, every young man was supposed to spend three years in a Buddhist monastery. Hundreds of generations of such practice imprint in their genetic behavior. The grace and power of a black physique shows up in Tiger's golf stroke. The will power to keep his concentration, even under extreme pressure, is what separates him from every other golfer that has ever lived.

Here MagnetMan write's the same thing I have been saying, he just said it in a nice (PC) way.

 

BTW MagnetMan I agree 100%

[J.B]

If I am included in "all" then please give me the lines that indicate that to you about my posts.

 

Bill

Sorry, your not included in the "all", in fact I agree with your opinions.

[MagnetMan]

How are things going in South Africa today now that blacks are in control?

 

Here is a BLACK MAN'S opinion:

 

There's no longer apartheid and there's black rule in South Africa, but what's the story there now?

 

Each South African day sees an average of 59 murders, 145 rapes and 752 serious assaults out of its 42 million population. The new crime is the rape of babies; some AIDS-infected African men believe that having sex with a virgin is a cure. Twelve percent of South Africa's population is HIV-positive, but President Mbeki says that HIV cannot cause AIDS.

 

In response to growing violence, South Africa's minister of safety and security, Steve Tshwete, says: "We can't police this; there's nothing more we can do. South Africa's currency, the rand, has fallen about 70 percent since the African National Congress (ANC) came to power in 1994. Emigration from South Africa (mainly of skilled people) is now at its highest level ever."

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams010902.asp

 

All sadly true J.B. The reason why, in my opinion, is that the end of colonialism in Africa was premature. But that is another very long and involved story that still has to be thrashed out.

 

Technically your argument is right. All the stats you quote are true. But their argument against you is that those stats could have been just as true for whites or Asians if colonial history had not gone the way it did. We are a violent species when provoked. Period. White America nuked Hiroshima when we knew it was filled with women and children. We continue to drop bombs on cities and call it collateral damage.

 

I am very much aware of how dangerous black anger is. I was stabbed and left for dead on the streets of Los Angels in 1984, by a gang of Cripps, for no other reason than my skin was white and they needed a victim for an initiation. My younger brother was murdered by a black man in South Africa two years ago, for nothing more than a VCR.

 

We have a massive racial problem on our hands. Few realize how volatile it really is. I was teaching in a black school in Watts in 1992, when the case against the police for the Rodeney King beating went in their favor. Whole sections of L.A; burned for five days and paralyzed civil services. It burned before in '72, as did Detroit and a dozen other US cities. One black sniper in Washington DC paralyzed the city for a week or more. One can make a case that 9/11 was racially motivated.

 

There are some 200,000 expatriate Africans, mostly the off-spring of former slaves, living in Western cities around the world. Few white dare to venture into their impoverished neighborhoods. When I go in I know I risk assault every time. But if none of us venture forth and put out a brotherly hand, how is the situation ever to resolve itself?

 

Bringing our attention to the problem, via the stats you have presented, is one thing. Dealing with them fairly is another. When we raise this sensitive subject, it has to be done constructively. Some solution must be presented with the criticism.

 

I believe it might be constructive for me to open a thread on colonialism, and maybe we can restate this argument on a more historical footing. It includes the problems of American Indians and Australian aborigines. I have spent all my life wrestling with race relations. It is personal. Several generations back, I have a Bantu ancestor as well.

[MagnetMan]

How are things going in South Africa today now that blacks are in control?

 

Here is a BLACK MAN'S opinion:

 

There's no longer apartheid and there's black rule in South Africa, but what's the story there now?

 

Each South African day sees an average of 59 murders, 145 rapes and 752 serious assaults out of its 42 million population. The new crime is the rape of babies; some AIDS-infected African men believe that having sex with a virgin is a cure. Twelve percent of South Africa's population is HIV-positive, but President Mbeki says that HIV cannot cause AIDS.

 

In response to growing violence, South Africa's minister of safety and security, Steve Tshwete, says: "We can't police this; there's nothing more we can do. South Africa's currency, the rand, has fallen about 70 percent since the African National Congress (ANC) came to power in 1994. Emigration from South Africa (mainly of skilled people) is now at its highest level ever."

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams010902.asp

 

All sadly true J.B. The reason why, in my opinion, is that the end of colonialism in Africa was premature. But that is another very long and involved story that still has to be thrashed out.

 

Technically your argument is right. All the stats you quote are true. But their argument against you is that those stats could have been just as true for whites or Asians if colonial history had not gone the way it did. We are a violent species when provoked. Period. White America nuked Hiroshima when we knew it was filled with women and children. We continue to drop bombs on cities and call it collateral damage.

