Does Capitalism have any business in a New World Order?

[Biochemist]

The central question in this thread has yet to be addressed. With the collapse of communism we now have four powerful societies vying for profits on the global market. Whatever chance the 3rd world had of levelling the playing field has now all but vanished.

The third world is actualy advantaged in some markets, certainly labor. Side-stepping the issue of sweat shops for a moment, any country that has inexpensive cost-of-labor has an advantage in competitive manufacturing. Once they take advantage of that asset, they can climb the value chain into knowledge workers like everyone else.

 

India is leading the way on this model, with China not far behind. The problem in third world countires is not capitalism. It is fraud and cronyism in their governments. Capitalism could probably save them.

[MagnetMan]

The third world is actualy advantaged in some markets, certainly labor. Side-stepping the issue of sweat shops for a moment, any country that has inexpensive cost-of-labor has an advantage in competitive manufacturing. Once they take advantage of that asset, they can climb the value chain into knowledge workers like everyone else. India is leading the way on this model, with China not far behind.

 

India and china have the advantage of an ancient scriptural history. Both societies are almost entirely literate and held together by reasonably secure governments. This is not so in Africa, where the vast bulk of the poorest live - at least a generation of education is required there - which will never happen unless we see the situation in a truer light. So, is it ethical to watch a billion people starve? Especially when Africa gave us ten million slaves?

 

The problem in third world countires is not capitalism. It is fraud and cronyism in their governments. Capitalism could probably save them.

That problem is universal - and getting more so here in the good ole USA.

[Racoon]

India and china have the advantage of an ancient scriptural history.

 

That problem is universal - and getting more so here in the good ole USA.

 

That is true.

 

Despite working harder than ever, majority of Americans are not better off financially.

Due too: Inflation of energy and food prices. Expense of raising kids. Stagnate wages, thanks in some part to illegal aliens doing work cheaper,

Cost of health care rising, Cost of College going through the roof too.

Credit Cards, ID theft, and other myriad factors....

 

The top 5% are laughing all the way to the bank, and their banking buddies.

The middle class is shrinking and getting squeezed...

 

There will be no shortage of poor people. :cup:

[Biochemist]

...This is not so in Africa, where the vast bulk of the poorest live - at least a generation of education is required there - which will never happen unless we see the situation in a truer light. So, is it ethical to watch a billion people starve?

THis problem has nothing to do with capitalism. As I said above, capitalism is part of the solution, not part of this problem.

 

And it is disingenuous to compare the extant cronyism in the US with the status in subSaharan Africa. The issues are orders of magnitude different. Individual leaders in Africa can abscond with billions (literally) in foreign aid, and can officiate the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents with impunity.

 

This is not a problem with the economic model. This is a fundamental disrespect for the rule of law.

[TheBigDog]

That is true.

 

Despite working harder than ever, majority of Americans are not better off financially.

Due too: Inflation of energy and food prices. Expense of raising kids. Stagnate wages, thanks in some part to illegal aliens doing work cheaper,

Cost of health care rising, Cost of College going through the roof too.

Credit Cards, ID theft, and other myriad factors....

 

The top 5% are laughing all the way to the bank, and their banking buddies.

The middle class is shrinking and getting squeezed...

 

There will be no shortage of poor people. :cup:

Why such a pessimistic spin 'Coon?

 

• Unemployment is below 5% despite the fact that so many jobs are taken by illegals.
  
• Home ownership is at an all time high
  
• Life expentancy is rising every year with the cures and treatments for wht used to be fatal diseases (this adds a great deal to health care costs)
  
• Fuel is more expensive, but is comparable to the cost of fuel in 1950 in adjusted dollars. This means that we managed to keep the cost of fuel in a defaltionary position for 55 years! Now that it has normalized to the costs of 50 years ago everyone is in a panic.
  
• Despit the rumors the middle class in America is growing every year.
  
• There will always be poor people, because in the competition of life there are always winners and losers. Those who choose not to play the game need to find alternative happiness.

 

Being rich is an effect, not a cause. When you become rich you get to enjoy the fruits of the journey that got you there. And that means you get things that the poor don't get. Just another reason to work or think your way out of being poor. And there is no place like America for that type of opportunity.

 

And I would rather be poor in America than anyplace else in the world. Why do you think people continue to come here from every corner of the world?

 

Bill

[Racoon]

Why such a pessimistic spin 'Coon?

 

Being rich is an effect, not a cause.

 

And I would rather be poor in America than anyplace else in the world. Why do you think people continue to come here from every corner of the world?

