The U.S. Government is Disgusting

[paigetheoracle]

By the way life is a market place and when you've got bored with The Amazing Randhi and his tricks, you do move onto other mansions don't you?

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Rulers

The best rulers are scarcely known by their subjects;

The next best are loved and praised;

The next are feared;

The next despised:

They have no faith in their people,

And their people become unfaithful to them.

When the best rulers achieve their purpose

Their subjects claim the achievement as their own.

 

TaoDeChing - Lao Tze

 

Some things never change?:hyper:

Great quote!

My favorite is the first line, "The best rulers are scarcely known by their subjects". That implies either a hell of a good system that has taken the place of people (my wish), or a government made up of folks who understand that the 'governed' can take care of themselves if RIGHTS are built in and comprehended and protected (In my mind there is really only 1: The right to own property. My life being the main thing that I own - but no less protected than my physical property).

Would it be a corolary to say that to the extent I have to put up with being bombarded with the faces of my politicians, I can assume they are not the best 'rulers'?

[Queso]

woke up to two pages, nice-

 

So what it seems like . .

 

There's nothing I can do to change this insanity,

 

(yeah rac, the media and political corectness are so absurd!

I sit and listen to what my parents listen to on "the news"

and it makes me want to explode)

 

TODAY A YOUNG BOY WAS RAPED AND DEJAWED

 

AL QUEDA SAYS THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR BLAH BLAH

 

A KOALA HAS WET TAIL

 

awww how cute, the koala made all of that disgust worth watching, 'cause he's o So cute.

 

And I love how they deliver it all.

 

They deliver it with that same, STUPID

tone of voice,

Shuffling thru their fake paperwork

in fine suits

 

So if I tried to change anything, I'd get killed.

 

This is very true, something I've known for a long time. Our government is very good at making important people look like they accidentally die.

 

It seems that the only thing to do from here is to manipulate, with a smile.

What else am I supposed to do? seriously,

 

I don't WANT to play with money,

but if I want to experience the transcendental ecstacy of playing a sitar on mescaline, I'm going to need to buy a sitar,

harvest some san pedro,

and buy food.

(unless I go to india and learn the trade of hollowing out gourds,

but how will I get to india? oh yeah, money.

Unless I was a stowaway on a ship . .

but c'mon now-

I am no where near that ninja status

even being a black belt

i could never ever maneuver something like that.

Or maybe I could and I should learn how,

travel the world for free, uncomfortably

like a free slave)

 

I tried to live a life in california with no money,

and it did not work out at all.

 

I retreated back here to florida,

menaced.

 

I'm not blaming anybody for anything, like I said, just disgusted.

I can't believe that this is our existence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can't believe everyone is tuned into television

and NOT

their hypnagogic imagery!

 

That stuff is more amazing than television will ever be,

and once you enter a state of sleep paralysis it becomes so vivid

you can create your own worlds, scenarios,

 

even ride dragons,

all while laying down.

This is why I live.

to dream.

 

This place is absolutely insane!

 

(humans eyes, ornaments

humans eyes, ornaments)

[Queso]

America has cornered me.

 

Please teach your children how to survive,

and not how to waste away,

like I was taught.

 

At least I can dance,

but the beaches are regulated with pigs

who will never dance.

[TheFaithfulStone]

but the beaches are regulated with pigs

who will never dance.

 

Wow.

 

Orb, if you want to change the world, be a poet.

 

TFS

[IDMclean]

I didn't say what change I wished to enact, I enact my own change through my life and I have spoken on it on several occasions. As I have said I am a socialist, and a Direct-?Democrate?/Neo-Anarch.

 

I believe in the system that will ultimately beat America into the ground, without lifting a finger. Marx said that social revolution would happen on it's own. A country that is focused on not changing is infinitely harder to change than a country that is commited to change.

 

It's like this. Two countries will be going for world super power in the next fifty years. India and China. Direct-Democracy versus Communistic Dictatorship (is that correct, I haven't done extensive research regarding the exact structure of China). I am fairly certain that India will come out on top. America is going to go into a decline in the next decade or two. It's going to become hard to live here. Not nessessarily world stopping, but more difficult than most can remember.

