Gravity as another dimension

[Time_Travel]

Can Gravity itself be considered as the 5th dimension?

The first 4 being , Length,Breadth,Height, Time.

If it can't be considered why and what known laws will it affect if it is considered?

[Gordon Freeman]

If you consider gravity as a dimension, you also have to consider it's duality in affect to anti-gravito forces as well. However, gravity can't technically be a dimension because it's not a measurement, it's an affect. At least by definition it is.

 

What makes up dimensions are measurements and the properties those measurements instill. So in a short and simple answer, it's just not possible.

[Vox]

If you consider gravity as a dimension, you also have to consider it's duality in affect to anti-gravito forces as well. However, gravity can't technically be a dimension because it's not a measurement, it's an affect. At least by definition it is.

 

What makes up dimensions are measurements and the properties those measurements instill. So in a short and simple answer, it's just not possible.

 

According to this theory, forces (gravity) could have an effect across the different dimensions?

 

News from ICTP 94 - Commentary — ICTP Portal

[Gordon Freeman]

They definitely affect other dimensions, but just because they may be mostly located in the fifth dimension, does not mean that gravity IS the fifth dimension.

 

It's also assumed that if the affect of gravity originates from the fifth dimension, much of the leak of gravitons trickles downward to the fourth and third etc., but not nearly as much outward to the sixth-twelfth. This is mainly because of the energy difference required for transport between higher and lower dimensional shifts.

[maddog]

The Kaluza-Klein theory did create a unification of Gravity with Electromagnatism.

In this EM was operated as 1-added dimension with behavior as U(1) group. It is

my understanding that because a graviton (force of gravity) has a spin of 2, so

would not conform to just a single added dimension. Maybe one as complex ?

 

Moreover in some string theories there is an association with gravity to E8 which

is a group of order 8.

 

For more accurate details let qfwfq chime in here.

 

maddog

[belovelife]

I think gravity is the first step to magnetism,

 

gravity

magnetism

space-time bend ( see pulsars )

 

where gravity is a specific type of force in space-time that is created for nano- amounts of time due to the annihilation and recreation of matter/anti-matter pairs that define the nucleus

of the atom

where increased frequency of this process dictates:

gravity wells ( strength )

observed electromagnetic spectrum

particle interaction on a molecular level

 

where when the pair is present, gravity occurs

therefore a weak force of gravity

 

take duterium vs water

duterium is heavier ( stronger gravity well )

than water

 

when duterium throws off the extra energy ( in the form of red light- see nutrino )

the decreased frequency of the matter/anti-matter pair annihilation and creation

reduces the size of the gravity well by the matter/antimatter pairs being less frequent

[C. michael Turner]

Can Gravity itself be considered as the 5th dimension?

 

The first 4 being , Length,Breadth,Height, Time.

 

If it can't be considered why and what known laws will it affect if it is considered?

"If spacetime is another dimension then why not gravity too, what the heck.." - anonomus

If a mechanic told you that your car needed to be fixed in 5 dimensions would you pay him before it is fixed? Imagine that we live in a universe that is only three dimensions and so that the universe is not totally boreing, our universe has action, a driving force that runs the big show, maybe a shadow government, spooky action at a distance long distance gravity and yet local gravity too. Maybe gravity is part of the operating system, which has a process that allows many layer of local gravities and many layers of differing observations of long distance gravity. This operating system of the universe, which has many observed phenomonon and laws, must fall in line with the observed and it would also be kind of nice if it was simple to understand and made a heck of a lot of sence.

It would be nice to live in this universe in which Time, Space, and Gravity are actions of this stealth process that runs the really, really big show and also defines the limits within then really, really, really small show, really. Well, we do, you and me, live in that universe. The stealth process that explains the relationship of matter, energy, time, space and gravity is that .... Oh heck, I have to go to dinner now. Okay next post, hang in there...

[Cold-co]

I'm sorry I cannot conveive of gravity as a dimension. It is an acceleration that operates in all directions. It operates between gram masses as well as orbiting planets. It is not a dimension unless you consider acceleration a dimension.