 

Bill

 

Sociology classes. :hihi:

 

The richest people are usually of the inherited type. With an exception of say a modern day Bill Gates...

 

And while there are plenty of jobs and low unemployment - those jobs are ones that pay little, with few benefits.

Making it difficult to raise kids despite working 40+ hours a week.

 

I agree with I would rather be poor in America. People come here because a $7 hr. job is better than NO job.

 

Compound the fact of high health care and College costs, with Inflation of energy and food prices, with a devalued currency bogged down in Tremendous National Debt and Trade imbalances... That while the surface may seem rosey >>> often times it is not.

 

People are More in Debt than ever! Do they Own their homes and Cars??

No. The bank does. (unless they have zero mortgage payments)

 

and as soon as you get laid off, outsourced, or sick and miss a payment or three>>> then will you realize who owns the home and/or car.

 

I'm not bashing Capitalism. You should know that. :cup:

There is a reality factor though too...

 

The Middle Class is getting squeezed :star:

[TheBigDog]

The richest people are usually of the inherited type. With an exception of say a modern day Bill Gates...

More than 80% of Millionaires are self made, first generation rich people. See "The Millionaire Next Door" by Richard Stanley.

And while there are plenty of jobs and low unemployment - those jobs are ones that pay little, with few benefits.

Making it difficult to raise kids despite working 40+ hours a week.

 

I agree with I would rather be poor in America. People come here because a $7 hr. job is better than NO job.

The average hourly wage is $16.34/hour accourding to this Jan USA Today article. The wage rate slowed after 9/11, but has picked back up. People cannot expect much of a lifestyle if they never seek more than entry level jobs. Entry level jobs by definition pay less. But they cannot be used as the basis for saying "these are the only jobs available". There are good paying jobs in all fields all over the place. But not everyone gets the good job. It is a competition.

 

And everyone has problems. All of life is a risk. Preparation, planning and persistance are missing from the plans and personalities of most people who feel defeated and victimized economically.

 

Bill

[MagnetMan]

Reality in America lies somewhere between Racoon and Big Dog. One thing is for sure, all the hope for the future lies in America. Every culture on the planet has family living here. This is where the God-like heros of modern mythology have taken birth. This is where Superman and Batman and Spiderman and Captain America live. And with that great power comes great responsibility. This is the Promised Land for all the peoples of the world and they all look to us and our heros for world leadership.

 

But we have put all our faith in the dollar - in paper money - in a promisary note which too many are welshing on - both here and abroad. It is an artficial god. It puts up artificial barriers to world development. There are enough raw materia;ls, unemployed labor and sheer genius technology - able to harness the oceans and the atmpsohgere, pump ice from the poles, build vast new cities, farm indoors and farm the oceans and a host of other large-scale planet mangement projects - yet we have this paper barrier placed in front of all of us - saying no-can-do - not enough short-term profits. We cannot think outside the bun. The dolllar has got us all hogtied and buffaloed - it is all we talk and think about day in and day out. It is our social value system. It is our comfort zone. Our security blanket. Even with the twin towers of Gomorrah tumbling down in front of our eyes, not even the wisest among us can see the how artificially limiting we have made ourselves.

 

We should change to quote on the dollar bill. It is not in God we trust. It is in cash we trust.

[Racoon]

More than 80% of Millionaires are self made, first generation rich people. See "The Millionaire Next Door" by Richard Stanley.

 

The average hourly wage is $16.34/hour accourding to this Jan USA Today article. The wage rate slowed after 9/11, but has picked back up. People cannot expect much of a lifestyle if they never seek more than entry level jobs. Entry level jobs by definition pay less. But they cannot be used as the basis for saying "these are the only jobs available". There are good paying jobs in all fields all over the place. But not everyone gets the good job. It is a competition.

 

And everyone has problems. All of life is a risk. Preparation, planning and persistance are missing from the plans and personalities of most people who feel defeated and victimized economically.

 

Bill

 

Then there is NO problem!

Everything is fine.

There are simply too many people who do not do the right thing in terms of managing money and/or assets.

Or too few people seeking greater challenges, positions, or higher education.

 

What about more people "owning" their own home?

I could of sworn most people pay a mortgage. :naughty:(the Bank really owning it while you pay to stay and build equity in the place)

 

and with Inheritence, I was referring to the Bourgeoirs (spelling) and/or WASPs. The really rich people! the 1- 3% who own about everything.

Old Money you would call it.