 

This will be due to a number of factors the first and foremost is our military. Hugely extensive, highly expensive, and terribly unneeded.

 

Our goverment lies, and usurps authority. I have no doubt in my mind that something is arye with the whole 9/11, and subsequent senarios. Doesn't take goverment competence, only civilian apathy/indifference for great tragedy to occur.

 

Orby, know that in the end, the USA is built as a house of cards. Take one lie out of it, and the whole thing will come crumbling down. We will have to change, or we will not adapt, and we will fade from the books of history. Justice, and good always prevail because on a whole they have to, that we are still here are testament to that.

[Southtown]

woke up to two pages, nice-

 

So what it seems like . .

 

There's nothing I can do to change this insanity,

You like having something to complain about. You have repeatedly shown everyone that you're not interested in taking any action.

[IDMclean]

Thank you Prgmdave, for your disrespect of my reaction to the WTC event. I indeed laughed, and knew that it was to be. At that point, there was nothing more that I could do other than laugh at the "bad guys". A short thought. The first three planes hit their targets, without going into conspiracy stuff. The fourth crashed, and killed all aboard, but never reached it's intended target.

 

The people of the fourth plane give me pride. I know that they fought back. Their sacrifice saved many. The first three planes? Men with box cutters were unchallenged by the 200+ passangers? I find that incredulious, but makes sense, people want to live. It takes the one who know's their life is at it's end to sacrifice one's self for the greater good.

 

Another word on Conspiracy, and Mob/Social/Political control. Orby, my friend if I may call you by such a familar title, that you believe you have no power is what those who would control you would wish you to believe. Martin luther King Jr. said there is three ways of meeting oppression. One is Acquiescence, Two is Violent Resistence, and Three is Non-Violent Resistence. The only moral choice is that of Non-Violent Resistence, this is not to be mistaked for Passive Resistance, as it is active.

 

The first step in training a slave, is breaking their will (K-8), second step is Indocternation (9-12), third step is training (13+).

 

Know thy self. Know that all the jewels of the world are not as valuable as you are. Know that you are not unique, but you are none-the-less immensely significant.

 

Don't let life get you down.

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Orbcycli, find some friends who'd like to have an adventure and go up to the boundary waters of Minnesota for a couple of weeks. Get tents, canoes, cooking equipment and food and get away from all of this for a while. Find out what life without luxury is like. Get in touch with your ancestors and see what they had to do to survive. That is the best thing you could do this summer. I absolutely guarantee you'll come back with a different perspective on things. Of course, it is a terrifying experience at first...

When you're in the 'wilderness' simple things like taking a crap become a chore. You'll appreciate what you have when you get back. If you need equipment, I'm sure there are folks who'd lend it to you.

[paigetheoracle]

Orbcycli, find some friends who'd like to have an adventure and go up to the boundary waters of Minnesota for a couple of weeks. Get tents, canoes, cooking equipment and food and get away from all of this for a while. Find out what life without luxury is like. Get in touch with your ancestors and see what they had to do to survive. That is the best thing you could do this summer. I absolutely guarantee you'll come back with a different perspective on things. Of course, it is a terrifying experience at first...

When you're in the 'wilderness' simple things like taking a crap become a chore. You'll appreciate what you have when you get back. If you need equipment, I'm sure there are folks who'd lend it to you.

 

Good idea and the first practical solution: Change the things you can, accept the things you can't and go on holiday to forget it all. The solution is not to but into the world as that is how it controls you - fight the quicksand or Tar Baby and you're worse off than letting things be. Things can't get any worse? Oh yes they can if you join the fight and add to the destruction rather than play The Wild Card and act like a Contrary Warrior (Zen Koans are for this purpose too). You think any of this actually makes sense? Get caught up in it and you'll go down with it. Buy into the illusion and it will cost you your life, whether it's pro or anti - and I don't mean your body but your mind and spirit as well (Depression like Orb or the madness of King Lear). If you follow things through to their logical conclusion - logic will conclude you. Only insane behaviour makes sense because it leaves simple reasoning behind and stops you walking down the cellar steps into the darkest recesses of your mind. If you want to go there, fine but joy is not to be found there. However don't we all go down (like holding a balloon under water)for the sheer joy of letting go and seeing where it takes us? You can float on the surface forever but it is contrasts that help us see the light (enjoy difference). I hope this (doesn't) make any sense to anybody?

