Killean Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 GAHD and I had a conversation moments before I post this that came to this subject. I would like to know which road you would prefere to take, if you had the choice. Background Info on how it started (also to set a little scenerio):As we sat in Perkins discussing Time Travel, GAHD mentioned that he theorized a way to travel "back" in time in order to kill yourself and still exist. His theory involves paralell dimensions of alternate possibilities occuring at a present time yet each could be of different timelines in history. One of the problems that might occur is that you travel to a world that might be unstable to sustain you (which could cause instant death). I posed the question to him: Which would be worse, instant death in the way he mentioned? Or, travel to a world of pure chaos in which you could not manipulate in your favor, so you will have to survive either alone/in pain/constant torture... In essence: would you rather live in an existance filled with adversity, or no existance at all? Oops. Thanks GAHD for the title. ;) Tormod and niviene 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 You "sat in Perkins". Does that involve alcohol? You should never listen to GAHD when drinking. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Welcome to the forum! If I understand right your question, I would rather live an existance filled with adversity, because if I had the choice between adversity and none I would choose the first one, as this is the only way of life (the only one I know at least) which gives the possibility to discern between good/bad, nice/disgusting and so on. So if I had to chose the second one, then I guess I would prefer no existence at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 This is where Killean & I disagree.I would chose existance, no matter how much I had to fight or be placed in strife.Or perhapse I just havn't managed to think of something quite horrible enough yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killean Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Perkins is a family restraunt that we go to from time to time to talk. I suppose this question can be answered by few, because how can a person answer unless they actualy experienced it? Death we can only experience once but understand what it means to an extent. Pain, loneliness, torture only a minor number of people have had to go through, so it could be difficult to actualy imagine how severe each area could effect you. I have never experienced major pain or any physical torture, loneliness is my middlename, but from examples that I have seen and felt, I would prefere death over the adversity. The opposite of my choice does allow for beings to expand upon themselves and 'grow'. However, in a world of chaos you might simply be reverted into an animal who can calculate situations. No growth, but then again I could be wrong. Any Phychs on the forums who could elaborate on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 If you choose death, you have no chance of growth, if you choose life, there is a possibility, albeit slim. However, your chances of growth are infinitely better if you choose life over death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Perkins is a family restraunt that we go to from time to time to talk. Consider yourself lucky, guys. I have a friend who I go out with now and then...but apart from that it's family life all over. It's really good to have someone to talk with all kinds of weird things with (and solve the world problems while you're at it). Pain, loneliness, torture only a minor number of people have had to go through, so it could be difficult to actualy imagine how severe each area could effect you. I agree with you to some degree. But "loneliness" is, I fear, one of the most common problems among modern human beings. At least it is a hueg problem over here in Norway. Both young and old people choose to take their lives because they are so tired of being lonely. Which is a complete shame. Your entire situation is so hypothetical to me (pain, torture, going-back-in-time etc) that I don't know if I'm able to identify with it. But as one who has sufferd massive anxiety attacks in the past I know there are many ways not to feel god about one self and often this is not self inflicted. So in a way I think there is no need to travel back in time or do anything at all to end up in a horrible situation - for the person in question. Take prgmdave, who has a friend with a deadly disease, and who sees an unwillingness in the system to help because stem cell research is out of reach. For his friend this question falls back to Irish's "Death with pride" question (I hate that topic title). It becomes a question of "will to survive" and "minimum requirements for quality of life" and these things are sadly hard facts of life for a lot of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killean Posted December 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Posted by Tormod:Your entire situation is so hypothetical to me (pain, torture, going-back-in-time etc) that I don't know if I'm able to identify with it. ...... I know there are many ways not to feel good about one self and often this is not self inflicted.Yeah, I set up this hypothetical situation so as to remove any chance that normal reality could give more options (such as working with lifes lessons to find the good in it). And so it comes down to what is the worst you could imagine with the knowledge that you have, and all of that hits you at once in the world that cannot change. Posted by Tormod:But "loneliness" is, I fear, one of the most common problems among modern human