Evolution: Religion or Science?

[Dundasbro]

http://www.evilbible.com

[majordinkydau]

Let me try to make clear the fact that I am not angry with anyone. To the contrary I am able to open my heart to people who used to make me feel very threatened. I am not afraid of what man can do to me so I no long need to defend myself. I ask myself retorical questions and when I see things that control my thinking and limit me I try to stop holding on to them. Maybe my writing style is not effective and my poetry is limp but I don't write for other peoples approval, I write because words overflow in my heart and I find gratification putting them down to be read. I am an enemy of any form of censorship and do not like to overanyalize writings. Billy Collins wrote a poem about poety speaking about this. "some people want to tie a poem to a chiar and beat a coffession out of it with a rubber hose" Nobody thought Van Gogh was an artist during his life and he never sold a painting for a profit but I cannot walk past one of his works without a long deep look into its soul. Van Gogh painted his heart, his technique was not great or flawless but he bared his soul on canvas. I spent my life ashamed of my heart because of a "dysfunctional childhood" Instead I tried to impress others with my skills at jugleing words and an ability to offend.

A skilled lawyer can take a phrase and twist it to mean something compleatly different from what was said originally and we also pratice this warped art. Must we pick apart everything we eat? Is it fear that keeps us from accepting something we can't anaylze and package in bubble wrap?

Let me rave on because I am a madman, schizoaffective disorder and unfit for a place in civlized society. In the summer of love I was locked away in a State Mental hospital and given wonderful chemical creations to make me managable. Nurse Ratchet was not a fictitious characture. I should be living behind the local shopping mall today, seething inside and as stable as 30 year old dynamite.

You might set up science as your god and the hope of all mankind but you'll find yourself dancing around an alter, cutting yourself while Elijah mocks its impotence.

I don't hate science, I just know it can't heal the human spirit, instead like a video game it just demands our attention and distracts us from the things that are of the most importance.

[Southtown]

You might set up science as your god and the hope of all mankind but you'll find yourself dancing around an alter, cutting yourself while Elijah mocks its impotence.

I don't hate science, I just know it can't heal the human spirit, instead like a video game it just demands our attention and distracts us from the things that are of the most importance.

AMEN!!!!1

 

 

I sought help for hopelessness about 10 years ago. I ended up in drug rehab, and I learned the humility and willingness to submit to a higher power before I caused my own end through seeking physical fulfillment. And my eyes were opened, and I was set free.

 

I had a breakdown, and I didn't know where to go for help. I still remember the words of the receptionist at the hospital, "I can't help you." And my faith in science has been shattered ever since. I know what I see, and I know what I feel.

 

What I see is delicate people cocooned in their allegience to society and what it teaches them in school, drudging through life in a straight line, headed for work to support a system that will not miss them when they are gone, treating each other as objects, and wondering why they are lonely. What I feel is the exhuberating liberation of caring for others by treating them as human, and by helping them release the grip that the heartless system has on their sense of self and purpose, and by letting them know that God is love and that everything will be alright.

 

And I am comforted, truly comforted, and that not by knowledge.

[Skippy]

What I don't understand is the fact that whenever someone brings up the subject of evolution, a Christian will become indignant and say that the fact that we are related to monkeys makes them feel "dehumanized". Never mind the fact that the bible says we we're created from dirt...

You and your like-minded friends on this thread (forum) who continue to say that evolution is "fact" need to talk to the people at Harvard University, quick,fast and in a hurry!! This most prestigious institution is about to spend millions of American dollars TO PROVE THAT EVOLUTION IS A FACT :lol: !! Maybe they will give you some of those millions for saving them the embarrasment of looking like "close-minded, uneducated religious extremeists unwilling to accept what is so obvious."

 

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3310302

 

Associated Press

 

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — "Harvard University is joining the long-running debate over the theory of evolution by launching a research project to study how life began.

 

The team of researchers will receive $1 million in funding annually from Harvard over the next few years. The project begins with an admission that some mysteries about life's origins cannot be explained. :)

 

The "Origins of Life in the Universe Initiative" is still in its early stages, scientists told the Boston Sunday Globe. Harvard has told the research team to make plans for adding faculty members and a collection of multimillion-dollar facilities..." :)

[Skippy]

http://www.evilbible.com

Thanks Dundasbro for the most ridiculous post yet. I think even those arguing "For" evolution will agree that site is silly.

[Dundasbro]

Thanks Dundasbro for the most ridiculous post yet. I think even those arguing "For" evolution will agree that site is silly.

