Plant Shamanism: The one the Religion cant give you....

[Queso]

One trick ponies get sent to the glue factory.

 

yay for once you don't make sense to me!:hyper:

[neuroflux]

Without continuing to ramble on and on about DMT and human evolution, i hope that these few paragraphs shed light on what i am proposing. From the Responses i have got since brining this to your attention, it would seem that something like human evolution would be a great thing to discuss on a sciene forum.

In order to really get the message, Please dont think i sit around and just smoke DMT, i live a very active life, and the future of our race, and our own development is a very important matter and it would seem that it revolves around this simple tryptamine molecule.

Neuroflux........................................July 29..06

 

 

 

The future of evolution........................................................................

 

One can see that the future of evolution, heretofor a three billion year process of chance mutation and painful evolutionary selection, from this point on will be one of deliberte choice, either by a society at large, or more likely, certian individuals or groups within it.

Our future evolution will involve self directed evolution of our states of consciousness, as well as our physiology. It has been said that in many cases the evolution of life forms proceeds by the prolongaton of the juvinle form of a species. For example, humans most closely resemble the juvinile form of the apes.

Similarly, future humans may closely resemble our juvinle form, which includes a more active pineal gland.

Each new leap of evolutionary development must be viewed with trepidation by those involved.This is a very extrodanary proposal.

I propose that a clear-eyed view of our present course of development must call for extrodanary proposals.

The vision of those who have tasted the unity experince afforded by the ingestation of 5-meo-dmt, N,nDMT- will i believe give great impetus to the genetic development outlined above. A small comitted group could produce startling results in a matter of years. Once the full implications of the possibilites are grasped, one becomes committed to working toward the communication and implemenation of this vision.

 

those who's only experince with the tryptamines is with DMT. either smoked, or orally drank in a tea known as Ayahuasca may perhaps be taken aback by the thought of being in this state full time. However those who have used DMT in low doses in oral Ayahuasca analog mixtures will know that this state can be one of calm connection and profound awareness.

We now know how to take a gene out of anything and put it into anything, even ourselves.

I propose for better or for worse, that we can now take control of our own evolution genetically engineering ourselves into whatever self-image the collective unconciousness has been striving for.

Our response to the information streaming into the collective unconcious in the form of biodynamically mediated molecules, is to each toward that source of information, and to strive to intergrate ourselves more fully with it.This we do at present in a very primitive form.

However, the time is comming when we can intergrate the light filled DNA sequences from the vision plants into our own bodies.

We have the means to transform our own genetic structures, as well as other advanced lifeforms on this planet, such as dolphins.What this implies for the future in terms of evolutionary possibilites is in line, I believe, with the invitation of the realm of light.

There is a on going evolutionary tendency at work at every level of the universe to form elements into larger and more inclusive wholes called HOLONS. A holon composed of a group of elemenarty particles would be a stable atom. A holon composed of human beings

would be a group mind or group being.The experincing of group energy feilds and group minds while temporaly under the influence of the Neurotransmitters, 5-meo-DMT,N,nDMT and Pinole, leads one to imagine that the future holon that our race may become could include this vitimin supplementation as a part of our normal development.

Biological evolution is indeed at a unique point in its journey.

[TheBigDog]

I think there is a distinct line between evolution and engineering. Evolution only happens when a trait influences reproduction, either giving favor to it, or preventing it. Engineering requires science to alter genetic codes artifically creating new traits, and then favoring them over natural traits to keep them within the human genome.

 

How exactly are you proposing that humanity will change if a few people have psychodelic visions?

 

Bill

[CraigD]

It has been said that in many cases the evolution of life forms proceeds by the prolongaton of the juvinle form of a species

The biological term for this is neoteny. Though, as with many speculative, anthropological ideas, there’s controversy over the validity of the claim that humans are neotenous species of chimpanzee, it’s not a new or unrespected hypothesis – popular scientist Stephen Gould and Desmond Morris are both supporters it.

