Why Smoke when Lung Cancer is a leading cause of death?

[Michaelangelica]

Tobacco: In Wake of Smoking Ban in Bars, Restriction on Strip Clubs, Underground "Smokehouses" Appear in Cleveland

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from Drug War Chronicle, Issue #522, 2/8/08

 

Ah, the unintended -- if not unforeseeable -- consequences of prohibition. The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported Sunday that in the wake of a crackdown on strip joints and smoking in bars, a new, if shadowy, presence has made itself known on the back streets of the city: the smokehouse. These unlicensed premises offer what legal clubs and bars cannot: a place for tipplers to smoke while they drink and watch strippers after midnight. Vice cops say they also provide a haven for prostitution.

 

The smokehouses are a response to laws that took effect last year banning smoking in public places and nude dancing after midnight.

 

One Cleveland vice detective, Tom Shoulders, compared the smokehouses to the gin houses of the Prohibition era. "You put too many restrictions on people, they're going to find someplace else to go for their entertainment," he said.

Tobacco: In Wake of Smoking Ban in Bars, Restriction on Strip Clubs, Underground "Smokehouses" Appear in Cleveland | Stop the Drug War (DRCNet)

 

Health Effects of Smoking

 

ANIMATION: WHAT SMOKING DOES TO YOUR BODY

ANIMATION: WHAT SMOKING DOES TO YOUR BODY

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Smoky bar triggered fatal asthma attack - Allergies and asthma - MSNBC.com

 

O.k.....yeah.....sure ....right........

 

It's crap like this that makes me question the accuracy of studies into smoking related illnesses and everything else of the sort.

 

Although she had prescriptions for an assortment of drugs to prevent and treat asthma attacks, she was reported to only use them when she was having breathing difficulty.

 

On the evening of her death, she had no inhaler with her.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Smoky bar triggered fatal asthma attack - Allergies and asthma - MSNBC.com

A woman in her late teens died from an acute asthma attack triggered by secondhand cigarette smoke shortly after arriving at her job as a waitress in a bar in Michigan, researchers reported on Friday.

 

They said it was the first reported case of an immediate death caused by secondhand smoke.

O.k.....yeah.....sure ....right........

 

It's crap like this that makes me question the accuracy of studies into smoking related illnesses and everything else of the sort.

 

Cigarette smoke is known to trigger acute asthma attacks.

 

“We know that particulate levels from secondhand cigarette smoke in bars like this reach sufficient levels to set off an asthma attack,” Rosenman said.

 

Rosenman said the woman had asthma since age 2. Her asthma was poorly controlled. She had made four visits to her doctor in the year before her death for flare-ups, and had been treated in a hospital emergency department two to three times that year.

 

So why did she take a job where this would be a problem?:hihi: Seems a bit foolish to me.

 

Although she had prescriptions for an assortment of drugs to prevent and treat asthma attacks, she was reported to only use them when she was having breathing difficulty.

 

On the evening of her death, she had no inhaler with her.

Seems to me there is more than one cause here...:)...If a bloke doesn't bother to take his heart meds and leaves them at home, then goes to work and dies of a heart attack climbing the stairs to his office...did the stairs kill him or was it the fact that he neglected to take care of himself?;)

[InfiniteNow]

Cigarettes are still a highly addictive and insanely slow form of painful suicide.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Cigarettes are still a highly addictive and insanely slow form of painful suicide.

I'm not denying that...But when idiots publish crap like the above it does not help...particularly when your trying to convince your kids not to start...My son pointed the artical out as support for his belief that the harm caused by smoking is bunk...and that I should allow him to choose whether or not to smoke...I'd much rather he didn't...call me a hypocrit if you want.

[InfiniteNow]

All the article shows is that cigarette smoke is dangerous and that people with health conditions must take steps to treat themselves and avoid situations hazardous to their conditions, or at least be responsible enough to have their medical care devices available to them at all times if they have a need for them.

 

I'm confused how you or your son can use this as an excuse (or... justification or rationalization) to smoke. Seems a gigantic non-sequitur if you ask me. :)

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

did the stairs kill him or was it the fact that he neglected to take care of himself?

They said it was the first reported case of an immediate death caused by secondhand smoke.

