What's Growing In Your Garden? Horticultural Science

[Turtle]

Well I guess I'm going to try my hand at cacti... I got a few little ones pretty cheap and I'll see how it goes. I have always thought that this group of plants was fascinating so I am looking forwrd to giving it a go. Anyone out there had luck, failure or tips?

___We have a cactus in the house & I water it occasionally. It seems healthy enough as it does grow & has a good green color. It's a type with rather round long (1 1/2") shoots loosely attached to the main stem. Anyway Fish, if you find out about inducing cacti to bloom, let us know. :hihi:

:hyper:

[Turtle]

___Science of the day is dendro chronology. In order to estimate the age of the 3 large Oregon oaks I freed from Ivy, I took some measurements this even, all at about shoulder height from the ground.

Oak #1 73 3/4" circumference; 24" diameter

Oak #2 64 3/4 " circumference;19 1/2' diameter

Oak #3 95" circumference; 30 1/2" diameter

 

As a reference I measured a recent dead fall limb from one of these trees at 4 1/4" diameter & counted roughly 25 rings, giving the following approximate ages of the 3 Oregon Oaks.

Oak #1; 141 years

Oak #2 114 years

Oak #3 180 years

 

:hyper:

[Fishteacher73]

While I could be wrong, it was my understanding that dendrochronology rested upon the actual number of rings (representing growing cycles and therefore corresponding to seasons which can then be extrapolated as years), and not the diameter of individual rings (although that is used to determine growing conditions such as water cycles, fires, etc).

[Turtle]

While I could be wrong, it was my understanding that dendrochronology rested upon the actual number of rings (representing growing cycles and therefore corresponding to seasons which can then be extrapolated as years), and not the diameter of individual rings (although that is used to determine growing conditions such as water cycles, fires, etc).

___The actual number of rings is a correct understanding; moreover, for an exact date a core is taken from about shoulder height. I do not have that coring tool, so I took the deadfall branch as representative, even though it is actually 25 years old. Set it as a ratio of diameter to years - in my case 4 .25" over 25 years, or 4.25/25. By the rule of ratios I replaced 30" for 4.25" & x for the unknown age & cross multiplied 25 times 30 & divided by 4.25 to find 180 years. As I said, it is an estimate; if seasons beyond the 25 year age of the branch experienced drought, the rings get smaller & so the tree actually is older than my estimate; the reverse is also the case, i.e. good years have wider rings & the tree is younger than my estimate.

___I have to yield the computer to the owner so I'll come back later & clear up any remaining misunderstanding.

:hyper:

[Turtle]

___Here is an excellent introductory article to dendro chronology:

http://www.the-tree.org.uk/EnchantedForest/treeringsandage.htm

:hyper:

___The above link references this one:

http://web.utk.edu/~grissino/

[Turtle]

___The second link above includes sources that sell the coring tool, called an increment borer; a good one is over $300 US. That puts it out of my budget, but I do have the deadfall limbs as references for extrapolation. I plan to cut a thin disk of Oak, sand it, scan it, & post it in the Science Gallery.

___The last couple of days have found me garbed in Gortex camo pants & a Scotch-guarded camo jacket & working on my slope in the rain. I have cut the Ivy stalks on at least 6 more trees, dug out the Ivy roots around 2 trees, & cut back more Blackberry canes. I have found several more variteies of trees; I suspect one is Hawthorne but I don't have a lock on it yet. I have also uncovered a number of ferns - no ID lock yet either - & carefully cut the brush from around them.

___I love working in the rain & wrapped in a blanket of fog. :hyper:

:hihi:

[Turtle]

Now in the Sciecne Gallery, my dendrochronology scan of the Oregon Oak branch; I sorely underestimated the age of these trees. I now believe the oldest (30" diameter) is at least 540 years old & the 19 1/2 inch diameter tree approximately 353 years old. This means my slope is largely undisturbed for half a millineum!!! :confused: :confused: More to come, as I believe an even large piece of branch still lies covered in brambles.

 

http://hypography.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=528&c=3&userid=796

http://hypography.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=529&c=3

:surprise:

[Turtle]

___I manage about 45 minutes to an hour working before my back & hip give out. I fell the other day climbing back up the slope & I had to catch my breath before getting up & as I lay there I realized I can call this exercise! With so many obsessions vieing(sp) for my attention, I have to find as many justifications as possible.