 

The idea is not more widely known, I think (Of the half dozen or so professional biologists with whom I’ve had occasion to discuss the term, not one recognized it) is that it’s a “that’s nice – but what good is it” kind of hypothesis, with no obvious application to practical science. Science fiction has made good use of the idea, though, in the form of speculating as to what a true adult human might look like, if our neoteny could be undone. Larry Niven’s ”Pak” extraterrestrial human ancestor race stands out as an flamboyant yet deeply thought-out example.

 

I’m unsure how the idea figures into neuroflux’s proposal, however – if related to the “stoned ape” hypothesis that his proposal seems to build upon, neoteny would appear to be a prerequisite for drug-influenced evolution, not a consequence.

A small comitted group could produce startling results in a matter of years.

I’m skeptical of this, because small, committed, (not to mention smart and charismatic) groups of people (eg: Timothy Leary, Terence McKenna) have spent decades attempting to produce such results. While most such efforts focused on LSD, or, more recently, MDMA, not DMT, to date they seem to have made little progress in transforming society. Despite what the prophesy of the Leary-esque character played by Dennis Hopper in the 1990 movie “Flashback” that “The ‘90s are going to make the ‘60s look like the ‘50s”, the expected social transformation doesn’t appear to be happening. If anything, the “’90 made the ‘50s look like the ‘60s.” :Shrug Though tending to favoring LSD, the hallucinogen proponents of the 1960s were not as a group unfamiliar with DMT, so I’m skeptical that the fault lies in the choice of drugs. Human society appears resistant to the proposed transformation.

 

Again, where reality proves inadequate, fiction is rife with society-transforming drug references, from the “Soma” of Huxly’s 1932 novel ”Brave New World” to the vending-machine-dispensed designer drugs of Silverberg’s ”The World Inside”, and weirder examples to numerous to catalog. While Huxly depicts “Soma” as oppressive, Silverberg’s drugs were uplifting, though his world was still something of a dystopia.

 

Throughout history and before, there does appear to be at least one drug exerting a pervasive, shaping influence on society – alcohol. Nearly from the moment we upright, big-brained apes learned how, alcohol appears our clear favorite way to get stoned. There’s even an offbeat anthropological theory that grain-cultivating human societies edged-out hunter-gatherer and fruit-and-vegetable-cultivating societies not due to ecological or cultural factors, but because of their superior booze.

 

While calls to social revolution like Neuroflux’s are attractive, they remind me of a quote from the late 1960s – early 70s ”Whole Earth Catalog” that left an enduring impression on my then young psyche:

“You can’t put it [the world] all together – it is all together”

- meaning, when looking to start a revolution, be careful one’s not already in progress, but outside of your awareness, hiding in the mundane.

[neuroflux]

Nice one.

 

In theory, im proposing what happens along the likes of the hundredth monkey happening.

Could the children of people who have been ingesting this molecule possibly be born with more active pineal glands?

Maybe this information will give society a chance to "de-calcify" our own pineal glands, and maybe add something into our diet that would give us access to this realm all the time.

 

When you ingest tryptamines, it's like slipping on a pair of Infra-red goggles. And it would appear that this realm is active and highly particpatory in the way this realm works. Like a lense that focuses your attention.

the question would be the.

What would happen and how would this type of new "Chemical lense" help us?

Seritonin is the chemical lense of the waking world.

Melatonin,DMT,Pinoline are the chemical lenses when we dream and sleep.

Im proposing that DMT helps to relenquish the fear of Death.And will help us learn more about this state, is it intermediary between another life?

If DMT is released at a natural death, then having a "Littledeath" by ingesting DMT will help the transistion greater. Yet that doesnt explain the crazy elfin matnis type abductions, and visitations by these seemingly disencarted entities.

there are two churches that center around the use of DMT now. Maybe looking into these two groups and how DMT helps them will yeild results.

Its too new to say. I do think that LSD had a great impact on the western world. I think that eventually DMT will have a greater impact, because it is a endegenous Neurotransmitter, and not a synthesis of a Rye Mould.