[TheBigDog]

I perceive a tendency toward criticality in postings about the governments. And on this thread the US government in particular. Even those who step in to defend or argue against the most heinous accusations of evil and conspiracy seem to concede that while the US government may not have organized 9/11 - they are still evil. Pessimism about the US seems to rule the day. And it reaches lows of darkness that I find difficult to fathom.

 

This post is aimed at balancing that - it is about optimism.

 

It is my assertion that The United States of America is the brightest hope for humanity. It has been and will continue to be into the forseeable future.

 

The United States of America provides greater opportunity and freedom to individuals than any other country in the world.

 

The United States of America welcomes more new residents and citizens from other countries than any other country in the world.

 

The poorest most down-trodden people in the United States of America would be considered middle class in most other developed nations.

 

The United States sets the standard in assisting nations and people in need, both from official government assistance and private humanitarian efforts. Not just limited to money, but through volunteer efforts as well.

 

The United States is a young country (230 last week), but it has one of the longest standing Constitutions of any existing country.

 

It has been asserted several times that the government is corrupt. The government is not corrupt. It my be staffed by individuals that are corrupt, who for a period of time get away with some sort of corrupt activity. But the rules and mechanisms that oversee the government work. And in the end corruption is rooted out and eliminated. This is an ever lasting battle faced by all forms of government. Corruption is a human failing, and is present in all places with people. It is one of the reasons that a government is needed in the first place.

 

It has been asserted several times that we are powerless as individuals to make any changes. This is not true. A citizen of the United States has greater capabiliy to make changes than in perhaps any other country in the world. Study and understand the issues of the day. Vote. Get other people with the same wants as you to also vote. Win the debate in public forums to support your issues. Win it intelligently, not just with outrage. Get those who are undecided to swing your direction. Motivate the complacent into participating. Raise money for your cause. Start an organization dedicated to your cause and hold media events to bring your voice to the public. Change does not happen quickly or on a whim. If you want to see change you need to dedicate yourself to it for the long term. The road to change is filled with frustration, setbacks, compromise and sometimes there is no meaningful progress in your lifetime. It depends upon your cause and your dedication. But a cause fought for is never lost, and a worthy cause merits the fight. And the ultimate way to make change is to become the elected official, and to let your vote become the vote of the masses instead of just your own.

 

It has been asserted that if you try and make change you will be killed by the government for your effort. To me this type of statement about the United States Government reeks of paranoia, delusions of grandure and self deceiving mis-information all rolled into one convenient package of pre-emptive blame. This is the most baseless excuse to dodge personal responsibility and take the stance of a defacto victim that I have ever seen. Even in the most extreme case where you may actually be at some risk, if your cause (your freedom) is worthy enough it is worth the risk of your own life to try and acheive the goal. Should Martin Luther King have never marched? Should Malcolm X have kept silent about the Nation of Islam? Should Abraham Lincoln have avoided armed conflict with the south? Should Hitler have been appeased? Should the signers of the Declaration of Independance have abstained from signing? History is filled with examples of people standing up for a cause, in the face of real and grave danger. Is your cause worthy, or are you just blowing smoke?

 

It has been asserted that money is the root of all evil. Money is not the root of all evil. Money is a form of power in that it is a medium of exchange and represents monitary potential energy. Money can buy you goods and services. Money can buy you convenience. Money can buy you notariety. Money also cures disease. Money feeds the hungy. Money educates the young. Money entertains the masses. Money is only the medium of exchange. Some people use it to exchange for power. Others use it to enlighten. Without a medium of exchange you have a far more unbalanced and inherently corrupt environment than you do with money. And like anything in the world, some people are better with money than others, and as a result some will always have more than others. This is not unfair any more than a black hole having greater gravity than a grain of sand is unfair. It is that it is. If anything, having money levels the playing field since money allows ideas to have value that would otherwise not be possible.