[HydrogenBond]

Consider this contrast. We have a solar system size volume of rarefied matter. Next, we have all this matter compressed to neutron density of relativistic (GR) size. If both situations have the same mass, which of the two gravity sources will have more impact at long distances?

 

The obvious answer is, since they both have the same mass, both will be the same. However, since the neutron density is seeing higher space-time contraction due to GR, when someone on that reference plugs their perceived d=distance into the gravity equations, since it sees (measures) distance being shorter, it will calculate higher gravity at all distances. This assumes the laws of physics are the same in all references and we can use the same equations.

 

As such, to calculate the expansion, the summation of gravity in the universe is not just what we see in our reference (there is no chosen reference) but also has to take into account the summation/average of what all the GR references calculate; function (contracted d). This could be modeled as a dimension just to help simplify calculations.

 

If we look at black hole, since its singularity gives it a perception of d=0 everywhere, so it can see to infinity, it sees gravity way ahead of the expansion and will calculate gravity is being almost infinite thereby closing the universe. But we also need to average that POV with what we on earth see, that has the universe appear to be open.

[maddog]

I see I may have added to the confusion than simplify.

 

What I was getting at was that Gravity as a force can express itself in a number of dimensions. Not that it IS a

dimension. The number we think of in Classical physics (i.e. Newton) is 3 dimensions. General Relativity added one to 4

(4th being time). However, from current thinking in String Theory (or M-Theory) the number of dimension is up to 11

to have Gravity work (M-Theory). Where Gravity has been associated with E8 - you are working with 3 + 1 + 7 = 11.

Time is still considered a single (scalar) dimension. I had recently read a paper where F-Theory was seriously being considered.

This would be in 12 dimensions (4 + 8) where time is merged with a spacetime (4). Alternately I can see where a

3 + 7 + 2 = 12 also. This would allow time to become complex or two real dimensions. There may be other prohibitions on

this though.

 

maddog

[kseniamat]

Are you sure...if gravity can be consider like as 5th dimension - can exists known laws ? My question is simple .

[hummingbird]

If you consider gravity as a dimension, you also have to consider it's duality in affect to anti-gravito forces as well. However, gravity can't technically be a dimension because it's not a measurement, it's an affect. At least by definition it is.

 

What makes up dimensions are measurements and the properties those measurements instill. So in a short and simple answer, it's just not possible.

 

I have to agree with gordon on this one.

[hummingbird]

actually gravity is the effect caused by magnetism, like wind is effected by high and low temps imo.

[hummingbird]

I see I may have added to the confusion than simplify.

 

What I was getting at was that Gravity as a force can express itself in a number of dimensions. Not that it IS a

dimension. The number we think of in Classical physics (i.e. Newton) is 3 dimensions. General Relativity added one to 4

(4th being time). However, from current thinking in String Theory (or M-Theory) the number of dimension is up to 11

to have Gravity work (M-Theory). Where Gravity has been associated with E8 - you are working with 3 + 1 + 7 = 11.

Time is still considered a single (scalar) dimension. I had recently read a paper where F-Theory was seriously being considered.

This would be in 12 dimensions (4 + 8) where time is merged with a spacetime (4). Alternately I can see where a

3 + 7 + 2 = 12 also. This would allow time to become complex or two real dimensions. There may be other prohibitions on

this though.

 

maddog

 

has time every been considered a process of decay, like from the process of electro magnetic residue decay?

[Gordon Freeman]

Gravity is not an affect of magnetism, in fact, it's been theorized, on hypography itself, that gravity is leaked into our dimension in the form of the graviton particle. So it is possible that the affect of gravity is produced by the interactions between normal matter and energy-attracted particles like gravitons. You could say the electronegative affect between elements helps generate this attraction, therefore the electronegative affect is the source of gravity, but this statement causes several problems, especially when considering the amount of energy needed, and therefore used, in the process of attraction. An atom would run out of energy in a relatively short period of time if the nuclear binding energy alone was the source of gravity. Energy has to be leaking from somewhere to supply the necessary transition of the Gravity Effect. If graviton particles are emitted in large amounts, created from the nuclear binding energy of atoms, it's possible to sustain the affect without losing the energy needed to hold the atom together, if energy is leaking into our dimension from a larger one. But that last bit is just my opinion. The theorist that supposed the idea of the graviton claims that the particle itself comes from a separate dimension, but my discrepancy with that idea is that for matter to travel between dimensions, it takes a massive amount of energy, whereas simply moving energy around between dimensions is very easy (in comparison). What ever takes less energy always tends to become the norm in science. The universe favors that which uses the least amount of energy, ergo my hypothesis seems more likely initially.

