What is the true purpose of our life here on Earth?

[Dark Mind]

First of all I dont think you can call the activity performed by most people to seek their true purpose in life. That would be a gross overstatement. They get a question, what is the meaning of life? Think for about... two seconds and write some mubo jumo with no respect to what science has to say about it. Thats like creating your own theory of atoms or what not without having a clue about it. Its amusing and funny, yes, but it gets sceary when you spend 80 years based on your little "theory."

It'd be a little scarier if someone went that long and came to absolutley no conclusion as to what their purpose in life shuld be by that point :D.

 

Basically I believe there to be quite a lot of misunderstandings to the question mentioned.

1. If its been asked since the dawn of civilization, mabye we should see if there is any better way to solve it than the one we have used for 10.000 of years?

Which method have we been using? Questioning?... Then what what other is solution is there? Pulling the answer out of your ear? ;)

 

2. The fact that we ask for a purpose or meaning might be the reason this mind boggering question have followed us for all this time. If we ask for a purpose or meaning we presume that something have given us that purpose or meaning. (The idéa that we create our own meaning is not founded on any resaon I can think of and i therefore disregard it.) Already here you see that we can not ask this question at all! Problem solved! The real question I believe is: What is our function here? Which is alot easier to answer, but stil fairly complecated to explain in a easy way.

I think we've already discovered our function (To learn...), but based on the premise that purpose follows function we now need to discern our purpose here to bring the system full cirlce.

 

You think that the only way for us to have purpose is for there to be some omniscient, omnipotent being that has created all life and governs the universe we live in... :D That is just a way for some people to easily answer that question (What is the purpose of life?) with the response of something to the tune of "To serve our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ." or "To follow and preach the teachings of God." these people are usually religious fanatics and I would be surprised to find anyone of them that would post a reply in this Forum :D (I'm thinking of infamous and IrishEyes with that last bit ;)). If you ever hope to derive a (scientific) purpose from your otherwise pointless life you are going to need to immediately discard that belief ;).

 

3. As you see, I believe in objective truth, and therefore also that the objective truth goes for everyone. So yes, i believe that we can find one function for all.

Done ;).

 

4. As I have explained science can now solve all the problems you have left to the obviously bogus thing called spirituality. (I dont know if you are aware of it but the bodysoulspiritmind thing is getting more and more down to the fact that there is noting but our body and the materials its made of. But again, who gives a sh** about facts and stuff?)

I give two sh**'s about facts and stuff :)! :D

 

Science explained that years ago, religious people know them, they still believe in God (or whatever deity you worship or pray to, like him -> : :), :D) because what the scriptures have "taught" cannot be scientifically proven or disproven, they must be taken soley (or soul-ly :D) on faith in the "fact" that God spoke to a mere mortal and enlisted him to tranfer what he was told to the general public... If that had happened just today everybody would just think the guy was crazy or that he was coming down off a bad (Or good :shrug, you decide ;)) acid trip, since he thought some invisible person was trying to teach him something that would only influence how he lived out his life or gave his life some new found structure and gave no more reason or purpose (Other than to be thankful for some guy who died for all of our sins, which we ironically are still expected to pray [beg in my mind :D...] for forgiveness for if we do sin :lol:.) to our life. People would put a man like that in an asylum nowadays, but back then people needed some way to feel less depressed (Slavery had to suck :(...) and thinking that if they led a good (morally correct) life, they got to go to Heaven... Well, hey. It. Just. Might. Work ;).

 

Congrats...

 

OBS! This is of course my view of right now, and i have no problems seeing that it has quite a bit of holes, but I think it does a better job keeping the water out than most other theories.

That's what everyone thinks ;).

[BEAKER]

"Let us hear the the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His comandments,

for this is the whole duty of man."

 

Ecclesiastes - the bible.:lol:

[automatic existence]

It'd be a little scarier if someone went that long and came to absolutley no conclusion as to what their purpose in life shuld be by that point :D.