In short the girl didn't use her meds as she was supposed to...which likely cause her reaction to be more severe...hence fatal. Not the best argument but in his head the govt. doesn't want us to smoke and will lie if necessary to keep us from lighting up.

 

Clearly by the article her uncontroled asthma is what killed her...the smoke was just a trigger. (My 13 y.o. had no trouble figuring this out)

[freeztar]

In short the girl didn't use her meds as she was supposed to...which likely cause her reaction to be more severe...hence fatal. Not the best argument but in his head the govt. doesn't want us to smoke and will lie if necessary to keep us from lighting up.

 

Clearly by the article her uncontroled asthma is what killed her...the smoke was just a trigger. (My 13 y.o. had no trouble figuring this out)

 

Take him to your local hospital and interview some emphysema patients, if they can talk. It's not a gov't conspiracy. The problem is VERY real!

[Michaelangelica]

Smoky bar triggered fatal asthma attack - Allergies and asthma - MSNBC.com

 

O.k.....yeah.....sure ....right........

 

It's crap like this that makes me question the accuracy of studies into smoking related illnesses and everything else of the sort.

You can't question it. there is too much overwhelming research showing very many adverse affects of smoking.

 

A few years ago an I went to dinner with an asthmatic friend for her birthday. People were smoking in the restaurant. perhaps the air conditioning was not working the best. but she got a severe asthma attack. It ruined her night and she had to go home early. It is only because she always carries heaps of medication inhalers, cortisone etc that she didn't have to go to hospital.

I can easy believe that someone could die from second- hand smoke if they were asthmatic.

 

 

Seems to me there is more than one cause here...:doh:...If a bloke doesn't bother to take his heart meds and leaves them at home, then goes to work and dies of a heart attack climbing the stairs to his office...did the stairs kill him or was it the fact that he neglected to take care of himself?:doh:

A point; but at least he had/has the CHOICE of walking the stairs. My friend did not have the CHOICE of inhaling second-hand smoke. Why should our 'night-out' and her birthday be ruined by someone smoking while eating?

How can they taste the food anyway?

 

.My son pointed the artical out as support for his belief that the harm caused by smoking is bunk..

It is not bunk.

Does he play competitive sport?

That's what keeps many Australian male youths off the fags.( perhaps I should say ciggies to Yanks?). Smoking interferes with their fitness and training.

 

I have heard it said that smoking helps "mask" some food allergies. So some people with allergies feel better when they smoke; and also find it the most difficult to give up, as they feel a lot worse going off nicotine.

 

one story you might find instructive

One year I got some tobacco seeds. Not having grown it before I asked the local Department of Agriculture to give me some advice on how to grow it. I got a free brocure from them. I had to use OVER thirty chemicals just to get them up.

I thought "bugger that" so through them into a pot an up they all came. One of the easiest plants I have grown.

I wonder how many other chemicals were used in commercial growing and harvesting and there are heaps also used in producing a cigarette so what else are you getting for your $10?

 

It is also interesting that American Indians never used straight tobacco in their pipes and only smoked on ceremonial occasions.

One herb I know they included was Lobelia (inflata ?) which contains lobaline. This works the same as nicotine but is not addictive. You can sometimes buy 'lobaline' lossanges to help reduce nicotine cravings.

 

BTW

I got my tobacco seeds from a great little seed company "Redwood City Seeds" in California.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

One herb I know they included was Lobelia (inflata ?) which contains lobaline. This works the same as nicotine but is not addictive. You can sometimes buy 'lobaline' lossanges to help reduce nicotine cravings.

where can a North Eastern "yank" get his hands on this one?

fags.( perhaps I should say ciggies to Yanks?)

Ausies use Brit slang?!? Wow...wierd....:doh:

 

Still trying to convince him not to start....would probably help if sweetie and I quit but I don't forsee this in the near enough future....Well her quitting anyway...I'm presently investigating options to figure out which involve the least amount of suffering...life sucks enough without intentionally inflicting more misery upon myself...so recomendations would be greatly appreciated from those here that have quit...particularly those that tried several times before finding a solution.