 

I am very much aware of how dangerous black anger is. I was stabbed and left for dead on the streets of Los Angels in 1984, by a gang of Cripps, for no other reason than my skin was white and they needed a victim for an initiation. My younger brother was murdered by a black man in South Africa two years ago, for nothing more than a VCR.

 

We have a massive racial problem on our hands. Few realize how volatile it really is. I was teaching in a black school in Watts in 1992, when the case against the police for the Rodeney King beating went in their favor. Whole sections of L.A; burned for five days and paralyzed civil services. It burned before in '72, as did Detroit and a dozen other US cities. One black sniper in Washington DC paralyzed the city for a week or more. One can make a case that 9/11 was racially motivated.

 

There are some 200,000 expatriate Africans, mostly the off-spring of former slaves, living in Western cities around the world. Few white dare to venture into their impoverished neighborhoods. When I go in I know I risk assault every time. But if none of us venture forth and put out a brotherly hand, how is the situation ever to resolve itself?

 

Bringing our attention to the problem, via the stats you have presented, is one thing. Dealing with them fairly is another. When we raise this sensitive subject, it has to be done constructively. Some solution must be presented with the criticism.

 

I believe it might be constructive for me to open a thread on colonialism, and maybe we can restate this argument on a more historical footing. It includes the problems of American Indians and Australian aborigines. I have spent all my life wrestling with race relations. It is personal. Several generations back, I have a Bantu ancestor as well.

 

(Pardon me for the duplicate post… kooky button-happy accident :secret: )

[TheFaithfulStone]

You are chanting the mantra of the defeated and the doomed. It is the so called victim's ticket to absolution from failure ever being their own fault.

 

I've spent most of the day writing this post.

 

Okay, so basically nothing you said there is disagreeable. I'm not claiming nessecarily that this absolves African-Americans of our responsibility for the situation - I'm not talking about the way people should think. I'm talking about the way they do think.

 

I've got an anecdote I'd like to share. About a friend of mine named Chris (nope, not his real name) Chris was a talented painter, and the recipient of a small scholarship for a summer art program. Chris had a grandmother who had Parkinson's disease. His mother was an alchoholic, and he worked in a gas station after school for extra money. He had a little sister. Well - Chris's Momma vanished. He couldn't get the food stamps or any assistance without putting his sister in foster care and getting moved off himself. So he dropped out of school and started selling drugs. I don't know what happend to him after that, but I can't imagine anything good, it's not like he was a real thug. Sensitive artistic types probably don't last long in the game.

 

Now BigDog, put yourself in that position. You're a talented guy, you've got a chance to break away. But your family needs your help. You're 17 years old and your only real skill is that you can paint. What do you do? Do you take the job for $5.15/hr at McDonalds? That ain't gonna cut it at full-time wages, much less part-time. Do you look around for some generous rich person to start paying you for these paintings? That's just a day dream. Do you get shipped off to a "Boys Home" and let your sister get put in a foster home? We've all heard the stories of what happens to kids in foster homes, true or not. Or, do you look across the street, see that guy with the thousand dollar watch and the gold chains, and think "Why not me?" What do you owe to "society?" This is the same society that follows you around stores, the same society that wouldn't give you your food stamps, the same society where the art teacher bought your supplies out of her own pocket because the school doesn't have the money for anything beyond crayons.

 

Come'on BigDog. Working doubly hard isn't going to be good enough. Lil'Sis is still gonna have to go to the doctor. Grandma's still sick, Mom's still a drunk. Who the hell even knows about Dad. Gonna get two jobs at the concrete plant? Work 20 hours a day? You're not gonna go to college, that's it, rest of your life. No high school diploma. Gonna get two jobs at McDonalds? You're still going to have to sleep.

 

What's the attractive option here? You can play fast and loose with Morality when survival is at stake, and we both know it.

 

Don't tell me this is an extreme case because I've got a hundred stories just like it, and a few that are much much worse.

 

That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about whether or not "the man" is holding somebody down. This ain't Invisible Man-- it's life with a different set of starting variables. Dr. Bledsoe isn't writing "non-recommendation" letters to anybody. But this isn't some Libretarian fantasy world where the only thing keeping Chris from becoming the next Andy Warhol is hard work and dedication.

 

There's a BIG wall there BD. What do you do?

 

You're seventeen. You're African-American. You're poor, you're basically skill less. You don't have a car. You don't have nice, or even passable, clothes. These are the things you have to work with. What do you do?