 

Basically you are saying that you dont care enough about the answer to try and find it. Isent this the wa it is with everything? You dont know that you will ever figure anything out, but NOBODY exept from those who took the risk you are mentioning have done anything worth mentioning. But that dosent really matter to me. Im not concerned about sucsess. Neither am I interested in wasting my time here doing nothing but the casual; be born, eat, ****, piss, reproduce, get old and die. Of course you can make that timline seem really nice by making it all glorius and get on your high horses but... you have no reason to do so, or you might have but it has been prooved (this might be discussed) wrong. If you put your ego, wishes and hopes aside and see the world from a (close to) unbiased view it will surely scare you, but if its the truth I think its woth it. Now the reason we have a really hard time seeing clearly is not becouse the evidence is ambiguous, but because our minds distort the facts to fit our picture. We see the world the way we wish to see it. So no, I think its better to search for an answer, which I by the way think is already found, than to stay in the dark corners of ignorance. But you are free to disagree, which just means I either havent stated what I mean clearly enough or that I am wrong.

 

Which method have we been using? Questioning?... Then what what other is solution is there? Pulling the answer out of your ear? :).

 

Heh, that might do the trick, but I have another solution. The method we have been using until now has not been to search for the answer, but to create the "answer" we wish was the real one. It is often hard to separate between the two because its so well integrated into us, and I think its actually "unhuman" to want the correct answer and not just the one who fits one best. And I am not saying that I am not searching for what I want, but I dont think I am, which is as much certanty that I can get. So basiclly I would say the solution to a lot of questions would be to not fear the results, and to se beyond the patethic wish of our minds to create answers and reality as we see fit.

 

I think we've already discovered our function (To learn...), but based on the premise that purpose follows function we now need to discern our purpose here to bring the system full cirlce..

 

Hmm, I did not know that. How do we know our function is to learn? I have trouble seeing that as anything but a "self given" purpose, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but not our "objectve" function. Second if learning was our function, I dont belive you mean that humans have given themselvs this function. Therefore we must hav gotten it from something before us. And our chain goes back to the big bang, if it ever was such a thing. Before that, i think, its unknown what existed, but this is my point. We can be traced back as far as the universe excisted, therefore what has given us our function MUST have been either before the existense of the universe AND have created that universe (which seems to invoke a kind of god) or it MUST be outside our dimensions, and independent from our universe. I believe this to be logical necessities.

 

You think that the only way for us to have purpose is for there to be some omniscient, omnipotent being that has created all life and governs the universe we live in... :lol: That is just a way for some people to easily answer that question (What is the purpose of life?) with the response of something to the tune of "To serve our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ." or "To follow and preach the teachings of God." these people are usually religious fanatics and I would be surprised to find anyone of them that would post a reply in this Forum :) (I'm thinking of infamous and IrishEyes with that last bit :D). If you ever hope to derive a (scientific) purpose from your otherwise pointless life you are going to need to immediately discard that belief :D.

 

I see what you mean, but I if you want to prove me wrong, which i dont mind at all, (remember: Seek not to please the ego, but seek progress) I would advice you to tell me why these theories are wrong:

 

- We can not create our own function, that goes against its definition (In this case, the function of our existence).

 

- That nothing but the criterias above can give reasons for a "something" that can give us a function (except solution below.*)

 

* I have a third alternative which dosent need a beingcreaturegod to give us purposefunction, and which dosent need something outside of our universe to do so either. This might be the most flawed part of my post but here I go: If the universe has existed for an infinit amount of time and will continue to do so, nothing would come before or after. Therefore it would never exist anything but what has existed (in one form or another) and therefore the only thing which determine our function is what has changed the content of the universe from something else to us. Therefore i present the Laws of Nature as our "God", which has given us our purposefunction. Here comes the difficulty. This could be, as I have seen some other person on this board promoting, complete entropy or heat death (wich seems unlikely because the universe expands faster than it can produce entropy. Could someone give me a reply to this?) or in other cases it might be alot of things. This is where I am not yet very sure. But it concludes with this no matter what: We are not important in ANY way to ANY creature, planet, universe or anything else. We are completly irrelevant and merely a virus with shoes. This is not a good thing and its not a bad thing. This is NOT a reason to kill yourself (even if its irrelevant if you do) but its neither a reason to live. So Huston, we got a problem.

 

This was my little rant and I hope that somebody got anything useful out of it. You are welcome to tell me where my inconstancys are or where I am mistaken (which I probabley are a lot.) If you have trouble understandig me or is bothered by my grammatical errors, I have but a week exuce; Im fairly young and I come from a non-english speaking country.

Looking forward to responses.

 

PS.

 

"Let us hear the the conclusion of the whole matter:

Fear God and keep His comandments,

for this is the whole duty of man."

 

I do not want to totally disregard religion because I have no reason to do so BUT I have no reason whatsoever to believe any of it. And based on my experience of reality neither have anyone else. If you also inclued the human psyche to the picture its easy to explain the phenomenon in much esaier ways than its own intended way. I therefore have no reason to take it into account, I can only ignore it. But if it should be true, which would indeed be frightening I think that would pretty much win the case to prove us (humanity) as a fairly well integrated gang of loonies.

 

Edit: Fixed a quote

[Dark Mind]

Okay, this took a while, but I finally did it! :D

 

Too bad we don't speak the same language... I feel a lot is getting lost in translation. I do feel I essentially believe the same things as you, but I don't think you're interpreting them correctly... Example:

Basically you are saying that you dont care enough about the answer to try and find it.

I hope that's not what I conveyed... I actually tried to get the point across that most people will question their function and purpose in life and generally come to some sort of self created reason that they feel suits them. It's sad when a person goes their whole life without even doing this... Meaning that they went their whole life thinking that it was without purpose or function, that's got to be depressing, and also the reason why most of us will eventually come to some sort of conclusion as to what our purpose should be... To give our life some "meaning".

 

If you put your ego, wishes and hopes aside and see the world from a (close to) unbiased view it will surely scare you, but if its the truth I think its woth it. Now the reason we have a really hard time seeing clearly is not becouse the evidence is ambiguous, but because our minds distort the facts to fit our picture. We see the world the way we wish to see it. So no, I think its better to search for an answer, which I by the way think is already found, than to stay in the dark corners of ignorance. But you are free to disagree, which just means I either havent stated what I mean clearly enough or that I am wrong.

I started seeing a counselor a few years ago because my parents thought that he would be able to help me get my grades up (I didn't do my homework :lol: ), by helping put my life in perspective and get my priorities striaght... He quickly realised that I didn't care where I went in life, and that I was an emotional void... I used pure logic mainly with little to no emotion biasing my opinon on anything. Somehow I managed to think that homework would have no impact on my life by coming to the "logical" conclusion that life had no point... I was ready to die at any day,(Not kill myself, but if someone came up to me with a gun and had it at my forehead I probably wouldn't have made too much of an effort to try and live until tomorrow :D... My parents then asked, "Do you have any idea how much we'll miss you???", or something close. I replied with "Would I care if I'm dead...". Sad, I know.) and I couldn't see myself living past 20, I thought I would be too depressed about life and it's meaninglessness to even bother feeding myself. Logically, I thought that all of our lives were devoid of meaning or purpose... We only live roughly 80 years and then die, we don't get to see if we made any impact on the world, we don't get to enjoy the fruits of our labor, we get nothing... (I can see why most people would become religious if they thought about that :D). My couselor never really accomplished his goal of trying to make me see a purpose or meaning in life... But he did manage to encourage me to see what kind of impact I could make on the world ;). My goals in life are no longer: Prolong existence, try to find meaning in life, fail, die. They are now: Prolong existence, found purpose in my life (Purpose I believe is allowed to change through the generations... A caveman'spurpose was to learn to communicate, 1st-18th century= gather information, 19th century= sort information into seperate branches for efficiency's sake & continue learning, 20th century- continue to seek answers... I believe we're going to be on this one for some time :(.), continue to learn, go to college and major in Physics, get a career in Astro-Physics and help pioneer ground breaking research (Not only in my field but other fields of Physics as well). I guess in an awkward sort of way my counselor did manage to accomplish my parents goal of getting me to do my homework :D. Gotta do homework to pass college and get the career I want ;).

 

I still don't see a meaning to life, but at least now my life is one of purpose ;).

 

Heh, that might do the trick, but I have another solution. The method we have been using until now has not been to search for the answer, but to create the "answer" we wish was the real one. It is often hard to separate between the two because its so well integrated into us, and I think its actually "unhuman" to want the correct answer and not just the one who fits one best. And I am not saying that I am not searching for what I want, but I dont think I am, which is as much certanty that I can get. So basiclly I would say the solution to a lot of questions would be to not fear the results, and to se beyond the patethic wish of our minds to create answers and reality as we see fit.

Trial and error :). We've gotta run out of wrong answers eventually ;).

 

Scientists can't exactly just form an equation that they can derive the purpose, meaning, and function of life from. All answers that have been posed have to have been something that someone else felt was the correct answer, or at least close enough to it and might get us on the right track ;).

 

You can't be completely unbiased in your search for the answer... That would mean you are either using a formula (;)) or are going off of someone elses ideas... Both of which aren't going to get you very far (Your formula may as well be 2+2= meaning of life ;)) so you are going to have to create your own theory, that right there is making your opinion biased. It's biased in the sense that it's your theory that you believe to be correct, regardless of what others think, even if you do present the opportunity for others to disprove or invalidate it. It's impossible to be completely unbiased with yourself ;).

 

 

 

Hmm, I did not know that. How do we know our function is to learn? I have trouble seeing that as anything but a "self given" purpose, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but not our "objectve" function. Second if learning was our function, I dont belive you mean that humans have given themselvs this function. Therefore we must hav gotten it from something before us.

I derived my own purpose in life to create the illusion of meaning in life ;). I'm happier because of it ;).

 

And our chain goes back to the big bang, if it ever was such a thing. Before that, i think, its unknown what existed, but this is my point. We can be traced back as far as the universe excisted, therefore what has given us our function MUST have been either before the existense of the universe AND have created that universe (which seems to invoke a kind of god) or it MUST be outside our dimensions, and independent from our universe. I believe this to be logical necessities.

Actually scientists believe that before the Big Bang there was nothing more than a sub-microscopic ball of gas. In that gas there was supposedly perfect symmetry, all forces were joined as one (Electricity, gravity, strong and weak force... etc.). Eventually the gas started to heat up, as it tends to do in a compressed area ;), and since there was no place to go, it just continued to heat up untill.... BOOM!!! The Universe's largest explosion came from something smaller than a virus ;). God didn't have to exist before or during the Big Bang, science just took it's course and formed life in much the same way it does in a quazar ;).

 

 

 

I see what you mean, but I if you want to prove me wrong, which i dont mind at all, (remember: Seek not to please the ego, but seek progress) I would advice you to tell me why these theories are wrong:

 

- We can not create our own function, that goes against its definition (In this case, the function of our existence).

Then who will? God ;)?

 

- That nothing but the criterias above can give reasons for a "something" that can give us a function (except solution below.*)

Sorry, translation lost something... I can't fully interpret this line, could please try to be more clear :). I think you're saying that based on the above, only God can give us a purpose. If that's the case, then we're just as well off (Probably better ;)) trying to guess our purpose as we are if we waited for God to tell us ;).

 

* I have a third alternative which dosent need a beingcreaturegod to give us purposefunction, and which dosent need something outside of our universe to do so either. This might be the most flawed part of my post but here I go: If the universe has existed for an infinit amount of time and will continue to do so, nothing would come before or after. Therefore it would never exist anything but what has existed (in one form or another) and therefore the only thing which determine our function is what has changed the content of the universe from something else to us. Therefore i present the Laws of Nature as our "God", which has given us our purposefunction. Here comes the difficulty. This could be, as I have seen some other person on this board promoting, complete entropy or heat death (wich seems unlikely because the universe expands faster than it can produce entropy. Could someone give me a reply to this?) or in other cases it might be alot of things. This is where I am not yet very sure. But it concludes with this no matter what: We are not important in ANY way to ANY creature, planet, universe or anything else. We are completly irrelevant and merely a virus with shoes. This is not a good thing and its not a bad thing. This is NOT a reason to kill yourself (even if its irrelevant if you do) but its neither a reason to live. So Huston, we got a problem.

THAT! I like THAT! That's where we agree ;). That's why I wasn't willing to kill myself but didn't care if someone else did it for me. I believe it was stated in "The Matrix" that humans are nothing more than virus... Here's what Agent Smith said: First he speaks about how every mammal on Earth instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. Then he says "But you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague,". I probably would've taken that to heart a lot more deeply if I'd heard it before I developed my own purpose ;).

 

This was my little rant and I hope that somebody got anything useful out of it. You are welcome to tell me where my inconstancys are or where I am mistaken (which I probabley are a lot.) If you have trouble understandig me or is bothered by my grammatical errors, I have but a week exuce; Im fairly young and I come from a non-english speaking country.

Looking forward to responses.

Got one! ;)

 

PS.

 

 

 

I do not want to totally disregard religion because I have no reason to do so BUT I have no reason whatsoever to believe any of it. And based on my experience of reality neither have anyone else. If you also inclued the human psyche to the picture its easy to explain the phenomenon in much esaier ways than its own intended way. I therefore have no reason to take it into account, I can only ignore it. But if it should be true, which would indeed be frightening I think that would pretty much win the case to prove us (humanity) as a fairly well integrated gang of loonies.

 

Edit: Fixed a quote

I'm leaving this for someone else to reply to ;).

[DrProctopus]

Listen up, you silly humanoids...

 

We choose our own purpose. If God had a precise purpose for us, he would tell us. In the absence of any believable messages from God, it is left to us to decide what we do during our lifetimes.

 

So...

 

I have made a very simple choice. I choose to forcibly explore your prostate with my four very large and flexible mechanical arms. When you are screaming in agony, yet strangly enjoying your torment at the same time, I will be satisfied and move on to the next 'client' with glee.

 

Surely this is quite a worthy purpose in life?

 

DrProctopus,

 

The nemesis Spiderman is too embarrassed to talk about

[automatic existence]

Sorry for the long haul before I managed to answer. Im a busy little piggy.

 

Too bad we don't speak the same language... I feel a lot is getting lost in translation. I do feel I essentially believe the same things as you, but I don't think you're interpreting them correctly... Example:

I hope that's not what I conveyed... I actually tried to get the point across that most people will question their function and purpose in life and generally come to some sort of self created reason that they feel suits them. It's sad when a person goes their whole life without even doing this... Meaning that they went their whole life thinking that it was without purpose or function, that's got to be depressing, and also the reason why most of us will eventually come to some sort of conclusion as to what our purpose should be... To give our life some "meaning".

 

Im embarrassed I didnt understand this before. But "lost in translation" is sure a nice and not to harsh way of saying that my English is seriously flawed. And obviously this is causing quite some damage. But when I have trouble expressing myself adequately in my own language its not that strange that the same goes for a foreign one. I agree and now understand that we fundamentaly share views and that they where just superficially different. Thats got to be one of the most flawed parts of all languages; that we have to interpret them, we do not say what we mean, we do not mean what we say. (This is not a attack on you or anyone else but an observation I notice it all the time.) Most people believe 1984 by Geroge Orwell is a dystopia, namely a future society that, to put it short, sucks. I hold a different view. I believe, and its easy to argue for, that its not meant to examplify the futre but that it in most parts simply are a critque of our ways, culture and scociety today. This might seem far-fetched to a lot of people, and well, of course it does, thats what the story tells you. If somone like Winston would say what they mean they would be "killed" which I interpret to mean social suicide. That is the trouble with most people today, thay take absolutley everything at face value. The can not comprehend any symbolism or metaphors, at leas not anyone I know. Only bad books are about the things written in them with letters, the good part is what exist beyond that. And therefore I believe 1984 shold be thoroughly interpreted as our scociety today. Even if this was not the authors intention, its useful, at least for me, to do so. Which brings us to what we have all been waiting for, the point. 1984 looks at language in a beautiful way and concludes that we simply dont have the necessary "equipment" to express ourselvs even if its in our mother tounge. I have a bad habbit with getting into long digressions as you now have noticed.

 

When it comes to what you where saying, the only difference is that I dont discriminate the ones who searches and finds from the ones who dont. I think we`re all equally raped by existence. But of course, then you can discuss which are more equal and the natural response would be; I feel I have though a bit about it and come to the conclusion that there is no, or alt least that, we dont have any purposemeaning yet. Therefore I am superior to all others who still wanders around in ignorance or navie belief. At least this is the view of this little megalomaniac.

 

In a much shorter way: Yes, I agree with you.

 

I started seeing a counselor a few years ago because my parents thought that he would be able to help me get my grades up (I didn't do my homework :shrug: ), by helping put my life in perspective and get my priorities striaght... He quickly realised that I didn't care where I went in life, and that I was an emotional void... I used pure logic mainly with little to no emotion biasing my opinon on anything. Somehow I managed to think that homework would have no impact on my life by coming to the "logical" conclusion that life had no point... I was ready to die at any day,(Not kill myself, but if someone came up to me with a gun and had it at my forehead I probably wouldn't have made too much of an effort to try and live until tomorrow ;)... My parents then asked, "Do you have any idea how much we'll miss you???", or something close. I replied with "Would I care if I'm dead...". Sad, I know.) and I couldn't see myself living past 20, I thought I would be too depressed about life and it's meaninglessness to even bother feeding myself. Logically, I thought that all of our lives were devoid of meaning or purpose... We only live roughly 80 years and then die, we don't get to see if we made any impact on the world, we don't get to enjoy the fruits of our labor, we get nothing... (I can see why most people would become religious if they thought about that ;)). My couselor never really accomplished his goal of trying to make me see a purpose or meaning in life... But he did manage to encourage me to see what kind of impact I could make on the world ;). My goals in life are no longer: Prolong existence, try to find meaning in life, fail, die. They are now: Prolong existence, found purpose in my life (Purpose I believe is allowed to change through the generations... A caveman'spurpose was to learn to communicate, 1st-18th century= gather information, 19th century= sort information into seperate branches for efficiency's sake & continue learning, 20th century- continue to seek answers... I believe we're going to be on this one for some time :eek:.), continue to learn, go to college and major in Physics, get a career in Astro-Physics and help pioneer ground breaking research (Not only in my field but other fields of Physics as well). I guess in an awkward sort of way my counselor did manage to accomplish my parents goal of getting me to do my homework ;). Gotta do homework to pass college and get the career I want ;).

 

I still don't see a meaning to life, but at least now my life is one of purpose :hihi:.

 

I am impressed with the compromise you made. When I see your example, its easy to see how the outcome might as well have been you as a born again christian, the ultimate solution. This is not meant as an offense to religion, but in a psychologial perspective I believe it to be correct. I think we all make this compromise (between one who belives nothing and one who belives everything so to speak) and its almost a matter of "luck" where you end up on the spectrum. Facsinating story, though.

 

Trial and error ;). We've gotta run out of wrong answers eventually ;).

 

Ah, you have made one great fallacy. You presuppose that if we get an answer that is wrong we throw it away. That is not correct, and this is a big problem. We both stick to wrong answers and if we where to throw it away at one time, it is very plausible that we pick it up later. So you see, its and endless circle. Its not trial and error becouse we are not looking for the correct answer, hence its not right and wrong its useful and not useful.

 

Scientists can't exactly just form an equation that they can derive the purpose, meaning, and function of life from. All answers that have been posed have to have been something that someone else felt was the correct answer, or at least close enough to it and might get us on the right track :hihi:.

 

Youre right, they cant. But since we have agreed that purposes and meaning is necessary illusions that we all have, we can only manage to make those up ourselvs. What science can do, i believe, is to give us the correct answer and not just a useful one. It can form a equationtherory that tells us why where here, how we got here and "everything" else. This will of course not be in the line of "help thy neighbour" but more like "reproduce and die". So no, only us humans are great enough to create our own distortions of reality.

 

I derived my own purpose in life to create the illusion of meaning in life :eek:. I'm happier because of it :lol:.

 

Honesty about ones own needs are so rare that I am shocked whenever I see it. It is quite an accomplisment just to realise what you have and accept it. It means you are both aware and that you get a lot of benefits from it. Perfect.

 

Actually scientists believe that before the Big Bang there was nothing more than a sub-microscopic ball of gas. In that gas there was supposedly perfect symmetry, all forces were joined as one (Electricity, gravity, strong and weak force... etc.). Eventually the gas started to heat up, as it tends to do in a compressed area :eek:, and since there was no place to go, it just continued to heat up untill.... BOOM!!! The Universe's largest explosion came from something smaller than a virus ;). God didn't have to exist before or during the Big Bang, science just took it's course and formed life in much the same way it does in a quazar :eek:.

 

Informative. You mean the big ball of the to elements hydrogen and carbon(?), well it dosent relly matter, but its "easy" to trace humans back to your ball of gas. But again what was before what you just mentioned, something different or eternity?

 

Sorry, translation lost something... I can't fully interpret this line, could please try to be more clear ;). I think you're saying that based on the above, only God can give us a purpose. If that's the case, then we're just as well off (Probably better ;)) trying to guess our purpose as we are if we waited for God to tell us :eek:.

 

Well basically I meant that there where other (unlikely) possibilities but that most people wolud consider the one marked with * the clearly best one.

 

---------

 

There is no doubt we are 'comfort' driven but that most everyone is like that, makes me think it is a normal human condition - no sane person intentionally looks for hardship. If people find some 'healthy' purpose in life and they feel fulfilled, that is a great accomplishment.

 

This has to be close to my definiton of a beautful reply. It does something as rare as showing me the obvious (which is hard to discover), draws the conclusions and seems correct. But I feel the last part is missing. The conclusions are only seen in the human perspective. The last sentence is one of the most chilling i have read in a long, long time, basically beacause its true. That last sentence must be one of the singular best argument for why "man is something to be overcome."

 

 

Interesting discussion. Hope I`ve managed to express my self a little more clearly.

[automatic existence]

I can see your point, but I presume we disagree on the premises. Why should happiness be sought? Why is hapiness and joy better than pain and sorrow? This might not be liked by everyone but right now I belive these things can be compared to Ivan Pavlovs famous experiment with the dog which, after a while, driveled everytime he heard the bell that he always heard right before he got fed. Therefore he connected the bell with food ergo if he drivels because of the food, he does the same with the bell because he thinks the bell means foodtime. Our feelings keep us away from "bad" things and make us like "good" things. When we do something "good" we get happy and the other way around. Of course this has its faults like when you panic, get paranoia or social phobia, these are exaggerations of normal feelings and emotions.

 

The main problem is what decides whats good and whats bad. So the only thing which decides this is our goals. Everything that helps us achive this goals are good and everything that dont is bad. The beauty is that its so easy and not to mention provable. There are two goals for a human being, only two, everything else are means to these goals: Reproduction and survival. Sounds pretty primitive, huh? And strangley enough we dont like to be called primitive so what do we do? Well, we pretend that we arent, that we have lots of fine goals and lots of good and altruistic sides. Its all fine and dandy but its a downright lie. So we have two options; the primitve or the primitive liar. (Obs. this is oversimplified, but the point remains)

 

I do not mean to say that humans are exactly the same sa the dog but what I think is that trough evolution (or whatvever you believe happened) man has changed, of that I believe theres no controversy. He has always had the need to survive and reproduce therefore appriciated things that made him survive and reproduce. Feelings are nothing but very advanced survival mechanisms, wich I believe its time to leave behind. Its time to move on to new terrain.

 

Now, many will not wish to believe this, even without considering the evidence and therefore its no point for me try and prove it. All I say is that if you do not want to believe it, theres nothing to be done, for anybody else all that is needed is to check up on just about anybody or anything written in affective neuroscience which deals with emotions and feelings in a way.

 

When I furst encounted this theory I was fairly shocked, but I always try not to let such things as fear decide what to believe and what not to believe. Im breaking up with my emotions. Im turning off the autopilot and regaining the control. Of course its more difficult to drive by yourself, but I believe it to be the only way to achive anything at all and get beyond the feeling of hapiness as drug induced by some 500 million year old survivel kit.

 

I think of it as being a child, then you have little control over yourself and your wishes need to be fullfilled or else you`ll cry. You need imidiate stimmulation. But then you get older and finaly get a grip on yourself, now you are in control. I believe most people are only little kids in a way, having no control over feelings or needs. It is noting explictly wrong with this, but I have never liked to know that I am only the great Sisyphus.

 

I am fresh with the topics, so I am only happy to get any positve or negative feedback.

[Boerseun]

Can't find fault with that, Automatic!

[automatic existence]

Yes. I have been waiting for your reply. Was it not you who argued that the universe would be safely guided by the second law of thermodynamics to the fairly neutral state of maximum entropy, namley heath death? How would you explain the expansion of the universe which surley must create much more possible entropy than the speed which actual entropy is created? It might be many more circumstanses that has to be brought in ie. gravity and quantums but I am not very familiar with this and was really just curious.

 

PS. This might be a little OT but in my opinon so where the 26 first pages of this thread, so I hope Im excused.

[automatic existence]

No, point in writing a long answer and debunk what you just said. I must say you have a rather wide horizion while still being a rather religious person which I admire a lot. Basically I belive we both got close to the same "facts" but draw wholly different conclusions. Im not going to start a crusade to turn you over to "my side" which is rather impossible if you dont want to. I think you have gotten my view by my presentation and I have learned from yours, especially your "first" post.

 

Just to clarify what I meant by the statement that there is no more point in seeking happiness than sorrow I was just implying that it dosent really make anymore sense to seek the one than the other. But of course we have the biological tendencys to seek pleasure, that makes it human yes, but not logical or "objectivley" correct.

 

Even if it was by no means your intention, you have actually given me the last push to overcome myself, which might sound naive and pretentious but still, I have a firm belief that it is possible. Ûbermensch, here I come :hihi:

 

At the end

 

Again, most people are just trying to survive - if they are happy, why burst their bubble?[/Quote]

 

Do you actually mean this. That we should not help Sisyphus, but let the poor guy continue in all his tradgedy. This, this is to me nothing but pure inhumanity. But then agian that is contradictory.

[automatic existence]

Now we stretch the metaphor a bit far, but i presume you are alluding to me. Well, the best reason, I guess, is that I dont have one single reason to do so. Except that I might be happier, which I doubt, by disregarding (my) reality and just take the leap into the usual fantasy world of this planets population. Its simply against my principles!

[Dark Mind]

:) :hihi: :D ;) ;) ;) :lol: ;) ;) :evil: :D ;) :D :D ;) :) :D ;) ;) ;)

:D :) ;) :D :) ;) ;) :D

All the text was deleted... Now that's a lot of smileys for one post :D.

[infamous]

Believing in determinism as I do, the purpose of our life will develop and finally be revealed to us just before or passing. Remember the old saying: Hind sight is 20/20.

 

 

For what can a man learn,

from a life pure and fit?

The fullness is revealed,

in the dying of it.

 

 

When my time comes, my goal and purpose should be to look back in fond remembrance, and not in shame.

[Dark Mind]

That should be a goal for all of us :hihi:. I'm not sure how well that fits for purpose though... :hihi:

 

Purpose seems more like a "during" life thing, not an "end of" life thing for me.

 

PS

Did you mean "Hind sight..."

[infamous]

That should be a goal for all of us :hihi:. I'm not sure how well that fits for purpose though... :hihi:

 

Purpose seems more like a "during" life thing, not an "end of" life thing for me.

Yes I can understand why someone your age would feel that way Dark, it isn't until you can see the end coming that one really begins to ask themselves what it was all about. I'm sure you've been concerned about your purpose Dark, and I know your a serious enough person to not want to make mistakes. The truth is, sometimes we don't recognize the mistakes until they are very distant in our past.

 

PS

Did you mean "Hind sight..."

Yes I did young man, I'm getting careless again. Thanks.....I made the correction.

[Dark Mind]

Yes I can understand why someone your age would feel that way Dark, it isn't until you can see the end coming that one really begins to ask themselves what it was all about. I'm sure you've been concerned about your purpose Dark, and I know your a serious enough person to not want to make mistakes. The truth is, sometimes we don't recognize the mistakes until they are very distant in our past...

Yeah... Too bad foresight is nearly non-existent :hihi:.

[BEAKER]

Yeah... Too bad foresight is nearly non-existent :hihi:.

That depends on your veiw about the grand scheme of things. It comes down to faith once again.