 

Its easier to make or lose a "million" with the current value of a dollar then ever. (not that its easy - but easier)

Many millionaires are "paper" millionaires.

they can be a stock crash away from being poor again.

 

I agree with the hope of Capitalism BD...

But please don't paint a Norman Rockwell portrait of it. :hihi:

 

Theres a bit of luck that goes into this equation too.

Or incredible Athletic ability, or Inventive prowess.

 

If being rich was a matter of working hard, and doing the best you can, then Why are there so many poor people in this country??

Lots of poor people work plenty damned hard and do everything in their power to be better and raise a family.

 

I prefer Capitalism to Socialism for Sure!! :hihi:

 

I'll look for some other stats...But most Jobs being created are entry-level or dead end jobs.

[Boerseun]

One thing is for sure, all the hope for the future lies in America.

...you're not serious, are you?

This is where the God-like heros of modern mythology have taken birth. This is where Superman and Batman and Spiderman and Captain America live.

...you're not serious, are you?

This is the Promised Land for all the peoples of the world and they all look to us and our heros for world leadership.

...you're not serious, are you?

[MagnetMan]

Reality in America lies somewhere between Racoon and Big Dog. One thing is for sure, all the hope for the future lies in America. Every culture on the planet has family living here.

...you're not serious, are you?

Completely. Fifteen generations of international cultural mixing has taken place here. The same mix has happened to some extent in other European colonies, but not remotely in such concentrated focus as the USA. In this respect it is the most advanced and most influencial society on the planet. Pockets of that same international consciousness exist in Canada, Australasia and Central and South America - but do not have the same clout.

 

America is where the God-like heros of modern mythology have taken birth. This is where Superman and Batman and Spiderman and Captain America live. And with that great power comes great responsibility

...you're not serious, are you?

Sure. They embody all the strengths and virtues of Uncle Sam. They have joined Heracules and Apollo and Atlas and will be remembered for ten thousand years into the future.

 

This is the Promised Land for all the peoples of the world and they all look to us and our heros for world leadership.

...you're not serious, are you?

Once again, completely. If you do the math since the Diaspora and add up twenty seven centuries of Jewish migrations around the world and the inevitable mixing of their blood - It would be safe to say that every entreprenuer in America has a drop of Jewish blood in their veins. Here is the lost tribe, living as promised, in the land of milk and honey.

 

But we have put all our faith in the dollar - in paper money - in a promisary note which too many are welshing on - both here and abroad. It is an artficial god. It puts up artificial barriers to world development. There are enough raw materia;ls, unemployed labor and sheer genius technology - able to harness the oceans and the atmpsohgere, pump ice from the poles, build vast new cities, farm indoors and farm the oceans and a host of other large-scale planet mangement projects - yet we have this paper barrier placed in front of all of us - saying no-can-do - not enough short-term profits. We cannot think outside the bun. The dolllar has got us all hogtied and buffaloed - it is all we talk and think about day in and day out. It is our social value system. It is our comfort zone. Our security blanket. Even with the twin towers of Gomorrah tumbling down in front of our eyes, not even the wisest among us can see the how artificially limiting we have made ourselves.

 

We should change to quote on the dollar bill. It is not in God we trust. It is in cash we trust.

[Boerseun]

MagnetMan, I have terrible news for you:

 

All the 'hope for the future' does certainly not lie with the US. However bad that may seem to an American. There are a few reasons for this.

 

The US was a youthful, vigourous country with a very short history (relatively speaking), without landed families (initially) who perpetuated a repressive system in their own interests, like Europe did at the same time.

The US formed a system of government that was inclusive of the people, and quite a novelty in the day. The US was founded with never-ending open land to the West, an irresistable magnet for those very same repressed peoples from Europe who could now own their own land. This kindled the spirit of inventiveness that made the US the single greatest patent holder on Earth.

 

That's all over, now.

 

The US is at the stage now where its consolidating its resources as the empire shrinks. Business is outsourcing labour to offshore companies, because its cheaper. Unemployment grows. The USA is resorting all the more to military solutions for diplomatic problems. The government is bloated. It's a two-party state, with very few people bothering to vote any more. It's all about the money. The nation is obese, and turning dumber by the minute as each new generation switches flips the channel to MTV. Comparitive tests on math skills between US students and European and Asian students shows that American maths skills are going down the tubes, and have been doing so since the 70's. And so on.