 

It has been asserted that the United States government cares more for money than for its citizens - and even that it slaughters it own citizens for money and oil. This is a lie, but one that can be agrued very well from the other side. If hiring more police will reduce murders, then we should have enough police to stop all murder. But we don't, we hire as many as we think we weight the cost of police with the murder rate and reach a compromise. If building safer cars and developing automation and safety into the highway system would eliminate road fatalities, then we should spend what it takes to make transportation perfectly safe. But we don't, we weight the cost of measures against human deaths and reach a compromise. In those ways the government does put a price on human life, and decide that a certain amount of life will be lost to save money. But that doesn't mean that the government doesn't value human life. It means that other freedoms come into play in the equation. That there are declining returns for investment that make additional gains so expensive as to be detrimental. Or the total cost of measures exceed what could be afforded and maintained. To say that the government would conspire level the Twin Towers and the Pentagon for some oil is the most ludicrous thing I may have ever heard. And repeating it over and over does not make it any more plausible or any less false.

 

For those of you who do not appreciate the gifts of freedom protected for you by the US government that you enjoy every day, please take the time to once in a while reflect on the positive. Move to any of the communist regimes that you blame the US for opposing and try to voice an alternative opinion. Or go to any of the free nations of the earth who enjoys the umbrella of safety from invasion held high by the United States, and enjoy the 50% tax rates that pay for "free" medical treatment and the other benefits of not having to maintain a viable military to fend off aggressors. If the US were isolationist or were unwilling to use her military, the world would be far more ripe with aggression between nations, bacause she is the first country in history to respect the sanctity of all other nations and defend them from invasion. Yes, we are in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they will remain Iraq and Afghanistan, and they are and will be self directed governments. Those with aims of conquoring their neighbors don't because of certainty of a US reaction. And those with aggressive neighbors live in safety under the umbrella of US peace. It is a burden that we should not have to carry alone and we do receive help from many nations willing to take what is currently an unpopular line (my personal thanks). And for those who are blaming the US for its foreign policy, who will you blame when we stop and only the UN and unenforcable sanctions stand between the tyranical and the peaceful of the world?

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

Bill

[IDMclean]

BD, your correct, I made the mistake of drawing the line to money, it is greed thereof which is the root of evil.

 

However, I remain highly skeptical of your praise of the USA. Like humans it is flawed, undeniably, in my opinion. That it is "good" is fine and all, but it can be better, and to simply say it's to good to be opposed in it's dealings, well that is naive and fraught with the danger of stagnation. (something which is coming this way real quick, geologically that is.)

 

I am glad to hear an optimistic outlook, and glad to hear a honest analysis of personal responsibility.

 

However it remains that, one Our Military, which we are oh so proud of costs us more than every other military in the world combined. (that may be something of an exaggeration, it may only be the topten behind USA.) Taxes are a citizens duty. You want goverment, you pay taxes. I don't disagree with maintaining a military. I simply do not agree with spending a majortive fraction of our budget to maintain the Industrial-Military complex.

 

I don't agree with Communistic nations, as I have stated before I am a socialist, not a communist, and most definately not a fan of the so called People's goverments which have arose under the guise of Communism.

 

We produce enough food, to feed every man, woman, and child on the face of the earth. We can produce enough fiber, to cloth every man, woman and child on the face of the earth. We could train enough doctors to make medical treatment quite a bit cheaper than it is, though we artificially keep those numbers down so that other doctors can make insane ammounts of money. We (world-wide we) produce enough raw materials and labor to house every person on the planet. Defacto. What I am saying is that we as the USA and we as in the World, can if we allocated our resources correctly, could meet the basic needs of everyperson on the planet.

 

We (USA we) choose not to. Why? Because it would mean more expensive tennis shoes. Why? Because if everyperson on the face of the planet had their basic needs met, they would then go on to attempt to meet their higher needs on the maslow triangle. This would mean higher wages, higher standard of living. Greed dictates selfishness, in the egotistical way.

 

As for the whole other goverments thing? Have you ever read the CIA de-classified info, regarding our overthrowing of numerous Democracies, in favor of feudal overlords and fascist regimes? Assassinations of key political figures who threatened to give this or that third nation a chance at becoming something greater? I don't doubt the rutheless cunning of the american people (not those decent down to earth, poor folks, though some of them are not to flavor), and the will of the predator to snuff out the life of another predator that might threaten them.