 

Honestly, I didn't know what to tell my friend. "No way man, stay in school!" Guy had mouths to feed. "Slinging rock is wrong?" I don't know what the answer is, but I know how the problem got created. The problem got created by people preaching about "the culture of victimhood" and not caring about the real victims. The problem got created when some bueracrat at Human Services couldn't make an exception. The problem got created when we started seeing poor black things, instead of poor black people. I don't know how to fix it, but I see the problem - and it pisses me off when people say there isn't a problem. Or blame it on the people having the problem. Or say "Well that's just life, nothing I can do."

 

Sometimes, I remember those guys, and I can't believe what was wasted. All that potential. All that promise! And for what? What did Chris waste his life for? A few hundred dollars worth of grocercies? But what do you do without them? There are three ways out. Two you can make if you're lucky and smart. The third is always open, but it leads somewhere that's maybe worse than the hood.

 

I don't know. System worked out okay for me - hard work, talent, and a bit of a headstart. But for a lot of my friends it didn't. They weren't any less capable than a bunch of the tools I met at college. Only they weren't there. They were dealing death to some school kids, on some corner, in a ghetto under the shadow of a concrete plant. Trying to get theirs before the world got them.

 

I have trouble judging them too harshly, sometimes.

 

TFS

[TheBigDog]

I believe it might be constructive for me to open a thread on colonialism, and maybe we can restate this argument on a more historical footing.

That would be interesting. I would love to learn some colonial history.

 

Bill

[TheBigDog]

TFS, I hope my reply does justice to he effort that you put into your post. I am certainly enjoying and learning from the conversation!

Okay, so basically nothing you said there is disagreeable. I'm not claiming nessecarily that this absolves African-Americans of our responsibility for the situation - I'm not talking about the way people should think. I'm talking about the way they do think.

This is the biggest obstacle to the solution. People need to think differently before their situations have a hope of changing for the better. "As a man thinkith - so is he" - James Allen

 

As for your questions. What would I have done in that situation? I have no good answer, other than to say I hope it would have turned out differently for me. I can only be thankful that I was not faced with those choices and those resources at that age. But your friend was set up for failure. No father in the picture. A mom to speak of in the picture. A sick grandmother. A younger sister. Poverty. The lure of easy solutions. Talk about stacking the odds against somebody! Life is not fair, but that is going the extra mile against someone.

 

But the failure was not where your story started. The failure was long before your story began. Where was your friends father? You can succeed without a father. But the odds are in your favor when you have one around. The are even better when you have a good one around. This was compounded when his mother faced single parenthood and addiction problems. Kids without in home role models are like paper blowing in the wind. Who set an example of manhood for your friend? Who set an example of mother hood? Without those foundations you cannot make good decisions. If the father or mother realized that they were struggling, what actions did they take to protect their children from the scum of the hood? I know that religion get rocked hard on these threads, but they are the most reliable place a person can turn to for help within a community. Or extended family. Even distant relatives. Your friend and his sister were abandonded to the beast that is street life by adults who should be held criminal and be damned ashamed of their actions. And it becomes a spiral of failure for so many caught in these situations.

 

So how do we break the cycle? We have to find a way to break the cycle of failure. I do not believe that injecting money or relocating people does a damn bit of good. What people need is a change of thinking that leads to an internal belief in hope. If you believe there is no hope you will act like there is no hope. And when you act like there is no hope... well.

 

Planning, preparation and purposful work are keys to success. But they do not guarantee success. Persistance is needed to. And even then you are not ever guaranteed success. You need to evaluate, replan, change course, correct course. Then no matter what the outcome, your jouney and attitude are themselves a model of success. People need to know that they have hope. Sending messages of hopelessness only makes the situation worse by re-enforcing the misguided belief that there is none.

 

There should be no guilt on your part, TFS, for having witnessed such terrible things without the ability to make them come out differently. Give yourself a break man.

 

Bill

[TheFaithfulStone]

The failure was long before your story began.

 

I agree. In fact, I pretty much agree with your post 100%. It's a long damn list of failures. That same art teacher mentioned in the story above told us this story - paraphrased.

 

"Life is like a football field. Some of you start at the 10 yard line, some of you start at the fifty. Some of you start in your own endzone. Some of you will start on the field of a different school two counties away. Some of you have to slog through mud to get to the endzone, and some of you have grass to run on. I don't know how to make this fair. I don't know how to make it so everyone has an equal chance. If there is something you think I can do to help, you tell me and I'll get it done."