I know it's silly, doesn't matter that much to me tho, it points out some inconsistancies in the bible but most of it is just stupid :)

Now that i think about it i can't remember why i posted that in an evolution thread :)

[majordinkydau]

I don't want to lable anyone as stupid or silly because they don't share my piont of view. I do want others to think about what their hearts really crave and to weigh if their beliefs really satisfy that craving. If I spread out my hands and flew over the treetops and canyons like an eagle I would not concider the need to understand how I was able to do such a thing as that important. As Peter got out of the boat and walked on water towards Jesus he did well until he started to look at the tossing waves and realized he was doing something impossible, he began to sink. I read some of the posts on evilbiblle and see a person very angry at god and so every word is an attack on god. People have been struggling to overthrow god for centuries and no one has ever suceeded. Voltair used many of his arguments and stated, "in 100 years the bible will not be remembered" Voltair's estate is one of the largest Bible libraries in Europe today and Voltair is fairly forgotten. The athiest government Voltair helped form resulted in one of the greatest bloodbaths in world history.

Man is born with a one way ticket to eternal separation from God and Christ died to cancle that ticket. Still most people cling to that rotten thing like a child with a stinking security blanket and scream at God for being unjust.

[Skippy]

I know it's silly, doesn't matter that much to me tho, it points out some inconsistancies in the bible but most of it is just stupid :evil:

Now that i think about it i can't remember why i posted that in an evolution thread :)

Perception is not reality. A perceived inconsistency does not equate to an inconsistency (I know, the evolutionists here say that about their religion; "the supposed "gaps" in the fossil record are not really gaps...").

[Eclogite]

This most prestigious institution (Harvard) is about to spend millions of American dollars TO PROVE THAT EVOLUTION IS A FACT[/b]

Associated Press:

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — "Harvard University is joining the long-running debate over the theory of evolution by launching a research project to study how life began.

The origin of life is quite distinct from the subsequent evolution of life.

The Harvard project is not seeking to prove evolution is a fact.

The Harvard project is not studying evolution.

The Harvard Project is investigating abiogenesis in an effort to lift some of the uncertainty that still exists as to the mechanisms and processes involved.

In the rather unlikely event that the Harvard Project were to reveal that the first life was created by God this would in no way invalidate the clear evidence for evolution that exists because the project is not about evolution.

This confusion demonstrates, in part, the danger of using reporters comments - even from an organisation as distinguished as AP, to bolster a scientific argument.

[Skippy]

The origin of life is quite distinct from the subsequent evolution of life.

The Harvard project is not seeking to prove evolution is a fact.

The Harvard project is not studying evolution.

The Harvard Project is investigating abiogenesis in an effort to lift some of the uncertainty that still exists as to the mechanisms and processes involved.

In the rather unlikely event that the Harvard Project were to reveal that the first life was created by God this would in no way invalidate the clear evidence for evolution that exists because the project is not about evolution.

This confusion demonstrates, in part, the danger of using reporters comments - even from an organisation as distinguished as AP, to bolster a scientific argument.

Face it. If abiogenesis isn't a part of evolution theory, then Intelligent Design (or Creationism) is what you have left. You choose to start evolution at some creature you claim as progenitor to human and chimp, but in order to be true to your religion (title of this thread), you must continue back to the beginning. I say it is Genesis 1, you say it is abiogenetic - Harvard is going to try to prove you right. Therefore, evolution has not been proved yet as is claimed here, or are the Harvard sicientists are stupid/deceived/sellouts?

[Fishteacher73]

Face it. If abiogenesis isn't a part of evolution theory, then Intelligent Design (or Creationism) is what you have left. You choose to start evolution at some creature you claim as progenitor to human and chimp, but in order to be true to your religion (title of this thread), you must continue back to the beginning. I say it is Genesis 1, you say it is abiogenetic - Harvard is going to try to prove you right. Therefore, evolution has not been proved yet as is claimed here, or are the Harvard sicientists are stupid/deceived/sellouts?

 

 

Its been said a thousand times.... Evolution does not deal with the origins of life, but what it did once it was there. Evolution really is somewaht compatable with the idea of creationism, but not ID. To continue to intertwine the two, one might as well argue the big bang when talking about plate tectonics.

[Dundasbro]

Perception is not reality. A perceived inconsistency does not equate to an inconsistency (I know, the evolutionists here say that about their religion; "the supposed "gaps" in the fossil record are not really gaps...").

Riiiiiiight...

What exacly do you mean by that? :evil:

[Eclogite]

Face it. If abiogenesis isn't a part of evolution theory, then Intelligent Design (or Creationism) is what you have left.