When one surfs the web and really reads the trip reports and studies taken on by intrepid trippers, it would appear that there is more to this molecule than meets the eye.

Any thoughts?

NF

[ughaibu]

Experiment with fast breeding, short life span animals.

[neuroflux]

A little information about one of the DMT church's:

As well as a great writeup on this issue that this thread deals with.

Worth reading,

http://www.santodaime.org/archives/alex1.htm

[C1ay]

Any thoughts?

NF

Sure, list the studies of long term effects and their results regarding this molecule. Surely everyone would agree that safety comes first. Just what is the potential for exposure to detrimental long term affects?

[TheBigDog]

Yet that doesnt explain the crazy elfin matnis type abductions, and visitations by these seemingly disencarted entities.

:confused:

 

Could you clarify what you are talking about at this point?

 

Bill

[Turtle]

I just think that the opponents, and Turtle as of current you are counted as being on the "otherside" of the debate, have not given this topic the same concideration as they have to other (more socially acceptable) topics in the past.

 

Wouldn't it be ironic if Turtle were a pot smokin', acid droppin', alchohol swilling, tobacco puffin', cacti eaten', toady lickin', mushroom smokin', coca leaf chewin', poppy pod ooze gettin', autist shaman?

 

Well wouldn't it? :confused:

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

 

Here's a tidbit on the crusty pineal:

The findings suggested that the pineal gland plays an important part in directional sense and that damage to the gland, as indicated by calcification, causes defective sense of direction - perhaps by altering the intrinsic intracranial electromagnetic environment and thus affecting the magnetite response mechanism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=3936572&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

No clarification that I can find yet on "the magnetite response mechanism".

Kaffee bitte?;)

[neuroflux]

Because DMT is a naturally occouring tryptamine, there is no known harmful effects from ingesting it. Although i found some interesting information here:

 

Further effects include:

 

* A feeling of the body or blood ‘turning to stone’

* Vivid kaleidoscopic visuals; eventually separation from body and/or setting may occur

* Feelings of the heart stopping or other body functions seeming out of time (the heart doesn’t actually stop during this time)

* Journeying “into space” and conversing with mythological beings (dwarves & elves; God(s); aliens)

* Intense psychological/spiritual revelations

* Inability to talk, perhaps some nonsensical babbling

 

The dangers of using DMT/5-meo-DMT include vomiting and choking, conking your head when you become immovable from the intensity of the trip, and having an unpleasant or scary trip. An overdose of DMT/5-meo-DMT is hard to reach as its overwhelming effects are felt immediately, making it physically difficult to intake more than a dose before you’re well on your journey. DMT/5-meo-DMT does not make the best party drug because of its intensity; it can make music and crowds too much to deal with. Smoking DMT/5-meo-DMT is not known to be harmful to the body.

 

 

DMT/5-meo-DMT is best done in a quiet atmosphere with a partner or small group where you can control the ambience, and have access to anything needed for a comfortable journey. Most importantly though, it should be at a time when you are most comfortable with who you are and where you are going in life. Like other psychedelics, the effects of DMT/5-meo-DMT rely on everything that you have rattling around in your head. So if you’re particularly uncomfortable with how you’re feeling or in an uncomfortable atmosphere, it probably isn’t the best time for a life-altering trip.

 

http://www.tripproject.ca/march/drugContent.php?info=researchchemicals

 

As far as the "Manits elfin gods" go it is exactly as i say. If you get a big enough toke, you snese become soaked in a completely different reality. Kinda like putting on a pair of VITRUAL REALTIY goggles. Except it is behind your eyelids, when i get a big enough toke and sit in the dark, it doesnt matter if my eyes are open or closed, it is that potent.

 

Peopel have been mentioning toads here, and i wanted to say something about that.

The Mayans were the first to i know of to smoke the Venomof the Bufo toad. they had a Temple dedicated to it. and the symbol was three Dots in a triangular pattern.

I have smoked the tryptamines from the back of toads before and it is quite amamzing.

Although there is more 5-meo-DMT than N,n DMT in their venom.