 

So getting back to the topic, gravity cannot be a dimension, but the source of its source may come from a different dimension.

[C. michael Turner]

Gravity is not an affect of magnetism, in fact, it's been theorized, on hypography itself, that gravity is leaked into our dimension in the form of the graviton particle. So it is possible that the affect of gravity is produced by the interactions between normal matter and energy-attracted particles like gravitons. You could say the electronegative affect between elements helps generate this attraction, therefore the electronegative affect is the source of gravity, but this statement causes several problems, especially when considering the amount of energy needed, and therefore used, in the process of attraction. An atom would run out of energy in a relatively short period of time if the nuclear binding energy alone was the source of gravity. Energy has to be leaking from somewhere to supply the necessary transition of the Gravity Effect. If graviton particles are emitted in large amounts, created from the nuclear binding energy of atoms, it's possible to sustain the affect without losing the energy needed to hold the atom together, if energy is leaking into our dimension from a larger one. But that last bit is just my opinion. The theorist that supposed the idea of the graviton claims that the particle itself comes from a separate dimension, but my discrepancy with that idea is that for matter to travel between dimensions, it takes a massive amount of energy, whereas simply moving energy around between dimensions is very easy (in comparison). What ever takes less energy always tends to become the norm in science. The universe favors that which uses the least amount of energy, ergo my hypothesis seems more likely initially.

 

So getting back to the topic, gravity cannot be a dimension, but the source of its source may come from a different dimension.

Hello There,

Instead of gravity being leaked into our dimension in the form of Gravitons from another dimension consider this...

All matter and energy decay into gravitons which align into non interacting waves. Anotherwords gravity is a by-product of the electromagnetic field, strong and weak field.

Think of an evaporating body of water, a spring fed lake, whose level is constant, not because nothing is happening but the level is constant because two things are happening that balance the level. First, water is evaporating creating humidity and second a hidden spring is replenishing the lake keeping the level constant. Now apply this concept to matter and space. As the lake evaporates creating humidity matter and energy decay creating space itself via gravitons given off into aligning non breakable monopole gravitational waves. As a spring replenishes the lake with water molecules, background radiation is absorbed in packets to fill in the decaying matter and energy via guided by principles of magnetic field stabilization.

 

 

Note: Everything can be understood to work in only three dimensions and such mathematical necessities such as virtual particles can be understood as packets of tension. That last part was my brain expanding an earlier incomplete thought.

[hummingbird]

Gravity is not an affect of magnetism, in fact, it's been theorized, on hypography itself, that gravity is leaked into our dimension in the form of the graviton particle. So it is possible that the affect of gravity is produced by the interactions between normal matter and energy-attracted particles like gravitons. You could say the electronegative affect between elements helps generate this attraction, therefore the electronegative affect is the source of gravity, but this statement causes several problems, especially when considering the amount of energy needed, and therefore used, in the process of attraction. An atom would run out of energy in a relatively short period of time if the nuclear binding energy alone was the source of gravity. Energy has to be leaking from somewhere to supply the necessary transition of the Gravity Effect. If graviton particles are emitted in large amounts, created from the nuclear binding energy of atoms, it's possible to sustain the affect without losing the energy needed to hold the atom together, if energy is leaking into our dimension from a larger one. But that last bit is just my opinion. The theorist that supposed the idea of the graviton claims that the particle itself comes from a separate dimension, but my discrepancy with that idea is that for matter to travel between dimensions, it takes a massive amount of energy, whereas simply moving energy around between dimensions is very easy (in comparison). What ever takes less energy always tends to become the norm in science. The universe favors that which uses the least amount of energy, ergo my hypothesis seems more likely initially.

 

So getting back to the topic, gravity cannot be a dimension, but the source of its source may come from a different dimension.

 

 

and what is the attraction between two masses? Magnetism. :)