Again, evolution theory deals with what occurs once a primal organism has been established on the Earth. Current scientific thinking believes this primal organism to have arisen by abiogenesis. There are alternatives:

I do not rule out a single act of creation of a primal organism by a 'creator', though I see no evidence for this, and littel need, in view of the alternatives (including abiogenesis).

Life may have arisen in interstellar space, a notion strongly promoted by Fred Hoyle, among others.

Life may have arisen on other planets and made its way through interstellar space as quiescent bacteria, a second variant of pan spermia.

Life may have been placed here, again as a primal organism, by earlier, intelligent space faring races.

The Big Bang theory may be invalid and the Universe, and life, may have existed for ever. Our inability to comprehend this possibility may be more a reflecion on the limits of our imaginations than the validity of the concept.

So, I think you can see from the above that ID is not the only option.

You choose to start evolution at some creature you claim as progenitor to human and chimp

I'm not entirely sure why you are bringing up humans and chimps. They are representatives of the primates that are of interest largely because we are they. I certainly don't choose to start evolution with humans and chimps, or their progenitor. If I am contemplating evolution I am much more likely to be thinking in terms of invertebrates and micro-fossils, or perhaps the major Famlies within the vertebrates.

you must continue back to the beginning. I say it is Genesis 1, you say it is abiogenetic - Harvard is going to try to prove you right. Therefore, evolution has not been proved yet as is claimed here, or are the Harvard sicientists are stupid/deceived/sellouts?

As I noted in my previous post, the Harvard scientists are not trying to prove evolution. This is a misinterpretation by an apparently uneducated reporter at AP compounded by the inactions of an ineffective editor. As I suggested in my last post, there are risks associated with using the words of reporters as providing a clear statement of the intentions of others. In short, the AP report got it wrong, so any logical arguments arising out of such are report are inherently flawed.

[Southtown]

Life may have arisen in interstellar space, a notion strongly promoted by Fred Hoyle, among others.

Life may have arisen on other planets and made its way through interstellar space as quiescent bacteria, a second variant of pan spermia.

These would both qualify as abiogenesis, hence the use of the term arisen twice.

 

Life may have been placed here, again as a primal organism, by earlier, intelligent space faring races.

This would qualify as intelligent design, even if they aren't eternal or omniscient.

 

The Big Bang theory may be invalid and the Universe, and life, may have existed for ever. Our inability to comprehend this possibility may be more a reflecion on the limits of our imaginations than the validity of the concept.

Funny you should present the idea of eternity as an alternative to God. This is beginning to sound more reasonable. The way I see it, since we do factually exist now, either something can come from nothing, or nothing never was.

[Boerseun]

We can't see the forest for the trees.

 

The Universe wasn't 'created' for our pleasure. Far from it. We are the result of thousands of millions of years of... well, stuff happening. And the origins of this, er..., stuff, could have been the collapse of the previous round of stuff.

 

Think about it.

 

If the principle of mediocrity holds, then humans as we know them aren't the end of evolution. We've still got a heck of a lot of evolution to go. Couple o' million years from now and you'll battle to recognize mankind (or what's left of it). So why are we supposed to be special right now?

 

Simple answer - we're not. We just have to learn to be humble and live with it.

[majordinkydau]

We can't see the forest for the trees.

 

The Universe wasn't 'created' for our pleasure. Far from it. We are the result of thousands of millions of years of... well, stuff happening. And the origins of this, er..., stuff, could have been the collapse of the previous round of stuff.

 

Think about it.

 

If the principle of mediocrity holds, then humans as we know them aren't the end of evolution. We've still got a heck of a lot of evolution to go. Couple o' million years from now and you'll battle to recognize mankind (or what's left of it). So why are we supposed to be special right now?

 

Simple answer - we're not. We just have to learn to be humble and live with it.

 

Sorry but humility was the most difficult part of perfection for me to master.

[Southtown]

We can't see the forest for the trees.

 

The Universe wasn't 'created' for our pleasure. Far from it. We are the result of thousands of millions of years of... well, stuff happening. And the origins of this, er..., stuff, could have been the collapse of the previous round of stuff.

 

Think about it.

 

If the principle of mediocrity holds, then humans as we know them aren't the end of evolution. We've still got a heck of a lot of evolution to go. Couple o' million years from now and you'll battle to recognize mankind (or what's left of it). So why are we supposed to be special right now?

 

Simple answer - we're not. We just have to learn to be humble and live with it.

You assume 1) all causality is spontaneous and 2) "special" is the same as perfect. Spontaneity is not prerequisite of all causality i.e. I can take a bat to my monitor at any time. LOL And lots of people are special to me, but none of them are perfect.