Will technology save us?

[geokker]

I think it is fair to say that the increasing sophistication in technology will continue unabated for as long as we maintain a relatively peaceful society.

 

Taking into consideration the burdon of the flesh, the non-zero probability of a catacalysmic impact of something or other on this planet and the vastness of interstellar distances, is it a given that we will dissolve our bodies into machines to assure our long-range survival?

 

An example:

 

The Earth is going to blow in 100 years. Radiation will render the solar system nonviable for even heavily augmented biology. Possible planetary candidates in other star systems are simply too far away.

 

Do we:

 

A) Party and die.

:hihi: Party, hope a bit, then die.

C) Party, hope space aliens will save us then die.

D) Attempt to build robust, radiation-proof machines into which we can deposit our minds and live in a simulated reality while continuing to advance technology (at perhaps an accelerated rate) to the point where we can create more options e.g. faster than light travel, reconstituted biology etc. etc.

 

I'm thinking Tron, Matrix etc.

 

The question is - is this the future?

 

[Notice I specifically haven't said 'inevitable'.]

[Tormod]

I think it is fair to say that the increasing sophistication in technology will continue unabated for as long as we maintain a relatively peaceful society.

 

Interesting post.

 

What is a "relatively peaceful society"? Japan, China, Taiwan? USA? Korea?

 

The greatest technological achievments of the previous century were all directly or indirectly results of war.

[UncleAl]

is it a given that we will dissolve our bodies into machines to assure our long-range survival?

 

The only part of you that is you is your brain.

 

1) We have no idea whatsover how to create any intelligence in any medium, in vivo or in silico.

 

2) We have no idea how to modify an existing intelligence (e.g., MK-ULTRA).

 

3) Your quote ain't gonna happen.

 

If you want to live forever (OK, a few hundred years), turn on global somatic telomerase. Your genetic structure will then persist through indeterminate numbers of cell divisions. Your lifespan will only be limited by accumulation of intractable metabolic wastes, accumulation of irreversible mutations, or frank physical damage.

 

You'll be senile by about 100 years of age. I cannot imagine what another 400 years of living will gain you. Try asking a fundie Christian.

[Biochemist]

...The greatest technological achievments of the previous century were all directly or indirectly results of war.

Wow, Tormod. I never thought of this. Even in medicine, I can think of a list of advances in medicine that were peace-time driven, but the number of medical advances that were war related is striking.

 

Do you suppose we advance best by fighting?

[geokker]

relatively peaceful = nothing that propels us into the stone age - or worse. I'm sure warfare will continue deeply into the future.

 

UncleAl,

 

The only part of you that is you is your brain.

 

I agree with that statement to a fair degree.

 

1. Perhaps for now, but the future - who's to say? A thousand years ago, who could have imagined television?

 

2. Who are 'We'? What is 'MK-ULTRA'?

 

3. Bold statement. Things change - fast. In the future, digitizing a human consciousness might be a matter of engineering a machine capable of simulating the constituent particles adequately. You think a two dimensional, silicon, 50 million transistor electron shuttling cpu is powerful? Wait.

 

Back to the question. We will change. Will we migrate into machines?

[Harzburgite]

Will we migrate into machines?

I'll ask you the same question you asked UA, 'Who [or what] is we ?'

We (in this case humanity) does not understand exactly what constitutes self or consciousness. It is difficult to imagine transfering something we do not have a handle on.

[UncleAl]

First world civilization is crippled by 2015 when the Baby Boomers are retired and scream "GIMME!" all as one. First World civilization is ended by 2050 when all the easily extracted petroleum has been recovered. We have 10 years to get our act together as a planet and perhaps 40 to completely revise all science in ways we cannot presently imagine. Or we die starving, drowned in our own wastes.

 

Don't worry about 2100. It won't be there to worry about. If it makes you feel any better, "GIMME!" is "ubi es mea" in Latin.

[bumab]

Do you suppose we advance best by fighting?

 

Yes. Always yes-

 

necessity is the mother of invention, and there is no greater necessity then survival.

[karlfreak]

yes i belive one day humanitie in all it's greatnest will be brought to it's knees just like everything else that we destroyed but i think that it will be mother nature that does it and technoligy will become obsulete because it is normally the most simple that are the most evolved

[Eclogite]

because it is normally the most simple that are the most evolved

This statement is counterintuitive. Can you support it with examples?

[nkt]

it is normally the most simple that are the most evolved

Dangerous ground, is that. Evolution may drive towards either simplicity or complexity. In lean times, sparse is good, since you will win through getting to breeding age fastest, then out-breeding the competitors. However, a clever competitor may be a parasite, and hence piggybacks up the tree with you.

 

Tapeworms are simple, effective, and dumb. But they are evolutionarily clever.

 

Humans are easily the brightest of Earth's creatures, and we need the huge resources we use for running this top-notch processor of ours. But many are wasted entirely, because there is plenty, and others to entertain.

 

However wasteful we become, however, there are still a few people who can see the issues and bring them up, and, either through a patch or a fix, we muddle onwards.

 

Obviously, technology has saved us so far, but, and this is a big butt, we keep consuming more, both as individuals, and as a species. Gene engineering is tricky when there are no species to tweak to greater efficiency. Clever ideas that are great and noble are killed by shear weight of numbers. Everything counts in large amounts, everything goes to hell if you let it.

 

So will we make it? Well, if our technology gets too advanced, it will replace us all, as it will be fitter from an evolutionary side. If that happens, we will either lose, or lose. If we win the fight as a war, we end up back in the stone age, and if we win without war, we lose a lot of tech, so millions starve.

 

Human nature just won't let us get to some happy place. If human greed had limits, billionaires would surely just stop sucking up yet more oil/money/power!

