questor Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 getting back to the thread is a good idea. we have spent too much time discussing the Bible, Jesus and other man-made perceptions and superstitions. if we can use the words God and the Creator interchangeably and forget the Bible for this discussion, then can we all agree that the cosmos was either created or not? if it was not created, then how did it occur? it is hard to imagine something like our universe just happening with no intelligenceor no force behind it. nothing within our knowledge can just occur with no previoushistory behind it. the thought of something as large and orderly as the universe with its physical laws and forces (gravity, weak force, strong force, electromagnetism, et al ) just occurring out of nothing is impossible to imagine. there is no reasonable or scientific argument that can be made proving there was no creator. and the presence of these forces argues for intelligent design. if there was such a being or force, it would be the most powerful, ubiquitous, supreme presence in the universe. wouldn't we call this God? can you free your mind to think of this force without overlaying it with man-made religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryo Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 why does man need a creator or an explanation for exsistance? to me it would indicate he is searching for a purpose as a species. possibly born of frustration and boredom... the animal searches for an identity...finding none,he sets out to invent one ...man is a restless creature who is to say one way or the other if there is a supreme power out there running the show. it seems irrelevant if there is or isn't a 'god' the universe is indifferent...we could be wiped out in a matter of seconds if a meteor hit us or a deadly virus broke out. exsistance is ultimatley an impersonal event to the human brain the world simply appears when it wakes up the world disappears when it tires out and sleeps at night it (the brain) creates the world all by itself my instinct keeps telling me there is some sort of intelligence at work here...i just don't know exactly what it is i don't think we will ever know much more than we already do :hyper: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justforfun Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 why does man need a creator or an explanation for exsistance? to me it would indicate he is searching for a purpose as a species. possibly born of frustration and boredom... the animal searches for an identity...finding none,he sets out to invent one Man is a curious creature with a mind which tries to provide explanations for anything and everything. It seems inevitable that he would've developed a concept such as Gpd, whether or not one exists. John Lennon wrote that God is a concept by which we measure our pain. Thats deep. Perhaps God is the most evolved concept we had to explain the mysteries which surround us. I really think we could come up with something better by now than what was written in the Bible and other ancient documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 why does man need a creator or an explanation for exsistance? to me it would indicate he is searching for a purpose as a species. possibly born of frustration and boredom... the animal searches for an identity...finding none,he sets out to invent one Man is a curious creature with a mind which tries to provide explanations for anything and everything. It seems inevitable that he would've developed a concept such as Gpd, whether or not one exists. John Lennon wrote that God is a concept by which we measure our pain. Thats deep. Perhaps God is the most evolved concept we had to explain the mysteries which surround us. I really think we could come up with something better by now than what was written in the Bible and other ancient documents. First, i am not an atheist. i simply dont know. "God is a concept" from LennonYES :hyper: God is an idea...God is a memory...God is an image Even Moses understood the "image" *problem*. It might be better to look at *God*(the good ONE, the immensity)and not know what you are looking at. Jesus, JK, UGK, and others said...if you say you know, you dont know. For sure, i dont know anything(except for making toast etc) When i am really looking, i do NOT KNOW what i am looking at. Check it out! Dont faint. This "not knowing" is not recommended while driving a car etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryo Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 all there is is knowledge :) i can't say i do not know > 0 < i can't say i do know what tha!..... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 all there is is knowledge :) i can't say i do not know > 0 < i can't say i do know what tha!..... :) From my prev post When i am really looking, i do NOT KNOW what i am looking at. i should have said NOT KNOWING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 all there is is knowledge :) i can't say i do not know > 0 < i can't say i do know what tha!..... :)It is true... the knowledge is everpresent. One knowledge says..i know what God is Another knowledge says..i dont know what God is Check out NOTHING...not playing with knowledge. :) UGK says He has no teaching. Why? He says He doesnt know anything...any teaching then must be false. A nice feature of the NOTHING is no movement of the self(misery...fear of death...just another memory) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryo Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 'ego' says i know what 'god' is knowledge cannot go beyond itself...] ...thought may be a virus,i am not sure,i may have this virus i will go see the doc tommorow what do the dancing 'wu li masters' have to say about all fo this :) ..ug is very interesting...i have read some of his stuff :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questor Posted August 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 i do believe that no one so far has been able to visualize the universe without making it homo centric. whether the Bible exists or not is unimportant because the universe existed billions of years before human beings ocurred. whether man exists or not is unimportant to this discussion for the same reason. the important question is about the existence of a creator or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryo Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 i do believe that no one so far has been able to visualize the universe without making it homo centric. whether the Bible exists or not is unimportant because the universe existed billions of years before human beings ocurred. whether man exists or not is unimportant to this discussion for the same reason. the important question is about the existence of a creator or not. .....would'nt logic and reason say there is something behind all of this ? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryo Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 ...the whole delima is, knowledge (mind) cannot go beyond itself...so then, the question who or what is god becomes one based in sentiment the question itself has no validity..because it is born of the knowledge you already have, and that...simply stated is > you have no knowledge regarding 'god' < ...although i 'feel' there is something behind the curtain so to say my feeling or sentiment have no validity in the long run :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 I agreethere is only the body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 ...the whole delima is, knowledge (mind) cannot go beyond itself...so then, the question who or what is god becomes one based in sentiment the question itself has no validity..because it is born of the knowledge you already have, and that...simply stated is > you have no knowledge regarding 'god' < ...although i 'feel' there is something behind the curtain so to say my feeling or sentiment have no validity in the long run :)Jerry we are the philosopher/dogs that other forumscomplain about on the web. google THAT i think sinwave ***knows*** eieio :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryo Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 uh oh this is what i was warned about.... Reality ! i have become a realist after all :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 First, i am not an atheist. i simply dont know...That would make you an Agnostic, and frankly, I have more respect for the Agnostic's honesty than I have for the Atheist's self-centered egotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 That would make you an Agnostic, and frankly, I have more respect for the Agnostic's honesty than I have for the Atheist's self-centered egotism.Infamous ! good to see You ! Once a person i worked withsaid an agnostic is a personwho says they dont knowand mean it. What that really means isthat one is not BUSY KNOWING. BRB :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEL555 Posted August 8, 2005 Report Share Posted August 8, 2005 uh oh this is what i was warned about.... Reality ! i have become a realist after all :) i think i have juststumbled across somethingagain. Fear is the movement of knowledgeabout the ultimate reality. Instantaneous fear is OK.It goes when the event is over. :) BRB :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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