___It is the age of the Oaks that is also justifying more slow work; I just keep thinking what it means that they have grown here over 500 years. Only 100 yds from the Columbia River at an elevation of maybe 40 feet, it means the Columbia has not severely flooded to that location in that time. The 3 tress - all within 20 feet of one another - have erect postures, meaning the part of the slope they sit on has slipped little if any. I see no evidence of fire, but a core is necessary.

___500 years! No bugs, no wind, no flood, no people have felled these living giants. They were already old when the railroad cut by them just 100 feet away in the early 1840's or so. Who besides me has set beneath them in all that time? What have they witnessed? I rather think I trust them more than people; no tree kills a person to get a better view or derides another tree for it's affectations. When you are 500 years old, talk is slow; learn to listen slowly & hear what the trees have to say. :surprise:

[Turtle]

___C1ay's article in the Science News rang some faintly familiar bell:http://hypography.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4199

 

___When I searched for info on identifying the Oaks earlier, I found a good USDA document. From USDA Document:

Like most oaks, Oregon oak has an

obligate relationship with mycorrhizal fungi, which provide additional moisture and nutrients.

___I looked a little further:Mutualism > Obligate Relationship

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/seeu/atlantic/restrict/modules/module07_content.html

Mutualistic relationships are the only type of relationship where both individuals benefit. Usually this benefit takes the form of allowing each species to live in places where they otherwise would not be capable of doing. Mutualisms are often facultative reationships in that the two species can generally live without the other, although both do

better when they are with each other. Many mutualisms are obligate relationships, wherein both species need the other to survive and / or propagate.

___So many new questions now. Which mycorrhizal fungi does Oregon Oak need? Is it a need only for propogation? More research to come. Maybe I can get the local university extension service to send a class out & study the invasive species off of my slope? Mmmmm.... :) {Read "devilish plan"}

[Turtle]

It was raining & I went down slope to work around the Oaks. I cut a slab of Ivy & scanned it for dendrochronological view; as it was a live plant , no sanding possible. I make the age of the 2" diameter branch about 14 years; having seen larger, I estimate the infestation at 20 to 25 years.

http://hypography.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=537&c=3

I haven't identified the exact species of Hedera.

http://www.nwcb.wa.gov/weed_info/Written_findings/Hedera.htm

From the link:

There are more than 400 different English ivy cultivars, which vary in leaf shape, size, color and habit (Sulgrove 1987b). Many cultivars are sold as ornamental plants. Murai (1999) evaluated the taxonomic identity of 58 invasive ivy populations in the Pacific Northwest. She found that 80 percent of the 119 samples were derived from Hedera hibernica ‘Hibernica,’ while 13 percent were from H. helix cultivars. Both H. hibernica ‘Hibernica’ and H. helix are commonly sold as English ivy in the Pacific Northwest. Murai also examined genetics and growth rates of potentially invasive Hedera taxa. Her findings indicated that H. hibernica ‘Hibernica,’ H. helix ‘Baltica,’ H. helix ‘Pittsburgh,’ and H. helix ‘Star’ have invasive potential and should be avoided as landscaping plants in the Pacific Northwest.

:)

 

Addendum: New visitor; Least Chipmunks! Who'd 'a thunk it?

[Turtle]

___How's those gardens folks? Any Orchids, cacti, etc. blooming at your house?

___I continue to work a little here & there on my slope, & last week I cleared brush the full length of the branch I sectioned for dendrchronological analysis. Turns out, the limb is Oregon Ash, not Oak. The limb ran to the base of a large fallen Ash (about 12" -14" at the butt) which is still alive even though it's nearly flat on the ground & the root-ball ripped mostly out of the ground. It seems the Ash didn't just fall over in the wind, it was knocked down by a large Doug Fir which fell in the wind & still lies atop it.

___I have secured the use of a chainsaw this week & as soon as the Gorge winds die down I intend to put it to good purpose.

___I have also tilled up a couple small plots next to the house for vegatable gardening next year & brought a few gallons of soil from the slope bottom back up to till in. Slow, but not sure, I continue to enjoy my little borrowed woodlot.