 

For better or for worse, the future of the world lies evenly split between India and China. At the rate China is growing, it will supercede the US as the world's major economic player within a few decades. They are relaxing their economy, and are introducing property rights as we speak. Property rights sounds trivial to us Westerners, but it's a crucial aspect of the Chinese economy denied the people by their Communist government. That is changing now. The Chinese are planning on building an 80,000km dual-carriageway highway system in the next 15 years. That's about 5300km per year. Or about 15kms per day. There are civil engineering programs afoot on a scale the US last saw in the Boulder dam. The Chinese are actively persuing a manned space program, and have declared their intentions of going to the moon. Their economy is growing hand-over-hand.

Pretty soon, the US will start to actively market itself as a diplomatic alternative to China, but with the US economy in reverse gear, what will it offer these countries? Export deals? Import deals? Will a new 'space race' be on the cards? A new 'Cold War'?

 

I think the danger might not lie in China bypassing the US as the prime economic force in the world, the danger will lie in how the US will handle the transition from first to second, and then to third (as India slips by) place. Being demoted whilst sitting on the biggest nuclear stockpile in the world might be tempting to some. Will the US be mature about the whole thing and just accept it as the natural course of events?

 

Sorry, MagnetMan - empires come and go. A hundred years ago, the average Brit thought that the world will fall to pieces if England is removed from the equation. In about 200A.D., the average citizen of Rome thought that the future of the world is tied up with the fortunes of the Roman Empire. Your belief in the 'States is admirable from a patriotic point of view, but history proves you flat-out wrong. You can make the case for the US being a 'melting-pot' of cultures and races, but it was hardly the first. The Roman Empire was a concatenation of all cultures known at the time, so much so that the Roman empire had a black emperor at one stage. This was around 100-150A.D, if memory serves. I'll get you a link. The US is still to elect a black president. So there goes that argument.

[MagnetMan]

MagnetMan, I have terrible news for you:

 

All the 'hope for the future' does certainly not lie with the US. However bad that may seem to an American. There are a few reasons for this.

 

The US was a youthful, vigourous country with a very short history (relatively speaking), without landed families (initially) who perpetuated a repressive system in their own interests, like Europe did at the same time.

The US formed a system of government that was inclusive of the people, and quite a novelty in the day. The US was founded with never-ending open land to the West, an irresistable magnet for those very same repressed peoples from Europe who could now own their own land. This kindled the spirit of inventiveness that made the US the single greatest patent holder on Earth.

That's all over, now.

 

This all true. I can add that by cutting itself off from it ancient cultrural heritage with England it was left without noble influence and remains limited to a second-class (merchant) mentality to this day.

 

The US is at the stage now where its consolidating its resources as the empire shrinks. Business is outsourcing labour to offshore companies, because its cheaper. Unemployment grows. The USA is resorting all the more to military solutions for diplomatic problems. The government is bloated. It's a two-party state, with very few people bothering to vote any more. It's all about the money. The nation is obese, and turning dumber by the minute as each new generation switches flips the channel to MTV. Comparitive tests on math skills between US students and European and Asian students shows that American maths skills are going down the tubes, and have been doing so since the 70's. And so on.

 

Again, ominously, all true.

 

For better or for worse, the future of the world lies evenly split between India and China. At the rate China is growing, it will supercede the US as the world's major economic player within a few decades. They are relaxing their economy, and are introducing property rights as we speak. Property rights sounds trivial to us Westerners, but it's a crucial aspect of the Chinese economy denied the people by their Communist government. That is changing now. The Chinese are planning on building an 80,000km dual-carriageway highway system in the next 15 years. That's about 5300km per year. Or about 15kms per day. There are civil engineering programs afoot on a scale the US last saw in the Boulder dam. The Chinese are actively persuing a manned space program, and have declared their intentions of going to the moon. Their economy is growing hand-over-hand.

Pretty soon, the US will start to actively market itself as a diplomatic alternative to China, but with the US economy in reverse gear, what will it offer these countries? Export deals? Import deals? Will a new 'space race' be on the cards? A new 'Cold War'?

 

Again quite true. China and India are heading down the same road to an inevitable end of material obesity and social decay that America has just trod. One must realize though that the make up of modern China is a recent creation - a deal made between Chang Kai Shek and the USA during WWII. This is why the political stranglehold on individual dissent is so strong. China is made up of a dozen powerful ethnic groups, all with secret hopes for their own autonomy. So the road ahead is not all roses for them. India has its own internal and foreign challenges that money will not solve.

 

I think the danger might not lie in China bypassing the US as the prime economic force in the world, the danger will lie in how the US will handle the transition from first to second, and then to third (as India slips by) place. Being demoted whilst sitting on the biggest nuclear stockpile in the world might be tempting to some. Will the US be mature about the whole thing and just accept it as the natural course of events?

