Asperger's Syndrome

[Michaelangelica]

I have a friend with a mildly "Asperger's" child.

He is bright but drives everyone mad by talking incessantly about one topic or another that has caught his interest.

 

My friend said something the other day which made me think.

She said all males have some degree of Asperger's Syndrome

TEST yourself

There should be quite a few on a forum such as this

Wired 9.12: Take The AQ Test

The test is not a means for making a diagnosis, however, and many who score above 32 and even meet the diagnostic criteria for mild autism or Asperger's ...

Wired 9.12: Take The AQ Test - 61k - Cached - Similar pages

OKCupid! The Asperger's Syndrome Test

OKCupid! The Asperger's Syndrome Test The Asperger's Syndrome Test powered by OkCupid - Free Online Dating. ...

OKCupid! The Asperger's Syndrome Test - 31k - 18 Feb 2007 - Cached - Similar pages

The Geek Syndrome The Aspergers Syndrome Test

The Online Aspergers Syndrome Test. ... Please try our aspergers test, 90% people with aspergers who take the quiz get a score of 25 or higher. ...

The Geek Syndrome The Aspergers Syndrome Test - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Smart Software: Asperger Syndrome

When I read Wesner Moise's post on Asperger's Syndrome, I wasn't surprised. ... I took a test online for AS in The Wire magazine, and I scored 31. ...

wesnerm.blogs.com/net_undocumented/2003/09/asperger_syndro.html - 108k - Cached - Similar pages.

 

I was surprised at this comment but have been wondering if it is in fact true. That obsessive, totally focused, intensity that some scientists and males get to their pet idea, hobby or subject.

Their poor social skills vis a vis females.

Their obsessiveness in certain things and not in others.

Their poor verbal/social skills.

I have certainly seen a few on forums on the web!

 

Apparently Silicon Valley schools are full of Asperger's Syndrome Kids creating chaos for teachers and a mine of information for Psychology researchers.

 

What do you think?

(We need some female voices here!)

 

ndividuals with AS can exhibit a variety of characteristics and the disorder can range from mild to severe. Persons with AS show marked deficiencies in social skills, have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular subject of interest. They have a great deal of difficulty reading nonverbal cues (body language) and very often the individual with AS has difficulty determining proper body space. Often overly sensitive to sounds, tastes, smells, and sights, . . .

By definition, those with AS have a normal IQ and many individuals (although not all), exhibit exceptional skill or talent in a specific area.

Because of their high degree of functionality and their naiveté, those with AS are often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing and bullying.

While language development seems, on the surface, normal, individuals with AS often have deficits in pragmatics and prosody. Vocabularies may be extraordinarily rich and some children sound like "little professors."

However, persons with AS can be extremely literal and have difficulty using language in a social context.

Asperger Syndrome: What Is It?

 

Some characteristics of Asperger syndrome

People with Asperger syndrome may display some of the following characteristics:

 

* Difficulty in forming friendships.

* A preference for playing alone or with older children and adults.

* Ability to talk well, either too much or too little, but difficulty with communication.

* Inability to understand that communication involves listening as well as talking.

* A very literal understanding of what has been said. For example, when asked to 'get lost', as in go away, a person with Asperger syndrome will be confused and may literally try to 'get lost'.

* Inability to understand the rules of social behaviour, the feelings of others and to 'read' body language.

For example, a person with Asperger syndrome may not know that someone is showing that they are cross when frowning.

* Behaviour varies from mildly unusual to quite aggressive and difficult.

* Having rules and rituals that they insist all family members follow.

* Anger and aggression when things do not happen as they want.

* Sensitivity to criticism.

* A narrow field of interests. For example a person with Asperger syndrome may focus on learning all there is to know about cars, trains or computers.

* Eccentricity.

http://www.disability.vic.gov.au/dsonline/dsarticles.nsf/pages/Asperger's_syndrome?OpenDocument

[maikeru]

I know a fellow with Asperger's syndrome. He displays some of the characteristics mentioned here such as an inability to read facial expressions and body language, has problems interpreting similes and metaphors (that literal interpretation of language mentioned among the signs; and a problem for me, because I like to pepper similes and metaphors in my speech), shows a broad and sophisticated vocabulary so that he sounds like a professor (but lacks the fluidity that most people can command), has amazingly detailed, fact- and number-based memory for what he reads, etc.

 

I feel sorry for him, because in some ways, I only know a little of what that's like. It seems that there is no limit to his obsessions with certain subjects such as GK Chesterton, distributism, conspiracies about medicine and healthcare, etc. This seems to be another trait associated with Asperger's. He's obviously bright, but it makes it very hard for me to relate to him when he can only talk at length, and to a horrifying extreme, about these--and only these--subjects. He also seems to have a hard time drawing conclusions from evidence and ideas, as if he can't see similarities, differences, or resemblances between things. It's more like he "catalogs" them in his mind and speaks about them in that way. From what I can tell, it seems that some with Asperger's display "super intelligence" in their interests or obsessions.

 

I can only imagine that having a child with Asperger's would be very, very hard.

 

I've heard that men involved in science and technology may have higher-than-average levels of autism and Asperger's or traits from these conditions. Is this true?

[Michaelangelica]

Another test

 

See how you rate

 

Aspie-quiz

[Fatstep]

She's wrong;

 

Agree: 2,12,20,21: 1 point

Disagree: 1,14,27,29,30,40,49,50: 1 point

Score: 12

[HydrogenBond]

I don't understand why human diversity that departs from a social expectation is considered a syndrome. The child that was mentioned can be improved if he is made to hang with a group of boys of various diversities. He will get on their nerves and they will teach him to be a little more aware of social cues. A few wedgies or an angry response from boys with less tolerance than his parents, will teach him to be more aware of body language. It will also teach him to share the limelight. It is sort of like a knerd joining a fraternity. They will stress him but also teach him to become more like a man.

 

I remember having a roommate who had compulsive cleaning disorder that he got from his ultra clean mother. I didn't care if he wanted to wash the kitchen floor after every meal. To each his own. But eventually he got angry at me for not chipping in (up to his Mr Clean standards). I was a college dude who had better things to do. I told Mr Clean those standards were his problem and not mine. At that time, I preferred to take dirty dishes out of the sink and wash them in water when I needed something. But a perpetual dirty sink would kill him, forcing him to clean everything for both of us. Eventually the pressure and extra work to satisfy his obsession got to him and he learned to give up. In a few months he could make a mess and leave it to the next day. He was much happier after that and much less b@tchy.

 

The point was that that if one caters to obsession, one will nurture it and help make it stick. If you oppose it, you can break it. A group of boys have no cooth or censor and will break the obsession out of sport. He will not like it at first but will be much happier in the end.

[Fatstep]

The child that was mentioned can be improved if he is made to hang with a group of boys of various diversities. He will get on their nerves and they will teach him to be a little more aware of social cues. A few wedgies or an angry response from boys with less tolerance than his parents, will teach him to be more aware of body language.

 

That is a logical hypothesis, but in fact it is not the truth.

 

They do not know how to learn about social activities, I know first hand, they cannot make friends easily and are often intolerant of immature behavior. Even when you are nice and try to help someone with Asperger's they often seclude themselves, and they cannot tell when something is not appropriate for a school setting.

[CraigD]

I don't understand why human diversity that departs from a social expectation is considered a syndrome.

Difference from the norm doesn’t constitute a syndrome. A syndrome is a collection of features (symptoms, traits, etc) that appear to occur together in many patients. When an underlying cause(s) – the pathology - of these “together occurring” features is explained in anatomical and physiological terms to the reasonable satisfaction of the medical community, the term syndrome is usually discarded in favor of the term disease.

 

Autism (which one might also call “Kanner’s syndrome”) and Asperger’s syndrome fit the definition of a syndrome – in the estimation of most people, the same syndrome, differing only in that Asperger’s study focused on fairly high-function patients, while Kanner studied a wider sample of children. Although both did their initial work and publications in the 1930s-40s, Asperger was in Germany, Kanner the US, so, due to a lack of communication between the countries due to WW II, they appear to have worked independently, not even aware of one another. Also due to differences in circumstances, and Asperger’s failure to publish a catchy name for syndrome (“little professor”-ism was his catchiest), Kanner’s work dominated the attention of the medical and education community, being well known by most professionals by the early 1950s, while, until the late 1990s, many remained unfamiliar with the term “Asperger’s syndrome”.

The child that was mentioned can be improved if he is made to hang with a group of boys of various diversities. He will get on their nerves and they will teach him to be a little more aware of social cues. A few wedgies or an angry response from boys with less tolerance than his parents, will teach him to be more aware of body language

That is a logical hypothesis, but in fact it is not the truth.

 

They do not know how to learn about social activities, I know first hand, they cannot make friends easily and are often intolerant of immature behavior. Even when you are nice and try to help someone with Asperger's they often seclude themselves, and they cannot tell when something is not appropriate for a school setting.

From my acquaintance with the literature, and second-hand experience in an school setting (My wife is a former, my son and several friends current instructor in a public school that specializes in teaching autistic children between the ages of 5 and 10), I believe HBond’s claim is incorrect, Fatstep’s description and explanation correct.

 

Because Autism is still a syndrome as opposed to a well-defined disease, a lot of medical research, both human and animal, is ongoing in an effort to gain a sound physical explanation of it. Some promising early data and theories have emerged. My favorite is based on necroscopic (lamentably, many severe autistics have other disorders, so their childhood death rate is many time higher than normal. In addition to the many other challenges, the emotional stress of teachers of autistic children when children in their classes become ill and die is an additional hardship of the profession) studies showing that, in the brains of autistic children, the ratio of long, “white” neural cells to short “grey” structural support cells (normally about 1:10) is higher than in normal children of the same age.

 

Although teachers and typically not conversant in medical research, One way that information about this research can be useful to them is that it allows them to reassure parents and caregivers that their child’s autism is the result of physical abnormalities, not failure on their part to properly feed or socialize the children. Many parents of autistics suffer strong feels of guilt that had they somehow been a better parent, their child would not have developed the condition. Being able to truthfully inform parents that the current best medical and scientific research indicates this is not the case can be of great comfort to them.

[Pyrotex]

I took the Wired AQ and:

Agree: 4,6,13,18,19,39,45,46: 1 point

Disagree: 1,17,27,31,32,38: 1 point

Score: 14

 

That puts me solidly in the camp of the "control group". And yet I worry about my social faux-pas, my tendency to dominate conversations, to talk too long and in too much detail, my inability to pick up on hints, especially from women. Oy vey! Maybe I have Virtual Asperger's Syndrome -- the obsession that I may have AS even when the tests say that I don't!!!

[Michaelangelica]

I took the Wired AQ and:

Agree: 4,6,13,18,19,39,45,46: 1 point

Disagree: 1,17,27,31,32,38: 1 point

Score: 14

 

That puts me solidly in the camp of the "control group". And yet I worry about my social faux-pas, my tendency to dominate conversations, to talk too long and in too much detail, my inability to pick up on hints, especially from women. Oy vey! Maybe I have Virtual Asperger's Syndrome -- the obsession that I may have AS even when the tests say that I don't!!!

 

You pick up on nuances on the hypography forum only too well!:hihi:

 

We can all be trained to pick up non-verbal messages better. There are some beaut books about on Body language.

Often Asperger's kids won't look you in the eye.

(I find it very annoying talking to someone with a nose ring. I keep looking at the ring and not their eyes and find it much harder to communicate.)

 

Often Asperger's people/kids start talking and won't stop until they have finished what they want to say; regarless of whether it is relevant or not. Conversations tend to be very one-way with most, but not all, people.

Asperger's seems to run a bit in families, so is this genetic or learned behaviour? I suspect genetic but modified & changed (improved or worsened) by the family & social environment.

 

I do think many of my male friends become obsessed with a pet project, idea or career often to the exclusion of much else in their lives. (Perhaps sometimes to the great advancement of science?).

Is this Asperger's type behavior?

I am told Silicon Valley in Ca is full of Autistic/asperger's kids in the schools; born from computer-geek dads & mums !

 

 

 

I didn't know about the brain cell differences or mortality in Autism Craig.

Are there similar studies on the brain/genetics of Asperger's syndrome?

[Monomer]

Here's my results from the Wired AQ test:

 

Agree: 2,4,5,6,9,12,13,16,19,23,26,41,43,46: 1 point

Disagree: 1,15,17,24,25,28,29,30,34,38,44,47,49: 1 point

Score: 27

 

Disturbingly high! I've got good social skills and I can definitely pick up on the non-verbal cues, but it's just that I don't like being in social situations.

 

 

Some info on mortality in autism:

 

Increased mortality is seen in autism, with a risk that increases with age, and it is observed to be an even greater problem with females with the disorder. The increased mortality may be due to associations with severe mental retardation and other medical conditions, such as epilepsy. Mental retardation is present in 75% of affected individuals. Depending on the population studied, epilepsy develops in 4-42% of affected individuals, with some of the increased rates due to associated mental retardation. The course of illness is often unpredictable. A gradual clearing of some of the symptoms can occur in adulthood but with the persistence of residual deficits. An intellectual decline can occur during adolescence. Depending on severity, 2-17% of patients may achieve a nonretarded level of cognitive and adaptive functioning. Marriage is rare, but as they mature, adult patients may have greater success in achieving employment and developing the capacity for independent residence

 

Found at eMedicine - Autistic Spectrum Disorders : Article by Robert J Hilt, MD, FAAP

 

 

Brain structure of Asperger's:

 

