Tormod Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 your right about somepeople not agreeing with science about the age of the earth, but i'm not one of them. i beleave scince now puts the earth at about 3.8 billon years The currently accepted age is 4.6 billion years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagred Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I disagree. god hadn't given anyone any free will of choice. If there ever was such a thing as god then the so called "choice" was worship me or i'll make sure your afterlife is hell, so to speak, what sort of choice is that. Then we get the caveats from Catholicism that says its ok to repent everything on your deathbed and everything will be fine, so some of us hedge our bets and no matter how cruel or nasty we were, we say a few quick hail maries, and bobs your uncle, in through the pearly gates. The accepted age of Earth is approx 4.5-4.6 billion yrs. There is no heaven or hell, and there is no devil. if there was a god, he is one and the very same person. in fact the bible has more stories of the nasty stuff god did to his supposed children than the devil. No, god and the devil are the same thing, there is no difference. if there is a god it is cruel, ruthless, vengeful, and down right nasty. God does not need angels, or annointed ones, he is omnipotent, what does good need with anything apart from himself. The whole misprinted, misrepresented, hidden remade, rehashed, selected, multi-authored books of the bible are nothing more than a collection of stories made to control masses of illiterate people of the time. The mention of a satan figure only tries to support conformance to a particular idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2bkmj Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 okay, okay 3.8 billon years give or take a billon years, lol.no god and satan are not one in the same being. the god you referd to yes was a vengful one, but that was the old testament, the old covenant, then he did the nicest thing he could have ever done for us, which was give is son to save our souls. which is proficied in the old testament would be done. as far as freewill why do think there is so much evil in the world, because man has the freewill to do it. god is all powerfull, all knowing, and everywhere, satan on the other hand is not all powerfull, all knowing, nor everywhere, satan is powerfull dont get me wrong, but not all powerfull. satan can only make someone do something if they are posesed by one of his demons, other than that, he can only manipulate, or tempt us, or trap us into doing something against god, it's we that have to be strong to not fall for his tricks. you also, have to remember that satan cant be everywhere, but he has leigons of angels, demons, and people to do his bidding and dirty work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I can't believe I'm reading this stuff at a science forum. This is supposed to be a theology forum, not a preaching soap box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2bkmj Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 I can't believe I'm reading this stuff at a science forum. This is supposed to be a theology forum, not a preaching soap box.well this thread is about satan, which is a biblical being, i actually like the science, but i like to apply it to the bible as well. the bible may not say the science verson of things but you have to thinkabout the fact that god was speaking to man thousands of years ago, before they knew about all the science. so he but it in words they could understand. the bible always refers to man as children, so you put things in words a child will understand, just like we do with our children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 you have to thinkabout the fact that god was speaking to man thousands of years ago, before they knew about all the science. I repeat my point above. This has nothing to do with science. It's preaching a religious point of view and touting it as fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 The whole misprinted, misrepresented, hidden remade, rehashed, selected, multi-authored books of the bible are nothing more than a collection of stories made to control masses of illiterate people of the time. Sounds like they could have done well by taking a marketing class. Trying to address illiterate people using a book is not usually gonna be your best option... Gotta know your audience, regardless of the subject matter.:lol: :) Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2bkmj Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 ok tormod no religon. there is no satan. it just human nature to put yourself first no matter who it hurts. isnt what i believe, but in the absent of religion its the only logical answer i can think of. i would ask that you go to http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm to see what i actually believe, it includes the science of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Ever notice how scientists (no, not all) tend to put things in terms of: Let's explore the various options and see which seems best. If a better one comes along, let's make sure it's well tested. Yet so many (no, not all) religious folks tend to focus in terms of: You're either with me or your against me. I'm right and you're an immoral demon who has no other desire than to hurt others. Hmmmff... WWJD? Well, not that, but who cares anyway? He who wherever he goes is attached to no person and to no place by ties of flesh; who accepts good and evil alike, neither welcoming the one nor shrinking from the other — take it that such a one has attained Perfection. "Bhagavad-Gita" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 The accepted age of Earth is approx 4.5-4.6 billion yrs.Oh... well I feel better. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Ever notice how scientists (no, not all) tend to put things in terms of: Let's explore the various options and see which seems best. If a better one comes along, let's make sure it's well tested. Yet so many (no, not all) religious folks tend to focus in terms of: You're either with me or your against me. I'm right and you're an immoral demon who has no other desire than to hurt others. Hmmmff... WWJD? Well, not that, but who cares anyway?Good point. That's the way religion was in Jesus' day, too.“Now all the publicans and sinners were drawing near unto him to hear him. And both the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.” — Luke 15:1-2 asv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 How do you decide which religion to believe? Doesn't believing one imply believing all? Including satanism.Search for truth. Look everywhere. Don't accept prepackaged interpretations of anything. Glean what truth you can find from everything. All contains truth, but nothing embodies it. I have found the most truth in the bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I believe that God exists and has infinite power/wisdom etc. So i was just thinking, how does God(having infinite power) allow Satan to exist?:( I was thinking that maybe Satan is a metaphor explaining how humans can turn evil. And also hell, does that exist?Be aware that theological questions in this forum nearly always end up as the same old debate between atheists and otherwise. No serious postulation regarding the meaning or consistency of scripture can take place amongst the constant attempts to discredit it. I think some people should be better able to differentiate between scriptural discussion and preaching. And some Christians would do good to realize they are explaining scripture to a brick wall. By the way, excellent questions. Why would God create Satan or hell? My opinion is tied to the concept of free will and the nature of various created beings. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Satan (resistor) I heard it once compared to marriage. There's a difference between marrying a woman who wants to spend her life with you, and marrying a woman who has to spend her life with you. The same would go for the followers of God. If we choose him, he is pleased. But we can't choose him if he doesn't first allow us the freedom to reject him. Then the question begs, 'why would God create those whom he knows will reject him?'“And the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? whence then hath it tares? And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares, ye root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.” — Jesus' spoken parable of the wheat and tares Matthew 13:27-30 asvEven the unsaved will bear children, who may or may not be humble, repentant, believers. Taking out a whole lineage before they have a chance to choose the heart of Jesus over the heart of Adam hardly seems fair. With the angels, it's a different story because they don't procreate. (Mark 12:25) I would speculate that God is allowing all angels to be tempted, just like we are, in order to prove beyond a shadow of doubt who is worthy and who is not. This is evident because Satan supposedly corrupted a third (or so) of the angels in his rebellion. (Revelation 12:4,9) When all is said and done, those who are left after death is done away with will have a thorough knowledge of the consequences of sin, and why the way of God is always right. They will fully appreciate righteousness, instead of ignorantly enjoying eternal life because God never let evil sprout, bloom, and die of its own doing. (imo) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hell (grave) And towards the hell question, I agree with Celeste in post 9. In scripture, the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades both mean "grave". They refer to the collective place of the dead. The other word in the bible that is translated as hell is Gehenna (spelling?). It is Hebrew and is a contracted referrence to the Valley of Ben-Hinnom. (Ben-Hinnom means the "Son of Hinnom".) Anyway, this valley lays outside of Jerusalem. In ancient times, this valley was a large trash dump that was kept burning day and night by adding sulfur. Condemned criminals were also disposed of in this trash pit, as well as those who couldn't afford regular burial. Gehenna was merely used as a metaphor to describe the destruction of the rebellious in the "last day". I don't think this is adequate scriptural referrence to assume that the traditional interpretations of a torturous afterlife are biblically based. Additionally, here are some scriptures that describe the situation rather obviously. Isaiah 5:24; Obadiah 1:17-18; Malachi 4:1-3; Matthew 10:28; 2 Peter 2:12 I also have come to believe that Christians perpetuate the circulation of eternal damnation because they were merged with the Greek pagans just a few centuries after Jesus by Emperor Constantine in an attemt to unite his kingdom and restore peace among the people. The "immortal soul" concept comes from Greek mythology. No where is it found in scripture. Romans 2:7; 1 Corinthians 15:53-54; 1 Timothy 6:13-16; 2 Timothy 1:10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazer2000x Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 The Bible states that eternal life is only obtainable through Christ; but the Biblical concept of life is being in God and living in obediance to Him, while death is the opposite. It is not speaking in the context of existance. Also, something that I found very disturbing on this forum was the way people constantly seemed to come to the conclusion that "god and the devil are one and the same". If I may be so bold, that is a total lie and not only not supported by the scripture, but contradicted by it on every turn. According to the Bible, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God are one. Satan's not in there with them. Satan is kind of in a funny situation, he decided to rebel against God, and as a result got kicked out of heaven. So now he and the 1/3 of the angels he convinced he was right took over the earth instead. Determined to mess up God's plan if they couldn't beat Him head on. The thing is, anyone who decides to follow God, can't be touched by Satan unless God allows it. (in Job Satan had to ask God every time he wanted to do anything to Job). So, Satan has no actual power so to speak, because he and all his kingdom have to obey whatever anyone who really believes in God tells them. Christians are supposed to be battling against him by shaking the hold he has on the people who don't believe. He'll be around until the last trumpet (Revalations), and then Michael and his angels fight Satan and they are all cast and bound in a giant pit. They stay there for 1,000 years and then come back for just a tiny bit to see who has forgotten how to fight them after 1,000 years and make all the nations of the earth war against each other. Then the final judgement comes and Satan, all his demons, and all those he managed to deceive are locked away forever. Can someone please tell me where in all of that it implies that God and satan are the same? 'Cause I'm sure it dosn't. Normaly I don't get very angry when someone believes something like evolution or the big bang theory, because they are trying to rule out the existance of God, which they would not be able to tell is someone trying to trick them until it's too late. But if you do believe in God however slightly, and you choose to think that God and satan are the same, then I don't see how you could possibly miss that you're being lied to. That's why I am strongly against that "idea". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsade Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Satan is a angel. I think this created being is the origin of sin (which is harmful to life). But to address your question , in a very short abstract form, the answer is that while god or (GID the intelligent designer) is perfect , we humans made as flesh and blood (ordinary matter) with equally time limited organic brains cannot comprehend the entire plan that GID has for us. We cannot even comprehend the physical form of the god (which I feel is GID). So what makes us so sure that we would understand the more complicated plans that this GID has for us? Or Satan ? Or the universe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Satan is just a word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsade Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 can't believe I'm reading this stuff at a science forum. This is supposed to be a theology forum, not a preaching soap box. Science what science? This is the theology thread in a science forum, perhaps you are in the wrong topic room? BTW without organized religion there would be no science as we know it today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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