5-meo DMT is trance inducing, while the other gives you the visuals.Bufotine is relativly toxic in high doses, and is not from the brain. yet is psychoactive at small levels.

 

If you are not familar with DMT tryping, i suggest reading some tryp reports online to familarize yourself with what people are talking about when we mentioned aliens, and insect gods.

My tatto artist at: http://www.spectraleyes.com is a great way of visualizing these dimensions.

Peace

 

Neuroflux

[InfiniteNow]

I've heard that shooting up heroin feels pretty good too. It comes from the poppy seed, so is really natural. Can't be bad for you for these reasons, huh? It teaches chemistry too. You place in in a spoon with some water and hold a lighter to it, you learn all about change of state.

 

One sided arguments are easy... try looking at all perspectives.

[neuroflux]

I have found no research to this date that proves DMT is harmful.

 

As far as it is compared to Heroin i dont get your point. I ws a heroin addict for 2 years, it completely wrecked havoc on my life, it destroyed my self of self and my sense of family.

DMT doesn nothing of the sort.

It is so intense that some will not try to do it again.

But like ive said and others who have done research, it is completly harmless. That is why i think we should look into this more as a research chemical, we are reserarching "conciousness" in a form that defys normal brain functioning.

Basically we are activating the part of our brain when we dream at night. that is why i like to call it "dreaming myself awake".

 

NF

[InfiniteNow]

I have found no research to this date that proves DMT is harmful.

Took me less than a minute, and I found this pretty informative section which also speaks to the issue of available research information:

 

 

http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_391.html

 

However, as Ciprian-Ollivier and Cetkovich-Bakmas (1997) point out, the mechanisms involved are complex and consequently little effort has been made until recently to study the possible role of indolamines in the pathogenesis of psychoses. Problems studying this relationship also arise due to the Controlled Substance Act of 1970 which makes the legal acquisition and usage of these drugs very difficult in the United States. Nevertheless research in this area has unearthed many connections between both the subjective and objective effects produced by schizophrenia and psychedelic drugs. Both can create hallucinations, euphoria, Ego-disorders, affective changes, loosened associations, and cognitive fragmentation (Vollenweider et al, 1997, 1998; Ciprian-Ollivier and Cetkovich-Bakmas, 1997). Classical

[neuroflux]

Below is a conversation with Dr. Rick Strassman, who did the DMT research. It is a good introduciton into his views about the spirit molecule.

 

 

 

Dr. DMT

BY ALEXANDER ZAITCHIK

03.27.2006 | SCIENCE

 

Among the most powerful synthesized molecules, none are as hard to find or pronounce on first sight as N,N-dimethyltryptamine. Known by its World Wrestling Federation-slash-monster truck sounding initials, DMT, the Waldo of the psychedelic family is not designed for partying or daytripping through the park, so you'll rarely find it in your local candy store next to Mickey Mouse blotter acid. Those who do manage to track it down will find their search rewarded by an event of relatively quick duration; emphasis on relatively. The DMT trip by intramuscular injection, easily timed by a stopwatch, is the biggest blast-off of them all.

 

Because of DMT's unique power, its acolytes form a sort of elite psychedelic strike force -- the Army Rangers of Inner Space. There are exclusive DMT chat rooms for the initiated, and DMT support groups for those who come out the other end of a trip with a need to meet others who have seen the same things, and met the same "beings."

 

These "beings" are at the rapidly beating heart of the DMT experience as documented by Rick Strassman, a professor at the University of New Mexico medical school who in 1991 commenced the first official psychedelic research program in the U.S. since 1970. In 2001, Strassman published his findings and post-experiment speculations in DMT: The Spirit Molecule (Park Street Press). Five years later, the book continues to sell steadily, and is even acquiring something of a low-key cult status.

 

Despite its clinical voice and lab-coat skepticism, few of Strassman's professional peers knew what to make of The Spirit Molecule. The book opens up some Very Big Questions about the Nature of Reality. It entertains all manner of cosmic speculation about parallel universes and inter-species communication. Driving this speculation is a peculiar recurring experience reported by more than half of Strassman's subjects. After a high-dose DMT injection, these volunteers report "making contact" with thin, alien-like beings. These accounts often mirror those of the alien abductees who have become postwar punch lines, famous for their small-town homes and probed anuses.