[C1ay]

No, in many ways it is ruining us. I am astounded by the people I meet that cannot calculate in their head or on paper. This is the result of requiring today's students to bring a calculator to class. Since when did math class become how-to-use-a-calculator class? Try giving the next cashier you encounter the change to make the sale even after they have rung up the sale already and you will see they cannot count your change without their machine doing the math for them :)

 

Many people do not know how to cook anything except for heat-and-eat type meals. They cannot mix up some flour with a few rudimentary ingredients from the kitchen to make bread, biscuits, cake or other things. Technology has robbed the passing of such knowledge from one generation to the next.

 

Many kids these days learn how to tie their shoes with velcro. Me thinks it will not teach them the ability to tie up a package for the mail though.

 

The examples could go on and on where the progression of technology is actually causing a loss of knowledge. This will not save us.

[Biochemist]

No, in many ways it is ruining us. I am astounded by the people I meet that cannot calculate in their head or on paper....Many people do not know how to cook anything except for heat-and-eat type meals...Many kids these days learn how to tie their shoes with velcro....This will not save us.

I agree with this. People aroung me are a little surprised when I estimate mortgages in my head. Or when I make cheescake.

 

I think the world began to crumple when they let folks use calculators on exams instead of slide rules.

[IrishEyes]

Brilliant post, C1ay - as usual. I quite agree. But it reminds me of something that we discussed a month or so ago...

Remember when I took that break from all things electronic, and I actually had to write out checks and mail off bills in an envelope? When I didn't use my computer, and lost my cell phone? When I refused to let the kids watch tv, and made them play outside?

Remember what your reaction was?

Granted I still had my stove, so cooking wasn't that big of a deal. But it was an interesting month or so, let me tell you. There were really no headaches. Please don't take that as "Irish hates technology". I don't, not at all. How could I be truly happy without all of you? :)

But there is something to be said for going simple on occasion, if for no other reason than to realize/remember how dependent on technology most of us have become.

As for making change - I LOVE to switch the amount to checkout girls, just to see if they know what to do. If something costs $18.31, I may hold out a $20, then add 2 quarters after they ring in the $20. That's a bit dangerous sometimes though- some of them really hate it when you do that. Of course, that's not as bad as the ones who laugh when admitting how horrible their 'counting' is...

And making food - when my Mom died, the only things I wanted were her Bible and her cookbooks. I regularly conduct cooking classes in my kitchen, with ALL of my kids (girls AND boys). Not only is it a great way to introduce math concepts (especially good to double recipies), but it also ensures that they will all be able to make more than ramen noodles and microwave popcorn. Cooking really does seem to be a lost art these days... too bad really. Some of my fondest memories are with my Grandma in her kitchen. She wouldn't dream of using Bisquick, much less buying canned biscuits!

[C1ay]

I agree with this. People aroung me are a little surprised when I estimate mortgages in my head. Or when I make cheescake.

 

I think the world began to crumple when they let folks use calculators on exams instead of slide rules.

Mental math is really no that bad if you practice at it. There's all kinds of little shortcuts you develop to make it easier and easier. I think calculators have dealt the single largest blow to the math curriculum in this country. At least and understanding of the slide rule would teach logarithms just by understanding the tool itself.

 

Remember when I took that break from all things electronic, and I actually had to write out checks and mail off bills in an envelope? When I didn't use my computer, and lost my cell phone? When I refused to let the kids watch tv, and made them play outside?

Remember what your reaction was?

Vaguely. I'm a realist though and know how dependant we can let ourselves become on technology.

But there is something to be said for going simple on occasion, if for no other reason than to realize/remember how dependent on technology most of us have become.

I love roughing it. Give me a campfire and a teepee next to running water and I can survive and be happy while I'm doing it. I enjoy technology but I can live without it just fine if I need to. I can also cook just about anything from scratch on an open fire that can be cooked in the kitchen.

As for making change - I LOVE to switch the amount to checkout girls, just to see if they know what to do. If something costs $18.31, I may hold out a $20, then add 2 quarters after they ring in the $20. That's a bit dangerous sometimes though- some of them really hate it when you do that. Of course, that's not as bad as the ones who laugh when admitting how horrible their 'counting' is...

Or you hand them 23.31 so you can get a 5 back and they say something like, "you gave me 3 extra dollars". I don't know how they pass the high school proficiency test unless the test is a joke. What's fun is remembering how much certain things cost at the convenience store you buy gas at. I love to stop and buy something like $7.88 worth of gas, run in and grab a donut and a cup of coffee and it rings up to $10 even, it really messes with their head.

And making food - when my Mom died, the only things I wanted were her Bible and her cookbooks. I regularly conduct cooking classes in my kitchen, with ALL of my kids (girls AND boys). Not only is it a great way to introduce math concepts (especially good to double recipies), but it also ensures that they will all be able to make more than ramen noodles and microwave popcorn. Cooking really does seem to be a lost art these days... too bad really. Some of my fondest memories are with my Grandma in her kitchen. She wouldn't dream of using Bisquick, much less buying canned biscuits!

I can't even believe the manufacturers of ramen noodles can stay in business selling pretend food. And Bisquick is only fit for teenage bachelors. Anything you can make with Bisquick can be put together nearly as fast from scratch with much better flavor.

[IrishEyes]

What's fun is remembering how much certain things cost at the convenience store you buy gas at. I love to stop and buy something like $7.88 worth of gas, run in and grab a donut and a cup of coffee and it rings up to $10 even, it really messes with their head.

Picking out exactly 20 things at the Dollar Tree will ring up to exactly $21, here in Virginia. And you know, no matter how many times we go in there and do just that, the same cashier is amazed at the exact dollar amount every single time.

Now that is scary!!

[Little Bang]

I agree C1ay, a kid should not know what a calculatoris until they reach college.