___Diggin it,

Turtle

PS I corrected the captions on the branch scans in the Gallery to indicate Ash & not Oak. :umno: :shrug:

[Turtle]

___Besides having mis-identified the Ash, the divisions in red on the scan added to 75 & not 77 as I originally labled. (Thanks Irish!) I have corrected the image to read '75 years old branch'.

http://hypography.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=529&c=3&userid=796

___This is a very interesting topic & again here is a premier web site for the beginner & expert alike on the subject of dendrochronology.

http://web.utk.edu/~grissino/

:)

[Turtle]

___Temperature 54 Deg F.: Barometer 29.9 Inches : Partly Sunny

 

___I made it out to the slope today to clear some more Ivy & Blackberry brambles. I started out to clear around a small dead Hazel, thinking if the Woodpeckers have access there's good bugs in there. After twenty minutes or so I made a spectacular find of an enormous stone. Of what I have uncovered it is a big as a Civic and I see there is considerably more of it yet overgrown. Whether it's bedrock or a boulder, this stone is happy to see Sunlight again.

___With the leaves down, it is a great view of the evergreens locations as well as all the way to the main channel of the Columbia. I like this slope more every day.:shrug: :cup:

[Racoon]

Too bad it's landsliding away Turtle-san. Excellent thread by-the-by...

 

Lets refresh this thread....

What do you plan on putting in your Garden this Spring?

 

I am gonna try more Snowpeas.

Less Peppers, because I either don't use them, they get a blight, or they grow too late.

 

More Onions and Garlic. Get em' goin a little early..

Rotate the Tomatoes..

 

My Strawberries are finally maturing.. On their 3rd - 4th year...

Raspberries too. :cup: 2nd - 3rd year..

 

Looking to add a few good herbs! :)

[Turtle]

Too bad it's landsliding away Turtle-san. Excellent thread by-the-by...

 

Lets refresh this thread....

What do you plan on putting in your Garden this Spring?

 

:)

 

___Oh well; I got some exercise out of it & communed with some ancient trees. Short & long of it is no one couldn't care less what I did for the woodlot & I'm gettin' the boot from these digs. I only planted some garlic in the yard garden & other than that I have the one Bonsai Cypress & a potted Lemon Verbina to go.

___Maybe now Racoon I'll get a chance to come over & see your botanicals. Sounds like the Rasberries will be great this year.

___What's everyone else growing fellow Hypographians?:)

[Racoon]

___ I have the one Bonsai Cypress & a potted Lemon Verbina to go.

___Maybe now Racoon I'll get a chance to come over & see your botanicals. Sounds like the Rasberries will be great this year.

___What's everyone else growing fellow Hypographians?:hyper:

 

Anytime Turt!

Wait till things get going so I can give you a nice show. :eek:

 

The Rasberries are going hog wild! They're already starting to send up runners and get leaves. Hopefully I'll get some more berries this year in proportion to their size.

 

I need another Lemon Verbena, that you mention it. :)

Best smell in the world!!

My snow peas were kicking butt last year, my first year of trying them.

('cuz they're expensive to buy) But got a Rusty Blight and it just finished em'

Did get some nice crunchy ones though..:)

 

I'm gonna' add a few more herbs, and another Bonzai.. :shrug:

Which ones I don't know.

I may have to replace my parsley. Hopefully it makes it..

 

My green onions, in a container, are still going on the deck! :)

Surprised by that...

 

Gonna' get the Apple tree pruned soon too. Before Spring. It needs it!

Having a pro do it. its like 40 feet tall..:)

 

Still have the Bonzai Juniper Turtle gifted me. its doing great. The Bonzai Willow took a Nasty 15 foot spill off the deck . Its acting funny...

 

I could go on and on.....

I'm looking to make this a Great growing year! :)

 

How about ch' all???

[Turtle]

___The slope is on its own more-or-less, but I keep going down in the hope of finding the hand pruners I lost down there. :confused: The rains continue to soak the ground & the railroad has been re-grading the ditch along the tracks at the bottom. In the course of that they threw up a berm & it may be trapping water on my side.

___Whatever the ultimate causes, I found that a 50+ foot maple has fallen, roots & all, taking with it the crown of the only Western Red Cedar on the lot. I'm going back right now before the next storm system arrives in a few hours, and see if I can find the crown of the Cedar for a fine new walking stick.:hyper:

___(Elevations above 1,000 feet expected to receive several feet of snow in the next few days & possibility of some reaching the valley floor.)