[palmtreepathos]

why??? I recall the feeling of independence and rebellion being part of the draw. A little bit of autocracy. I rule me and this is what I do. Someone mentioned the social crutch part, you may have used it as a prop for looking more cool/suave/debonair than you felt.

 

Someone said 'you will die of the other things around you, so you may as well enjoy your smokes', I believe it has been proven these things will get you faster from the effect of cigs ... it is a bit like saying because someone runs over your foot with a forklift that you may as well shoot the other toes off with fireworks. sometimes people do "bite off their nose to spite their face." Just because no one can control you , not even you, you smoke.

 

Now we are hooked... there is resentment that you are caught looking stupid but who has the time to quit? We're busy we say! Can't think about yourself that much? Right! quitting takes self interest, You have to believe you are worth it. Your kids are worth it, too! Everyone else will have the fun of puffing away while we are tortured by the stress of quitting. You aught to get mad, really MAD! Someone is making a bundle off you and they want your kids, too! Joe Cool didn't disappear out of the goodness of their hearts, some mom's and dads fought hard for kids rights to not get the twisted info that we did.

 

One of the twisted messages is that disease and stress don't happen to the beautiful people who smoke. Many of the models/actors from the ads are dead already from the big C, emphysema etc.

 

There are homepathic aids and Flower remedies to deal with your mental blockages/attitudes/moods. Believe me you smoke for a lot of reasons not JUST addiction. You may not really believe you have a future so why bother quitting? You may not have a comforting friend so light up. You are so afraid of dealing with yourself that you can't try it. Or you sneer at the though of being one of those selfrighteous folks who already have quit, yeah they sound awful but why should what they say stop you? You may be afraid of standing out as having a priciple, those aren't popular these days, just say you are being selfish, I am doing this for me, I don't care what you think. I am going to spend this money on something else, something important.

 

I can Quit. I want to Quit! I am going to Quit!

[Michaelangelica]

where can a North Eastern "yank" get his hands on this one?

 

Ausies use Brit slang?!? Wow...wierd....:doh:

we use everbody's slang; and invent new stuff daily; a fag is a cigarette.

 

Still trying to convince him not to start....would probably help if sweetie and I quit but I don't forsee this in the near enough future....Well her quitting anyway...I'm presently investigating options to figure out which involve the least amount of suffering...life sucks enough without intentionally inflicting more misery upon myself...so recomendations would be greatly appreciated from those here that have quit...particularly those that tried several times before finding a solution.

For me the only way was cold turkey.

With pipe smoking you only get mouth cancer- much easer to treat than lung cancer!

But there is no way I could have stopped with someone else in the house smoking. You need to make a pact together.

How much does it cost you per month?

Do you have health insurance

A pension fund? ( -forget that you won't live long enough to use it)

 

I fell off the wagon once or twice but fortunately my wife and family hate smoking so much and I have an asthmatic kid so I had to give up.

 

have you looked at the NSW Quitline info?

Have you checked out food allergies and hypoglycaemia?

 

I found large quantities of ginseng (10+ grams a day) helpful as it also jags the adrenal glands. In a more healthful way than nicotine.

 

A friend gave up using Ginseng cigarettes from China. Unfortunately they are banned (?) here. you might find them in a yank ChinaTown?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

why??? I recall the feeling of independence and rebellion being part of the draw. A little bit of autocracy. I rule me and this is what I do. Someone mentioned the social crutch part, you may have used it as a prop for looking more cool/suave/debonair than you felt.

 

Someone said 'you will die of the other things around you, so you may as well enjoy your smokes', I believe it has been proven these things will get you faster from the effect of cigs ... it is a bit like saying because someone runs over your foot with a forklift that you may as well shoot the other toes off with fireworks. sometimes people do "bite off their nose to spite their face." Just because no one can control you , not even you, you smoke.

 

Now we are hooked... there is resentment that you are caught looking stupid but who has the time to quit? We're busy we say! Can't think about yourself that much? Right! quitting takes self interest, You have to believe you are worth it. Your kids are worth it, too! Everyone else will have the fun of puffing away while we are tortured by the stress of quitting. You aught to get mad, really MAD! Someone is making a bundle off you and they want your kids, too! Joe Cool didn't disappear out of the goodness of their hearts, some mom's and dads fought hard for kids rights to not get the twisted info that we did.