 

 

I am content in the knowledge that we (USA we) will change. That it most likely will be a painful process. That hopefully, we will come out a much stronger, and much more sensible nation in the end.

 

I critize the reality, not the Ideal.

[paigetheoracle]

How we react to something decides whether we have hope for its future or none. Orb seems to have none and so sees the US Government as disgusting. BigDog sees hope and so continues to peck at it. All I can say is, it is your decision to stay or go, everytime as a free individual. Death is opting out of life - whether that is physical, mental or spiritual suicide (giving up all effort). Depression is giving up - elation is battling on (fighting to get in or relaxing out of something - think of footwear and how appealing it is to take off your boots after a ten mile hike in the height of summer and how nice the thought was orginally to get out into the country). Everything is nuetral until you decide to instill in it you feelings of worthlessness or pride (Money is just bits of metal and printed paper after all).

 

This system like any other would collapse without support. This is what Gandhi taught through non-violent resistance and the unions picked up on from him I believe. Governments 'threaten' their populace with death for this reason and make examples of ringleaders or crowds only as a last resort ( What country can run on a dead populace or one that has run away in fear? A frightened one is different but a stick doesn't work without a carrot at the other end). Every great civilization of the past collapsed, not because of external enemies but internal apathy. A society without goals becomes an empty and vain thing that lacks substance and is only interested in appearance. This is what we have in the West today and why India and China are once again going head to head but not militarily this time. The lesson of the Phoenix is that you have to fall, so that you can rise from your own ashes again. This is the state we're in at present I believe: Everything be it an individual or collective being like society, has a birth, middle age and death. To ignore this is to want to be immortal but refuse to see the fact that you're not.

[TheFaithfulStone]

BD, your correct, I made the mistake of drawing the line to money, it is greed thereof which is the root of evil.

 

The root of all evil is desire. Desire for a woman you can't have, desire for money, desire for fame, fortune, power.

 

Of course, the irony of course, is that desire is also the root of all good. Desire to make life better, desire for fulfillment, for love, etc.

 

Funny how the truths in life always seem to be paradoxes.

 

Like this:

 

America is the greatest country on Earth, but also it's greatest disappointment.

 

Why? Because it's got the most promise, and it doesn't always live up to it.

 

Merely being the best don't excuse you from attempting to be better.

 

When I criticize the USA, it isn't because I hate it, it's because I love it, and I want it to be beyond reproach.

 

TFS

[Queso]

You like having something to complain about. You have repeatedly shown everyone that you're not interested in taking any action.

 

psh-

 

 

I'm just stating my opinions.

 

and i'm NOT asking again "what can I do?" 'cause I didn't get any effective responses from anybody or my self.

 

So, I lie here confused, amazed, and menaced.

Smiling though, had a good day yesterday.

 

You like having something to poke with your shaft.

[Queso]

Orbcycli, find some friends who'd like to have an adventure and go up to the boundary waters of Minnesota for a couple of weeks. Get tents, canoes, cooking equipment and food and get away from all of this for a while. Find out what life without luxury is like. Get in touch with your ancestors and see what they had to do to survive. That is the best thing you could do this summer. I absolutely guarantee you'll come back with a different perspective on things. Of course, it is a terrifying experience at first...

When you're in the 'wilderness' simple things like taking a crap become a chore. You'll appreciate what you have when you get back. If you need equipment, I'm sure there are folks who'd lend it to you.

 

thank you very much for the idea.

 

Before I moved accross the country last week I was preparing for leaving my apartment on foot, with a backpack full of everything I need,

and just walking into the forests of california.

 

I have never learned anything about how to survive, except in books,

and barely any experience in the field.

Except for running around naked, a few craps here and there, making fires, shelters, trying to catch fish,

Basic things.

 

I sincerely intend to futher my knowledge on the tactics of survival in the wilderness,

just for kicks,

for that perspective I've been teased with

since Mt. Haleakala when I was too young to fathom the majority of the environment.

[Queso]

I don't know what else to say.

 

This is such a strange place,

such an abstract time.

 

I can't even be myself without being arrested!

 

So I sit, I breathe, I read, I love---------------