 

With hawks like Bush and his cronies in control. a limited form of nuclear warfare is a distinct possibility. Mankind is still in his careless, daring, dice-throwing teens.

 

Sorry, MagnetMan - empires come and go. A hundred years ago, the average Brit thought that the world will fall to pieces if England is removed from the equation. In about 200A.D., the average citizen of Rome thought that the future of the world is tied up with the fortunes of the Roman Empire. Your belief in the 'States is admirable from a patriotic point of view, but history proves you flat-out wrong. You can make the case for the US being a 'melting-pot' of cultures and races, but it was hardly the first. The Roman Empire was a concatenation of all cultures known at the time, so much so that the Roman empire had a black emperor at one stage. This was around 100-150A.D, if memory serves. I'll get you a link. The US is still to elect a black president. So there goes that argument.

 

And history will repeat itself if we refuse to learn from it. This is why I posted this thread. I am advocating, together will tens of millions of other New Agers, an entirely new mind-set. I believe that evolutionary forces are at work. The concept of a New Age is not a hippie fad, but a profound intuitive insight. I do not think that the world - both people and environment - can handle the rise of any further super-materialists. The new mass psychology will be attracted to a global stewardship ethic. America is home to the majority of these Nuclear Age thinkers. They will supply leadership. Once the vast and exciting challenges of planet management are put on the table (computer models on the internet) for serious analysis, the new consciousness will be automatically drawn away from out-dated econimc ideologies and towards the new paradigm - an egaliratian global society stewarding the home planet as a single family estate.

 

It might take a nuclear war to bring home that mass realization - but not if people let go of entrenched mind-sets and take a clearer look down the road.

You of course are entirely at liberty to refute all of the above. I however will remain hopeful and keep plugging the new consciousness till I die.

[Boerseun]

I do not think that the world - both people and environment - can handle the rise of any further super-materialists.

China and India won't need to produce 'super-materialists' of any kind in order to bypass the US at all, although I know that wasn't the point you were trying to make. Just by virtue of their population size, their GDP and resource requirements will exceed those of the US if their average per capita income reaches one quarter that of the average American citizen. They don't have to achieve high lifestyles at all in order to bring the world to its knees in terms of resource consumption. I don't think the planet can carry more than one United States, if you get my drift. Pretty soon, we'll have three.

The new mass psychology will be attracted to a global stewardship ethic.

A bit presumptious. The new mass psychology will probably be what it has been for millions of years: Get stuff together to provide for your family, and to hell with the rest. It's called basic survival, and the freemarket system plugs nicely into it. A point might be reached where you might need to say to an individual "Okay, you've got enough stuff now, go away and clear the field for the next guy". But do you think the individual will agree with you? What's the chances of Bill Gates or Warren Buffet quitting the Capitalism Game voluntarily? Seriously, now? And how would you transport this idea to those who are only now getting the first tastes of Capitalism? Human greed is your enemy. Unfortunately, human greed is a genetic trait of the species.

America is home to the majority of these Nuclear Age thinkers. They will supply leadership.

To whom? Leaders are worthless without followers. And the overwhelming mass of your potential support base are normal everyday humans who have to work for a living, and have to sort the daily worries of getting money in order to buy a loaf of bread out of the way before they can in any way worry about the planet, or the 'stewardship' thereof. They have to do this because the economic system demands it of them. The economic system is (Capitalism, Free Market, etc.) is human nature writ large. You can't change that. Karl Marx tried and failed miserably.

Once the vast and exciting challenges of planet management are put on the table (computer models on the internet) for serious analysis, the new consciousness will be automatically drawn away from out-dated econimc ideologies and towards the new paradigm - an egaliratian global society stewarding the home planet as a single family estate.

What exactly do you mean by "Planet Management", or "Global Stewardship"? Don't you think it a bit presumptious and arrogant to think that we have as a species have the right to take up this role? What about bacteria? They've been around for billions of years. Even yeast, a small little anaerobic bug that dies in the presence of oxygen, have tamed humans to take exquisite care of them. The bugs have a cushy life, well protected by what could be called the most intelligent species on the planet by one standard, and the dumbest by another standard, and they give us bread and beer in return. Yeast's ability to provide intoxicating beverages for hairless bipeds is an amazing survival strategy, and dare I say it, a very successful one at that. So who's in charge of the planet here?

It might take a nuclear war to bring home that mass realization - but not if people let go of entrenched mind-sets and take a clearer look down the road.