 

Strassman's subjects are less easy to caricature. They were an educated, skeptical and psychedelically experienced group. Many of these volunteers describe being carried through a tunnel and deposited in a dazzling, brightly colored advanced civilization where they are surrounded by dominant beings that usually communicate some variation of the same message: "We've been waiting for you." Many report being prodded or questioned by these beings. I have heard the climax of the film version of Carl Sagan's Contact described as a passable filmic approximation of the experience.

 

"The 'life-forms' looked like clowns, reptiles, mantises, bees, spiders, cacti, and stick figures," writes Strassman in The Spirit Molecule. "It still is startling to see my written records of comments like, 'There were these beings,' 'I was being led,' 'They were on me fast.' It's as if my mind refuses to accept what's there in black and white.

 

"I was neither intellectually nor emotionally prepared for the frequency with which contact with beings occurred in our studies," writes Strassman.

 

"Nor the often utterly bizarre nature of these experiences. Neither, it seemed, were many of the [psychedelically experienced] volunteers. Also surprising were the common themes of what these beings were doing with so many of our volunteers: manipulating, communicating, showing, helping, questioning."

 

Strassman's findings were not the first in the scientific literature to describe DMT-induced "contact." A DMT study from the 1950s reveals what Strassman calls "eerily consistent reports" of similar encounters.

 

Five years after the publication of Spirit Molecule, and in the centenary of Albert Hoffman's birth (the Swiss godfather of all psychedelic research), Freezerbox spoke to Strassman about the state of the field, the FDA, and why the pineal gland may hold a secret of the universe or two.

 

Five years on, has The Spirit Molecule accomplished what you'd hoped in terms of "expanding how we perceive nonmaterial worlds"?

 

I wrote the book for the educated thinking layman, and to that extent, I'm happy with its success. Sales continue steady. The book has elicited very little reaction from the academic psychiatric community, which is more or less what I expected. My hope was not that it would stimulate clinical research with these drugs; but rather to get people thinking more about psychedelics, and their role in our lives.

 

I would have expected your book to reactivate the dormant field of serious psychedelic research�

 

I am surprised not much more has been accomplished in the clinical research field since I left it nearly 11 years ago. People are very timid and circumspect, generally, in studying these drugs. No one has picked up on our DMT research where we left off; no LSD studies. And the psilocybin studies, at least the published studies, have been modest in their scope and have used low doses.

 

The Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies is trying to get FDA approval for a new LSD project. Are you a part of this effort?

 

I'm not involved with the MAPS LSD protocol, which again, is rather modest in scope and dose. I did have permission to begin a dose-response study with LSD, similar in nature to the original DMT study. I had the drug in hand, but by that time I was winding down with the research effort in general, and did not begin the study.

 

Judging by your website, you seem occupied with other things these days.

 

No more clinical research for me. I live in Navajo country right now, and before that, northern New Mexico -- both hotbeds of sheep, wool, and weaving. Also, I find myself drawn to studying Hebrew texts and commentaries, in an attempt to further understand the role of endogenous DMT.

 

You write about the pineal gland as a possible source of endogenous, or natural, DMT. Is it the "Spirit Gland"?

 

Focus has been on the pineal for the last 50 years or so as a producer of the hormone melatonin, which has an important role in circadian and seasonal rhythms of mood, behavior, and physiology. In the book I put forth a lot of ideas regarding its possible role as a mediator of "psychedelic" experiences, naturally occurring ones, via its production of psychedelic tryptamines, such as DMT and/or 5-methoxy DMT.

 

How do your theories regarding pineal fluid dovetail with those of Katsuki Sekida, the Zen teacher who studied the physiology of Zen meditation and claimed to show how meditation can wrench open the pineal gland and squeeze out its possibly psychedelic juice?

