kamil Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I believe that God exists and has infinite power/wisdom etc. So i was just thinking, how does God(having infinite power) allow Satan to exist?:rolleyes: I was thinking that maybe Satan is a metaphor explaining how humans can turn evil. And also hell, does that exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insight Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 God created everything!:) God said, "Don't ask me, you'll see the heaven after you believe in me through the whole life".hihi: What a crap::rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 A way to see it is that good cannot be good if there is no bad as it is a relative judgement. Example of this relativity:A guy who kills 10 people and spares none is "more bad" than a guy who kills 8 and spares 2. So the second can be seen as "more good" than the other one. So in relation to our common sens both are bad but the second in relation to the first is good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I believe that God exists and has infinite power/wisdom etc. So i was just thinking, how does God(having infinite power) allow Satan to exist?To show humanity the example of Choice . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagred Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Well, there is an interesting saying i've heard a few times over the years, it kinda goes like this. Kill 1 man, you're a murdererKill 10 men, you're a serial killerKill thousands you're a tyrant Kill millions, and you are a god. Since god is accepted as having all knowledge and being all powerful, it would mean that satan was part of god's plan. And since we are supposed to rejoice in all of god's creation, then surely the presence of satan should also be celebrated. In my opinion, satan is god and vice versa, they are one and the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2bkmj Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 it sayes in the bible that satan was an anointed chairub in the garden of eden. there to watch over man. but he showed the evil with in himself, and timpted man, so he and other angels were cast out of eden, just as man was. the bible also sayes that he rules the earth, jesus refers to him as the prince of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 How do you decide which religion to believe? Doesn't believing one imply believing all? Including satanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagred Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 it sayes in the bible that satan was an anointed chairub in the garden of eden. there to watch over man. but he showed the evil with in himself, and timpted man, so he and other angels were cast out of eden, just as man was. the bible also sayes that he rules the earth, jesus refers to him as the prince of the world.But surely if god was all powerful and all knowing, it was part of the plan to cast out man and satan? Surely therefore it was god's design. It is isnteresting that there are more than one version of genesis and how man was created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celeste Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Satan is said to be the greatest of all the fallen spirits. He is said to be among the sons of God, that is, supernatural beings, angels, subordinate to God, not opposed to Him. He is also said to be under the control of God.In Matthew 12:24-26, Luke 11:18 and in Revelations 12:7-9, Satan is said to be the ruler of a Kingdom (earth). However, in Revelation 12;9, 20:1-3, 7-10, Satan will inevitably be "thrown down." Personally, I don't believe in Hell (Sheol). Hell was a development in the N.T. In the O.T., Hell or Sheol if you will, was not a place of punishment, torment or torture. It was simply used to mean "the place of the dead or beneath the earth." I think the idea of a place where your eternally tortured was man made. Why else would the entire Old Testament fail to mention it in the context that most religions use today? "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (beneath the earth) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Eternal death) Rev 20:13-15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Satan is a manifestation of the duality of good and evil. A coin's got two sides, yet it still is only one coin. Good and evil are two sides of the same coin - morality. But Satan as we know him, the popular image of a black-haired red-faced dude with a thin little mustach, sideburns and a goatee to complement the little horns on his head, a tail and a pitchfork, is purely a human invention. Good and evil per se could also be said to be a human invention. Morality exists because those that can claim the moral high ground in any imaginable matter get the respect of their peers - even if it is to their detriment. Having the respect of your peers advances you in society. Advancing in society is critical in order to get access to the hottest chicks in order to procreate with good genes. It's all very Darwinian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagred Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 In any case, it's all a human construct imo. The old testament has many stories that completely contradict each other, and besides, all the books were written long after jesus was killed, just as the new testaments were, which seem to be adaptations of the previous versions of the books before, changing the stories or embelishing them for whatever reason is unclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 But Satan as we know him, the popular image of a black-haired red-faced dude with a thin little mustach, sideburns and a goatee to complement the little horns on his head, a tail and a pitchfork, is purely a human invention. I don't know. Add some facial hair and some horns and we're pretty close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Good and evil per se could also be said to be a human invention. I agree with the thrust of your point Boerseun, especially the yin/yang, still one coin concept you raised. However, I'd argue that the good evil split actually dates back to billions of years of evolution. Even single celled organisms respond to basic stimuli like "ouch" and "not ouch." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I am in full agreement with you. And you're right - just give that sucker a coupla horns, and that'll be ole Nick hisself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2bkmj Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 In any case, it's all a human construct imo. The old testament has many stories that completely contradict each other, and besides, all the books were written long after jesus was killed, just as the new testaments were, which seem to be adaptations of the previous versions of the books before, changing the stories or embelishing them for whatever reason is unclearabout the old testament, many people believe it was writen or changed after Jesus died, but thats not the case. i believe it was in the 1960's or 70's that a young sheperd boy found the clay pots, in a cave, that contained what we call the dead sea scrolls. the scrolls are the books of the old testament, and have been dated to have been writen well before Jesus was even born. the translation of the scrolls match the modern day version of the old testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagred Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 about the old testament, many people believe it was writen or changed after Jesus died, but thats not the case. i believe it was in the 1960's or 70's that a young sheperd boy found the clay pots, in a cave, that contained what we call the dead sea scrolls. the scrolls are the books of the old testament, and have been dated to have been writen well before Jesus was even born. the translation of the scrolls match the modern day version of the old testament.You are quite right, the dead sea scrolls pre-date Jesus, a goat herder found the first in 1947. Dating from 35BC to 200 BC or so. Yet, the old testament has contradictory stories in itself, and as you move on through the books, it can't be said that Moses wrote them. Such fundamental differences on the "creation" of adam & eve. And quite a few of the dead sea scrolls were not included in the old testament, because the Essenes weren't keen on them. The bible old or new testament is not in its full form. It has been picked and chosen over hundreds of years finally resulting in the accepted version people read now. There is one other irony; that people are happy to believe science when it says they pre-date Jesus, yet completely refutes the very same science for other things, for say like the age of the Earth. Still, since god is absolute and perfect in every way, he planned satan, and nothing that satan does is against god's plan, surely then as gods creation, satan cannot be evil, and god planned for man to be cast out. If satan was an annointed one of god, wouldnt god know the type of being he was having as his right hand? Wouldn't god make sure that his closest would sing from the same hymm sheet as it were? (no pun intended). In my opnion if there was a god, then god is both good and evil, god is the ultimate power, and does not need to fight against evil, because it can just get rid of it. Or on the other hand, gods wants there to be an "evil." Kind of calls into question the whole point of putting temptation. why would he want to test his creation if he knew it was good? And why threaten those with much smiting who were given the choice not to believe. hmmm, confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad2bkmj Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 your right about somepeople not agreeing with science about the age of the earth, but i'm not one of them. i beleave scince now puts the earth at about 3.8 billon years. i do think the bible has some mistranslations in it, like in genisus, when it refers to creation(the english version). you see when they translated it into english, which has about 400,000 nouns to describe things, from hebrew, which is one of the poorest with nouns, they took the wrong meaning of some words. take the hebrew word yom, which translates to "day long" has more than one meaning, it can mean 12 hours, 24 hours, or a long period of time. but if you look at the bible the fisrt 6 days(time periods) have an evening and a morning, but the seventh does not which tells me we are still in the seventh day. also, the words for evening and morning also mean beginning and ending. now look at the science, the fossil record if you will, we have animals coming into exsistence, then going exstinked, and another coming into exsistence at a diffent time with no link to the one before, then man comes along and no more new animals have come into exsistence since. it saies in genisus god created until he made eve then he stopped, and rested. as far as the plan i think thats another misconception, it sayes your deeds will be recorded in the book of life, and you will have to answer for them on judgement day, not that your life is planned out for you. many people also believe that humans were given freewill but angels were not, thats not the case either, angels do have freewill just like man, the differnce is that man can fall from grace, an repint and receives god grace again, angels can not. the reason for free will is so we have the choice to love god, which makes it true love of our own freewill. if god just wanted everyone to love him reguardless, he could have just created robots that were programed to love him, but they would just follow thier program, and that would not be true love. but thats what i think about creation, why satan was able to defy god, and why god gave us freewill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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