 

I consider that another one of those self-defining moments. I can't defend dealing dope, or pimping, but on the other hand, the playing field is a long way from level. There was no support system for Chris. It's his fault and his fault alone that he started dealing. But it's a systemic failure that made it seem like a good choice. I don't know what else he could have done - and that's what pisses me off. There will always be people that fall through the net, but I hate that the net isn't wound tighter. It takes thoughtful people like that unnamed art teacher to pull people over that wall, and there just aren't enough of them.

 

You can't climb that wall without help, any more than you can wait around for it to fall down.

 

TFS

[Rebiu]

Having been a professional athlete and competed with blacks I have found the idea of blacks having superior physical prowess is a myth.

 

There is hostility, though not always intentional, towards nonblacks that participate in black dominated athletics. It is not all pervasive yet has a wide influence on the opportunities extended to nonblacks.

 

There are cultural issues that direct a larger proportion of blacks to try some sports.

 

When I was in high school I have several black friends. Most of them mature physically much earlier than I and engaged in basketball at a level that I could not match at that time. I suspect this precotiousness may be more common in blacks, but that is a supposition on my part.

 

Consider that physical prowess is a many faceted concept. What is good for one sport is less important in other sports. Blacks do not dominate amateur wrestling, kickboxing, baseball, football, powerlifting, ect.

 

There seems to be an undeniable dominance of Marathon running by blacks. In truth it is a subset of blacks form Kenya that rule the distance running world. The evidence of their genetic superiority in this endeavor is pretty clear. They beat americanised blacks as easily as any other race.

 

My sport is mixed martial art prizefighting. This sport has a diverse racial participation. I have fought a trained with many blacks and found no generalization that accurately describes them aside from the notion that their skin is generally darker than mine.

[J.B]

I have fought a trained with many blacks and found no generalization that accurately describes them aside from the notion that their skin is generally darker than mine.

There skin is also thicker then your's.

[Rebiu]

There skin is also thicker then your's.

Is this a flame attempt? You could mean several things by this statement perhaps you could clarify what you mean and how it could possible relate to this thread.

[J.B]

Is this a flame attempt? You could mean several things by this statement perhaps you could clarify what you mean and how it could possible relate to this thread.

 

“Americans of Northern European descent tend to have thinner skin that crinkles at an earlier age than the other ethnicities,” says Dr. Hurwitz. “Moreover, Anglos seem to lose the facial fat under the skin earlier than other racial groups.”

 

The loss of facial fat leads to drooping skin and a more rapid onset of an aged appearance. However, Asians, blacks, and Hispanics tend to have somewhat thicker skin that does not wrinkle as easily so aging appears later.

 

While many plastic, cosmetic and dermatologic surgeons offer various types of skin resurfacing, with lasers, abrasives and chemicals, patients with darker skin need to be cautioned that the procedures may cause the skin to become darker.

 

Overall, surgeons have to balance any requested changes by the thickness of the skin, the amount of oil it contains, the degree of pigmentation and the quality of underlying cartilage.

http://www.dentalplans.com/Dental-Health-Articles/Minorities-More-Receiving-Plastic-Cosmetic-Surgery.asp

[MagnetMan]

“Americans of Northern European descent tend to have thinner skin that crinkles at an earlier age than the other ethnicities,” says Dr. Hurwitz. “Moreover, Anglos seem to lose the facial fat under the skin earlier than other racial groups.”

 

The loss of facial fat leads to drooping skin and a more rapid onset of an aged appearance. However, Asians, blacks, and Hispanics tend to have somewhat thicker skin that does not wrinkle as easily so aging appears later.

 

One of the greatest advantages of slavery has come via inter-racial marriages. This has helped to reinvigorate our tired blood and sagging skin.:shrug:

[J.B]

One of the greatest advantages of slavery has come via inter-racial marriages. This has helped to reinvigorate our tired blood and sagging skin.:shrug:

Have you yourself injoyed the "greatest advantages of slavery" and has this "helped to reinvigorate" you with your "tired blood and sagging skin"?

[Queso]

Have you yourself injoyed the "greatest advantages of slavery" and has this helped you with your "tired blood and sagging skin"?

I Know I havn't :shrug:

[MagnetMan]

Have you yourself injoyed the "greatest advantages of slavery" and has this "helped to reinvigorate" you with your "tired blood and sagging skin"?

 

I got my regenerative tonic back in South Africa about seven generations ago from my mother's family who came from Pondoland. I was technically classified by the apartheiod Government as a white man. But I sure can jump.