 

I'm not familiar with Sekida or his work. Do realize that my pineal-DMT theory is only a theory, and has not been established as fact. I do muster a lot of compelling circumstantial evidence for a pineal-DMT link, but it's not been rigorously examined yet. Nonetheless, there are other sources of DMT in the body that are well established; for example, blood, brain, and lung. Also, the human DMT synthesizing enzyme has been found, cloned, and injected into a virus. When this virus infects cells in the test tube, those cells produce DMT.

 

Have pro-life groups attempted to publicize or use in any way your theory about "spirit" entering the fetus on the 49th day after conception, when pineal fluid is first produced?

 

No, actually not. I was thinking this might happen, but it hasn't. Maybe no one in either camp has read my book!

 

You've both lobbied and advised the Food and Drug Administration. How influenced is the FDA by other fed outfits like the DEA and national drug policy generally?

 

The FDA was doing what it's supposed to do, with respect to my research application. It wasn't going to make it easy for me, but they weren't going to make it impossible. They just wanted to make sure I was reasonable, rigorous, safety-oriented.

 

I haven't had anything to do with FDA for over 10 years, so I can't really comment on how they are now. At the time I was lobbying them for my work, they were more providing input to the DEA, rather than the other way around. And DEA was quite receptive to FDA's advice regarding scientific merit and safety of my studies.

 

Before LSD research came to a screeching halt, there was a lot of buzz about the possibilities for curing schizophrenia and alcoholism, prison recidivism and violent behavior. Should this be the focus of future research?

 

There are many levels at which to study psychedelics. Research is one way -- that is, generating data about psychedelics' utility as psychotherapy adjuncts, and understanding brain-mind interfaces. These are data-generating models, in which case "help" for people with illnesses or disorders may also be provided. There certainly are other ways to take psychedelics -- the shamanic and religious/spiritual; and the hedonic. Each of them, I believe, has its place.

 

You mentioned the quiet peer response to The Spirit Molecule. Did any of your colleagues guffaw at the talk, however speculative, of parallel universes and conscious beings awaiting subjects at the end of worm-hole tunnels?

 

A few psychiatrists and scientists (or so they have seemed, based upon their reasoning and use of data) have called me crazy. But it's been a surprisingly small number.

 

But no converts.

 

Not that I know of, at least among the established scientific/psychiatric community. However, I get a lot of gratifying e-mail from students, or prospective students, who want to do research with psychedelics, as a result of their reading the book. Then, I don my hat as career counselor, and freely give advice.

 

I had a conversation recently with a guy who had just smoked DMT. He described these goddess spirits and pixies that greeted him, just like the aliens and the clowns frequently described by your volunteers. He said another thing that echoed your test subjects: That the beings conveyed to him the idea that they'd been waiting for him.

 

That's a very strange aspect of DMT, the "beings" expecting the arrival of the imbiber.

 

Along with total mind-body separation, it seems to be the seminal part of it for a lot of people.

 

It's pretty characteristic of a very high dose of DMT.

 

When I mentioned your study and the many identical descriptions of "alien and clown" beings, my friend surmised that those forms were the result of the hospital environs of your study, and said that a beach at sunset, which is where he imbibed, will produce softer, more lovely beings, like his pixies. What do you think?

 

The aliens and clowns are a universal motif; I don't think the hospital influenced their form. But, it's possible the intrusive experimentation type visions were related to the hospital. Nevertheless, there are plenty of such visions in people who've been "abducted," which I believe in some instances may relate to endogenous DMT release. And flying saucers and alien motifs certainly crop up in Ayahuasca sessions in the Amazon, among people with very little exposure to the west; for example, Pablo Amaringo's images in Ayahuasca Visions, a book he co-authored with Luis Eduardo Luna.

 

I've not conducted tests outside the hospital. But, when I was interviewing people who had smoked DMT, before I began my study, in order to learn more about what to expect, I heard many reports of people encountering all manner of beings. Some of the beings in our studies were frightening, but many were quite beneficent and supportive.