beings. At least it is a huge problem over here in Norway. Both young and old people choose to take their lives because they are so tired of being lonely. Which is a complete shame.Yes it is a shame that it happens, worse yet is that some of those who do take their own lives have a chance to improve but cannot see past the suffering. To expand on the situation I posed from the start; You live in this world of suffering, you hold on tight to your will which will keep your mind clear (for the moment), and more chances then not a person would try to find something to keep him or herself going. You might find someone else to share your problems with (slim chance if the world is huge and little to no population), and you might not. You could try to make the best of what you do have (build a home, start farming etc...) but in this hypothetical world your efforts would just be wasted. "Dang, my house was destroyed, time to rebuild.","Again? Rebuild.","Rebuild.","Why bother? *pulls piece of newspaper over body, but then it blows away*". This would seem to be the world of those who do have that bullet cocked in the chamber ready to introduce it to their brain. Why continue to suffer if nothing can stop it? To aid the other side of the debate, a person could try to explore this world and see how it ticks. I mean trying to find the good within a chaotic world could just be the thing that can keep a person stable and build upon their will to live (it would take a strong realist, or an optimist on a lot of pills to come to this conclusion me thinks). While driven, there is the chance that said person could cross paths with someone they can connect with. Through the pain and constant battles it can and will strengthen the bonds that they share, and unfortunate events that occur will be obsolete if either havn't given up (takes two to tango). ;) Even if you cannot find another person to share with that doesn't mean imaginary ones will not suffice. So in essence it all comes down to, how strong do you think you are? Can you see yourself just passing through the barriers of adversity and synonymously co-exist with it (As you said Tormod: "Will to live")? Or, do you find that with little to no chance that things could improve, choose no life at all? I would take the path for life at first, but can honestly say that I would lose the drive to continue on no matter how many people (real or imaginary) that I find. Even if I found somthing to keep myself occupied it would end up being taken away. However that is my impatient side talking, and the only way to get the truth would be to cause more misfortune upon myself. But an experiment like that could be too risky for me to try so I will thankfully stay in the dark when it comes to suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Good post, Killean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 The problem with this question is that we don't know what we are getting into with the adversity. There is no true way for a person to reply to this because nobody has ever been in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 then lose the serious and delve into the philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chacmool Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 An existence filled with adversity, or no existence at all? Well, I suppose the easy answer is 'no existence', because then you automatically exclude any possibility of suffering. However, is it worth sacrificing all potential happiness too? I have had to deal with this problem in real life, and then it's even more difficult than the hypothetical question. The only good that comes from adversity is that it creates greater appreciation for positive experiences and happiness - live and learn. However, if the scales tip too far in the favour of adversity, the possible pleasure that may still be achieved is simply not enough of a motivating factor anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rahuldandekar Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Exactly, potential happiness. Being an atheist, I belive there is no existence after death, and that leads me to enjoy life to it's fullest. Even if there is adversity, there is potential happiness. I would sacrifice that happiness too if I chose not to exist. So, I will chose to exist and live through adversity, to the green plains beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 While I do seem to truly despise existence, I try to make the best of it. I truly never wanted to have kids (Not that I would get rid of them, but I feel it is a disservice to put someone else through life). This being said, I am an atheist and all that non-existence is is nothing. No harps, no halos, no brimstone. Just as Rosencrantz said, "Its like not being on a boat." As much as it sucks, its all there is, whiule I'm here might as well realize that my body might as well be a cartnival ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumab Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Man, that's depressing Fish. "all suffering comes from desire..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 ___I voted for the first choice as I wouldn't be here to vote otherwise. (Just noticed how old this thread was; nice revival new members of some old memebers muttered mutual musings). Also, a revelation to me that Ghad & Killean are personal aquaintences. ;) ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 Who has ever lived in this world without some adversity? To live, one will without question face some adversity. Maybe this poll should ask the question, "Who wants to live???". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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