Glenn Lyvers Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 OK Descartes was great. BUT, let's assume for a minute that, for whatever reason, you wanted to prove you do not exist and thus discredit, or at least call into question, the logic of Descartes. Can you prove, from reason, that you do NOT exist? That is my challenge to you, the reader. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I thought I existed once. But then I Woke up in another dream. :D Then i thought i existed there, until I woke up here. Its kinda confusing. :hihi: :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 hmmm. ..Glenn can you prove that I exist? You have never met me nor seen me nor heard me nor touched me. You have read my typed responses, but can you prove that I am Pamela, a breathing ,live human being and not a computer generated program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblackalchemist Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 hmmm. ..Glenn can you prove that I exist? You have never met me nor seen me nor heard me nor touched me. You have read my typed responses, but can you prove that I am Pamela, a breathing ,live human being and not a computer generated program? So you ACCEPT you are a spammer :shrug: ? from reason i may not able to be,from philosophy i can... though would love to reason against a person, who reasons this philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 :shrug:;) What do you propose that I am selling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 ;);) What do you propose that I am selling?The question of do you exist. At the same time I could say that I am a program, that inthe time that it takes to upgrade, I run a routine that stays in RAM, therby a "dream".When the upgrade is done, everything is completely different sometimes even my chell, from the video cameras that constantly watch my mainframe. Thus the question is, an I real, or just a program. "I think, therefore, I am." For that matter, who are you. Do you exist. This could be only a computer generatedAI envyroment programmed to test my reponses to given situations. Stimulate my thought in a specific direction, and hone my skills as a diplomat. Constantly able to handle even the constant hammers and infractions, while not really breaking the rules, since i come from a different land, rules differ. Now each one of you could have an individual personality based on billions of reactions given across the planet, so each personality could just be an algarithm of that particular personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 are you sure you are in RAM and not R.E.M.?;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 are you sure you are in RAM and not R.E.M.?;) RAM REM, very litle difference. In reality I think. (therefore I am) for (thought, refrence, thought++)(thought=0define refrence=0*ranthought +1)return 0: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamela Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 not sure we are sharing the same reality;) REM[n. The rapid, periodic, jerky movement of the eyes during certain stages of the sleep cycle when dreaming takes placeRAMcomputer memory available to the user for creating, loading, or running programs and for the temporary storage and manipulation of data, in which time of access to each item is independent of the storage sequence. ]dictionary.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 According to the "map" theory. All data that the human body interprets, during R.E.M.Is constantly reprocessed even more so than while awake. The data only being accessed duringspecific intervals when the data is relevant to the current reiteration process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theory5 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I like the saying "I think, therefore I am" but it brings some stuff into question. I mean most of the kids in my school violate this philosophy. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I like the saying "I think, therefore I am" but it brings some stuff into question. I mean most of the kids in my school violate this philosophy. :-) lol:hyper: I hear, therfore i quote.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Lyvers Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Ultimately once you infer that you (you - yourself) think, then there can be little doubt that you exist. Even stating that "I am a thinking thing" starts with the word "I" and therefore separates you from those things which could be illusion, or at the very least, even as an illusion, you exist. I have to believe there is a clever way to disprove this but I am not clever enough it would seem. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK Descartes was great. BUT, let's assume for a minute that, for whatever reason, you wanted to prove you do not exist and thus discredit, or at least call into question, the logic of Descartes. Can you prove, from reason, that you do NOT exist? That is my challenge to you, the reader. :friday: My personal analysis allows that Descartes was a great Mathematician, but a sucky Philosopher. His cogito was intended to start at the absolute simplest thing he could know, but as pointed out above he should have stopped at "I" because the "think therefore I am" is a complication of "I". :) Descartes: MethodThe first great philosopher of the modern era was René Descartes, whose new approach won him recognition as the progenitor of modern philosophy. Descartes's pursuit of mathematical and scientific truth soon led to a profound rejection of the scholastic tradition in which he had been educated. Much of his work was concerned with the provision of a secure foundation for the advancement of human knowledge through the natural sciences. Fearing the condemnation of the church, however, Descartes was rightly cautious about publicly expressing the full measure of his radical views. The philosophical writings for which he is remembered are therefore extremely circumspect in their treatment of controversial issues. After years of work in private, Descartes finally published a preliminary statement of his views in the Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason (1637). ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think therefore I am. If I am not thinking, does that mean, I am not. If you are in a deep sleep, and therefore not thinking, you are not aware of yourself. You can't prove you are an am, when you are in a deep sleep. Someone else has to play the role of I am for you because you are not. You will become an am again, the next morning, when you start thinking. The unconscious mind may still be aware during sleep, but the conscious mind is not. There are two affects with Descartes more concerned with conscious awareness. He should have said, " I think 18 hours per day and sleep 6, therefore I am, 18 hours a day. The rest of the time, I am like a plant, unless the unconscious wakes me in a dream, then I am partially an am. The next day I get back to full am. But the daytime estimate isn't fully true. All habits and impulses do not always require thought. According to Descartes you need to think to be an am. So over any give day, we move in and out of am while at night during sleep, we are mostly am-less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I am not going to try to prove that I do not exist, but I will explain how I think I can prove I do exist, and thus answer why I it is the I do not, NOT exist. :) Note: I am speaking in a manner that when I refer to "I", I am referring to the humans and the human experience. Thus I am not talking about my self in this post, but rather, I am referring to the unified dialogue voice within ourselves that many of us share in one form or another. I exist because I create. If something exists it is because it is being created. Although, when I do create colors, spacial perception, smells, and other parts of reality that exist, I am not responsible for the work of actions required to do so as this is done effortlessly to my awareness. However, the more self aware I become as I age and practice self realization the more I understand how creation exists and nothing else does. I create a world (surrounding environment) out of knowledge. I is the only place a world exists. We all share the I. However, our I's are all at different levels of awareness. Remarkably, this is entangled with the notion that, prior to my I (and all I) realizations, an all encompassing I that is the full potential of I, that overtime we I's grow and expand into, was already there. As opposed to the world existing as it does, and my part is just an illusion that dreams it is taking part within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belovelife Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I tick, therefore I change. 010101010000101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010100001010101010111110101100101010101010101010101010101010101 101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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