The problem with this statement is that you assume your road to be the right one, and you assume that we should "take charge" of the planet based on your idea. I believe in the total opposite, for instance, so, from an objective third party, who's right? These entrenched mind-sets have made the human species what it is today. We should accept the realities of the human psyche, make-up and condition, and try to come up with solutions that harmonizes with what and who we are. We can't change the elemental make-up of the human species, and any proposed solution that goes against the grain of what we are will be a superficial one with a pretty short shelf-life, much like Communism.

You of course are entirely at liberty to refute all of the above. I however will remain hopeful and keep plugging the new consciousness till I die.

Mighty kind of you, and good luck, by the way. Just expect a bumpy road if you try and change funamental human traits.

[hallenrm]

......... China and India are heading down the same road to an inevitable end of material obesity and social decay that America has just trod. .

 

Well, there are subtle cultural differences between USA and China/India. These two nations have had a history very unlike USA. They enjoy spiritual culture much more than What USA ever did. So the chances, that they will trace the same path that USA took are rather slim!!

......... The concept of a New Age is not a hippie fad, but a profound intuitive insight. I do not think that the world - both people and environment - can handle the rise of any further super-materialists. The new mass psychology will be attracted to a global stewardship ethic. America is home to the majority of these Nuclear Age thinkers. They will supply leadership. Once the vast and exciting challenges of planet management are put on the table (computer models on the internet) for serious analysis, the new consciousness will be automatically drawn away from out-dated econimc ideologies and towards the new paradigm - an egaliratian global society stewarding the home planet as a single family estate.

.

 

Wishful thinking, that's all I have to say:)

[MagnetMan]

A bit presumptious. The new mass psychology will probably be what it has been for millions of years: Get stuff together to provide for your family, and to hell with the rest. It's called basic survival, and the freemarket system plugs nicely into it.

 

Wishful thinking, that's all I have to say:)

 

Stone Age family group psychology, provided for the family via metioculous sharing of the fruits of the hunt - and treated Nature's bounty with superstitious reverence.

Bronze Age clanish group psycholgy provided for the clan via cooperative agricultural effort and was profoundly reverential of anscestral spirits and feared their displeasure.

Iron Age national group psychology privided for the nation via conscientious industrial crafsmanship and maintained a profound belief in sciptural dogma and was fearful of God's displeasure.

Steel Age international group psychology competed globally for survival, denigrated all previous spiritual tenets, dismissed spiritual reverence and placed all its faith in scientific determinism.

 

So the mass psychology has not been the same for million of years. There have been four massive paradigm shifts in the evolution of our consciousness over the pass 100,000 generations.

Each of them were initiated via exponential population growths impacting adversely on regional enviroments, forcing a sequential progression of new ages of occupational and social contracts.

 

We face a 5th such paradigm shift right now as environmental over-load once again propels us into a Nuclear Age globalsociety, which, in order to survive will be forced to enter into an egalitarian occupational contract and steward the home planet as a single family estate. This mass shift cannot be cannot be accomplished without returning to a reverential attitude that appreciates the commonalty of our ancestral efforts. This must be followed by an evocation of our intuitive insight that allows us to see ourselves beyond shallow ethnic bigotries and acknowledge ourselves as a single famly of man who share a common origin and now faces a common destination.

 

These are not my private ideas of mass change. They are logical deductions taken from the historical progression of evoultionary events. If my deductions are faulty, please show me where.

[TheBigDog]

They are wrong because people will not relinquish their individualism and humanity for the sake of your vision of the future. The utopia you describe requires the abolishment of all religious practices, the abolishment of nationalism, the abolishment of regionalism. But most importantly, the abolishment of individualism. An individual has the inherent right to be wrong if they so choose. So even if you become the grand dictator of earth and messiah with your wizard's wisdom of the proper order for all things in the world, how would you possible get the detractors on-board with your grand plan? Your plan is impossible because it leaves no room for anything else but your plan, and you completely ignore the basic human needs in your analysis of societal evolution.

 

I have resisted getting dragged into another conversation with you. Your only aim is to get the whole world to see things exactly as you want them to be. Time and time again in every thread you thank people for their input, but never acknowledge that your grand scheme has flaws - despite those flaws being pointed out to you time and time again.

 

So I have a question. Is your purpose here to begin the takeover of the world? Or is your purpose here to actually engage in debate and learn from those around you - even as those around you have the opportunity to learn from you? I feel like I am on the Coriolis thread all over again.

 

Bill