 

Does your mind still "refuse to see what's there" as you write in the book? How has your thinking evolved over the years?

 

I'm certainly much more comfortable with letting in the idea that DMT regularly gets people somewhere that they encounter beings. I am less nervous about suggesting this is somehow an experience of an "inhabited" non-corporeal/"spiritual" realm.

 

DMT seems to be unique among psychedelics, and drugs in general, in that it can be very tough to find. Also, the impact on people, for such a short trip, is incredibly powerful and long-lasting.

 

It does seem more reliable than most other "classical" psychedelics to cause a dissociation of mind and body, and to allow entrance into "other realms." Whether this is a function of its rapidity of onset not allowing people to resist or manipulate its effects, or whether it is a function of some unique pharmacology, isn't clear to me. Whether it is unique qualitatively in terms of where it seems to lead people is debatable, but many people seem to believe it is. It certainly is unique in terms of its time course among the classical psychedelics. On the other hand, Salvia Divinorium, which is unlike DMT and other classical drugs in its pharmacology, also has a very rapid onset, and also provides access to "other worlds" quite reliably.

 

Speaking of classical psychedelics, I was surprised to learn in January that Albert Hoffman, who first synthesized LSD-25 the year Hitler met Chamberlain at Munich, was alive to celebrate his 100th birthday this year. Were you at the Basel bash?

 

I wasn't in Basel, but I did have tea with Dr. and Mrs. Hofmann some years ago at their home. I think he's a fine man. I was so impressed by his humility -- he drove to our hotel to pick us up. He was proud of his home and property -- loved showing us his plants, his grounds. He also had a one-lane swimming pool in his house, which I thought might be key to his amazing longevity.

 

What do you think about nominating Hoffman for the million-dollar Templeton Prize, the prestigious award that recognizes "progress toward research or discoveries about spiritual realities"?

 

That's a good idea!

 

What's your take on the old Aldous Huxley-Tim Leary debate. Was Huxley right in warning against the popularization of psychedelics in the early-60s? Or was Leary right to spread the word, whatever the fallout. . .

 

I thought Leary was a great popularizer -- while Huxley was more of the cloistered, "leave it to a small cadre of initiates" type. I think both views have their pro's and con's. For example, many of us would never have tried psychedelics if it weren�t for Leary's popularizing them. These drugs really set up projections of other people onto you, however, and I think perhaps Leary succumbed to these projections more than Huxley did. That is, it seems he may have started saying things more for the reaction he expected, than for the truth of the matter.

 

Finally, your advice to those interested in making the DMT leap.

 

I never advise people to take drugs, nor to break the law. If someone believes he or she must take DMT, they ought to be as prepared as possible. Letting go in the early stages of the intoxication is critical to a successful experience, so anything that can help the process of letting go should be developed beforehand -- for example, meditation, working with a therapist about anticipated blocks or fears that might emerge. I also used to tell our volunteers that sometimes they may think they've died; and there are two ways to react to that. One is to freak. The other is to try and keep your bearings -- something to the effect, "Well, I seem to have died. Let's see what's next."

[Queso]

I've heard that shooting up heroin feels pretty good too. It comes from the poppy seed, so is really natural. Can't be bad for you for these reasons, huh? It teaches chemistry too. You place in in a spoon with some water and hold a lighter to it, you learn all about change of state.

 

One sided arguments are easy... try looking at all perspectives.

 

ahhh...

Feels like a dream,

a lethargic, itchy, euphoric, and immobile dream.

 

You're so silly. I can't believe you would actually compare Heroin to DMT.

 

HAHAHAHAHA

 

We ARE looking from all perspectives here, InfiniteNow, That's what DMT is all about!!

 

Everywhere at once,

Orbsycli

[InfiniteNow]

ahhh...

Feels like a dream,

a lethargic, itchy, euphoric, and immobile dream.

 

You're so silly. I can't believe you would actually compare Heroin to DMT.

 

HAHAHAHAHA

Wasn't comparing the two... it's called an analogy. :couple:

 

 

Cheers mate. :shrug: