TheFaithfulStone Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Faith, all right, if you insist, I'm an anti-democratic suppressor of minorities and it was me that gassed the Kurds in Iraq!!!!!!! I don't think I accused you of anything quite that serious. :hihi: I think I accused you of claiming that people with different opinions were to be treated differently under certain laws. TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 I don't believe the issue is really the cartoons.I quite agree that it's far more than the cartoons but it goes back to before 9/11. If Someone in the Muslim world was publishing garbage about Jesus, wouldn't a few feathers gert ruffled?True, but not many Muslims would insult Jesus. Islam doesn't consider him God The Son but it considers him the prophet before Mohamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 I think this whole thing is utterly ridiculous. Caricatures, parodies, and satire, are things that are protected under freedom of speech and press in most liberal democracies. The reactions to these drawings are way out of proportion. This is simply nothing to begin riots over, or reason to threaten the western world with more terrorist actions. In the free world, we're allowed to make such drawings depicting Muhammed, Allah, Jesus, God, Zeus, Apollo, Venus and IPU in favourable, unfavourable or controversial ways. This is something that those backwards fundamentalists simply need to learn to live with. I sincerely hope that we're in the beginning of the end of fundamentalism (any religion!) because it's absolutely not compatible with modern liberal democracies. Our societies allow fundamentalist believers, but not fundamentalist rule, and sometimes not the practices either. Religion has caused enough problems and tortured humankind enough, so let us if not drop it so at least loosen it up. No more oppression of women, no more antiscientific movements to destroy science education, no more crusades, no more jihads, no more bombing of abortion clinics, no more flying aeroplanes into scysrapers. Enough, already. What happens when an artist, author or comedian say or do something that is viewed as controversial? There will be letters to the editor, there will be public debate. In really bad examples, some lawyer will be consulted. Buildings are not set on fire, terrorism is not considered an option, and murder threats are few, if they happen at all. I suspect that some fundamentalists just try to seize the opportunity to add fire to the conflict. They want an excuse to scream and shout and riot and kill people. I hope the more liberal and moderate muslims will win out in the end. It's time to do away with fundamentalism. The Dark Ages are over, I guess some people just didn't get the memo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithfulStone Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1213392 An interesting story about why the Arab world just can't seem to get ahead, despite sitting on the world's energy supply. TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Okay, we're past the "small mobs" stage. The governments of Iran and Syria are starting to play their big cards. Huge demonstrations in Lebanon. Interesting how they now march against the cartoons buy have posters against Israel and the USA. Massive cartoon protest in Beirut BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- About half a million Muslims turned a Beirut religious ceremony into a peaceful protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, as Iran and Syria rejected U.S. accusations they were inciting anger over the caricatures. Unlike Sunday, when protesters torched the building housing the Danish Consulate, there were no signs of violence in Thursday's march in the Lebanese capital, Reuters reported. "At your service, oh Mohammed, at your service, oh Prophet of God," the crowds chanted with fists raised. "Death to America, Death to Israel." http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/09/cartoon.protests/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 "At your service, oh Mohammed, at your service, oh Prophet of God""Death to America, Death to Israel" Words of inspiration and hope...Words of peace and forgiveness... Please tell me again how I am wrong so I can make myself more worthy of your love, you who speak in the name of the Prophet! I give myself over to your counciled justice, oh speakers for the "Religion of Peace" :hihi: Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Is there anything more ridiculous than this??? Tormod makes a great point; How quickly they shift that Hate towards the US and Israel. Hopefully this will blow over soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithfulStone Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 "At your service, oh Mohammed, at your service, oh Prophet of God," the crowds chanted with fists raised. "Death to America, Death to Israel." Wait, wait - that's NOT a sign of violence? Sounds pretty violent to me. TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 How dare you call me a murderous baffoon! I will kill you where you stand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 How quickly they [angry Muslims] shift that Hate towards the US and Israel. Hopefully this will blow over soon...Me too, but while I expect this cartoon fiasco to be forgotten within a year, I don’t think any hate from the Islamic world has been shifted off of Israel since around 1881, when the first few Jewish settlers bought some farms from Ottoman Turks and Arab landowners in what’s now the state of Israel, though it took ‘til about 1950 for the hate to reach modern levels. The US appears to be hated mostly by association, though, until some years later, not nearly as much as the UK. If the “official” word from al-Qaeda is any indication, the Arab world’s hatred of America hit the hights it’s presently at in 1976, when Israel invaded Lebanon in response to cross-border attacks by Palestinians who had been fleeing from Israel to Lebanon for the past 20 or so years. The US unarguably helped Israel in this and previous campaign. Even Lebanese immigrant naturalized US citizens - several of whom I’ve had the pleasure to know – while being intensely patriotic about their new homeland, had bitter feelings about this, and knew friends and neighbors who died from direct Israeli and US military actions. Generations of the best diplomats and politicians from all the nations involved have struggled to end this awful state of affairs, so the opinion of an armchair sociologists like me is likely worth about the disk space its posted on, but I have an opinion, nonetheless, to wit:Muslims, primarily Arab and Persian Muslims, will hate the US and countries with which she is friendly as long as they hate Israel;Muslims will hate Israel as long as that state denies citizenship and participation in its political process to people living within its borders and the recently drawn borders of Palestine;Separating the states of Israel and Palestine won’t solve this problem, as both states will continue to make claim to one another’s land for generations to come;The only solution is for Israel and Palestine to form a single nation in which religion is separate from government and law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Alternatively, move Israel to Texas, there's plenty of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well said CraigD! If I'm not mistaken, didn't Egypt, Syria, and a couple of other countries Attack Israel in 1967? (forget real date, The 6 day War ) Only to get their ASSES' handed to them! and subsequently they lost the Gaza strip and Golan heights? Then they're Still pissed? :angel: ( thats like me throwing the first punch in a fight with all my friends there to help, and when everyone gets beat up, I cry Unfair! ) It started in 1948, from the repercussions of WWII, and the subsequent sympathy for the slaughter of Jews. When Allied countries drew the line in the sand, Literally, with regards to the bounderies of Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq. ( See those straight lines on the map? ) Lets not forget.. Israel bombed Nuclear facilities in Iraq way back in the 80's!(82' I think) Had it not been for that, Iraq would be a nuclear threat now!(and why US is contemplating same for Iran) Why does the Arab hatred of Jews run so deep??? (CraigD did allude to this...) And why are these Muslims suddenly directing their anger towards countries that played no part in this fiasco? If indeed that is what they are really so pissed about.Agree with Bush Administration for once. Syria and Iran are using this to stoke the fire against US and Israel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithfulStone Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 If I'm not mistaken, didn't Egypt, Syria, and a couple of other countries Attack Israel in 1967? (forget real date, The 6 day War ) Only to get their ASSES' handed to them! and subsequently they lost the Gaza strip and Golan heights? Then they're Still pissed? :hihi: ( thats like me throwing the first punch in a fight with all my friends there to help, and when everyone gets beat up, I cry Unfair! ) Pretty much it exactly. Given this, and a host of other evidence (remember, this is a people who actually made the walls of a city fall down with trumpets) I think it's safe to say - you do not screw around with God's Chosen People. :) TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 What is this thread meant to be about? "You do not screw around with God's Chosen People" but screwing around with muslims, even suicidal terrorists, is everyman's birthright?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 What is this thread meant to be about? "You do not screw around with God's Chosen People" but screwing around with muslims, even suicidal terrorists, is everyman's birthright?? This thread is meant to be about the freedom of speech in a religious setting, mostly spurred by the violent reactions to the cartoons. That it is opening up to other perspectives and historical allusions is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Well, the freedom of speech exists, the cartoons have been published, so what's the point of the thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 For example that I think that the freedom of speech has limits...as stated before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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