 

One of the twisted messages is that disease and stress don't happen to the beautiful people who smoke. Many of the models/actors from the ads are dead already from the big C, emphysema etc.

 

There are homepathic aids and Flower remedies to deal with your mental blockages/attitudes/moods. Believe me you smoke for a lot of reasons not JUST addiction. You may not really believe you have a future so why bother quitting? You may not have a comforting friend so light up. You are so afraid of dealing with yourself that you can't try it. Or you sneer at the though of being one of those selfrighteous folks who already have quit, yeah they sound awful but why should what they say stop you? You may be afraid of standing out as having a priciple, those aren't popular these days, just say you are being selfish, I am doing this for me, I don't care what you think. I am going to spend this money on something else, something important.

 

I can Quit. I want to Quit! I am going to Quit!

:D

That was confusing!

 

I smoke and have smoked because I love the taste and sensation of smoking...not to look cool...not for a social crutch...definitly to send a big F.U. to those that would infringe upon my right to kill or injure myself doing stupid things ...for most of my life I'd figured on being dead by now and therefore needed not worry about dying of cancer...or eventually wanting to quit. (Quite frankly I've hated my existence for a long friggin time and wished it to be over.)

 

Now I've got a great wifey and would like to retire with her someday ...Hell maybe we'll even finally get to spend more than the few hours a week we get between racing off to our respective jobs....maybe even be able to afford to do things together. I'd like to find out.

 

This is why I am looking into quitting...B.T.W. I hate myself a little for wanting to quit... the thought of giving the anti-smokers the satisfaction of having another convert in their ranks...God I hate them! Oh well I guess there are other ways to rebell against the status quoe (soccer moms, anti-smokers, and everyone else that would seek to protect me from me). Any sugestions!?!

[Michaelangelica]

This is a very effective contact spray for most insects in the garden

Be sure to keep it away from children as it will kill them.

 

To make your own pesticide, you can first try tobacco or nicotine spray.

This mixture is highly effective against many types of bugs, especially caterpillars, aphids, and many types of those nasty worms.

For preparing this mixture, you need a cup of tobacco and a gallon of water.

First, put the tobacco into a container of water and allow the mixture to set for about 24 hours.

Check the color of the mixture after that period. If it takes the shade of weak tea, the mixture is ready.

If it is too dark, you need to dilute it with water until it looks right.

Be careful not to use this solution on peppers, tomatoes, eggplants, or any other member of the solanaceous family as tobacco chemicals can kill these plants.

How to Make Your Own Pesticide - Associated Content

[HydrogenBond]

Part of the problem is that the one size fits all approach does not sit will with everyone. Although cigarettes can be harmful, it is not a 100% correlation. The situation that arises is those who will not be affected have deny reality to satisfy the system.

 

Part of the resistance to the reality of this statement is too many people have been conditioned to believe that statistical studies are laws. They are only correlations, which are fallible. But because many wish it to be true, even if it isn't, many will go the extra steps to force conformity. One will rarely see studies that show the exceptions, since these make the law look like a half baked correlation.

 

Here is a scientific experiment. We take a group of nonsmokers of various physical parameters. We give them cigarettes to smoke and conduct tests each month to determine if/or what types of health issues arise. From this distribution of demographics, we plot health issues as a function of time. The test may last several decades before the last group starts to develop anything adverse. We can also do parallel genetic testing and try to see if we can correlate that to the data. Now we have a better screening tool that can tailor the prohibition to clusters of physical parameters. Instead of one size fits all, we now have 4-5 sizes to assess risk.

[InfiniteNow]

Part of the problem is that the one size fits all approach does not sit will with everyone. Although cigarettes can be harmful, it is not a 100% correlation.

 

You're right. It's not correlation, it's causation.

 

 

Where do you come up with this ****?

[REASON]

Well, my last cigarette was on 2/13/08 at about 10:00 pm.

 

I've been home sick with a cold the last couple of days and haven't wanted to get out so I haven't had any to smoke.

 

I figure at this point, might as well keep on quittin'. I figure I'll start collecting time. Let's see how much I can get. :)