Examination of the brain structure of individuals with ASD is a growing area of study. Recent articles included controlled studies comparing the brain structure of adults with Asperger syndrome with that of normal adults. Structural differences have been found between these two groups in the fronto-striatal and cerebellar regions, with individuals with Asperger syndrome having less gray matter than controls. Differences in prefrontal lobe metabolite levels have also been found between adults with Asperger syndrome and controls, with adults with the syndrome having higher concentrations of certain metabolites. Functional imaging research has shown less activation of certain areas of the brain (e.g. medial prefrontal cortex, temporal poles and superior temporal sulcus) for adults with Asperger syndrome or HFA when engaged in mentalizing tasks. Finally, post-mortem brain analyses of adults with Asperger syndrome have indicated abnormalities in the minicolumnar organization of some areas of the right hemisphere

 

(Info from Medscape Today, but couldn't get the link to work)

 

 

It seems that there is a genetic component to Asperger's Syndrome:

Asperger Syndrome Fact Sheet: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)

TIME Magazine: The Secrets of Autism

The second link mentions that perhaps it's not just genetics that's responsible, but maybe also prenatal positioning in the womb, trauma experienced at birth or random variation in the process of brain development.

[paigetheoracle]

Sadly, I think that I have Aspergers tendencies, if not the whole thing as I got my twenty year spate of migraines through sheer anger at getting interrupted at a task I was fixated on (Still am).

[Pyrotex]

Another test

 

See how you rate

 

Aspie-quiz

 

Aspie/N-Typ

59/163 out of 200

 

I am very likely Neuro-Typical

[Essay]

Ha! You bunch of wimps. :(

I'm a 35.

Beat that!

 

[paigetheoracle]

I've noticed that there is a causal chain with my migraines (Panic attack, temper tantrum, chemical/ hormonal imbalance, migraine attack). As I probably have Aspergers Syndrome (at least in my estimation and from most tests results I've completed on the subject), do the two go together as I know the first two items in my Migraine chain are common to the autistic?

 

By the way, the task that I'm fixated on as mentioned in previous post on this thread, is a series of books teaching English. Tell me if I'm wrong but the reason the idea isn't selling is because of the Geeky angle it's coming from because of my condition? (Preview samples of Logic Lists English by Tony Sandy at Lulu.com, under Education and Language section in 'Buy' area). It looks like it's been written by a computer and the only honest comment I've had so far is that it is "Just rows of words". Anyway see what you think - is this Aspie Typical rather than Neuro Typical (Term used by Aspergers to distinguish them from ordinary human beings).

 

It also seems what is diagnosed as hyperlexic in America (fascinated with words) and this not only explains why I can't let go of language as a subject but the format of the books (I was told on one of the Hyperlexic sites I visited that Dyslexia is the polar opposite of the former condition, so I thought that would lead to progress in promotion of my books - you guessed it, still nil sales!).

[Michaelangelica]

I've noticed that there is a causal chain with my migraines (Panic attack, temper tantrum, chemical/ hormonal imbalance, migraine attack). As I probably have Aspergers Syndrome (at least in my estimation and from most tests results I've completed on the subject), do the two go together as I know the first two items in my Migraine chain are common to the autistic?

 

By the way, the task that I'm fixated on as mentioned in previous post on this thread, is a series of books teaching English. Tell me if I'm wrong but the reason the idea isn't selling is because of the Geeky angle it's coming from because of my condition? (Preview samples of Logic Lists English by Tony Sandy at Lulu.com, under Education and Language section in 'Buy' area). It looks like it's been written by a computer and the only honest comment I've had so far is that it is "Just rows of words". Anyway see what you think - is this Aspie Typical rather than Neuro Typical (Term used by Aspergers to distinguish them from ordinary human beings).

 

It also seems what is diagnosed as hyperlexic in America (fascinated with words) and this not only explains why I can't let go of language as a subject but the format of the books (I was told on one of the Hyperlexic sites I visited that Dyslexia is the polar opposite of the former condition, so I thought that would lead to progress in promotion of my books - you guessed it, still nil sales!).

1 migraines

are fascinating. A lot of highly intelligent, creative people have them. I have "painless migraines" took 50 years to diagnose that.

Sacks has written a book about it. He too has migraine problems.

 

To answer the question "?" who knows??

 

Please see also my discussion on feverfew 9somewhere here) a herb that contains some "aspirin" type compounds which suggests a link between gut and brain

 

2.I think you would expect some Asperger's type personalities her on hypography.

Is that the case with all science?

 

3 Asperger's seems more prevalent in males (?) Why?

Evolutionarily what are the ++'s ?

An ability to focus on the kill??

[freeztar]

Aspie/N-Typ

59/163 out of 200

 

I am very likely Neuro-Typical

 

I just took it and got 121/94 out of 200 (ea.).

Quite high...

[Essay]

Cool, Freeztar....

...

...

Please see also my discussion on feverfew 9somewhere here) a herb that contains some "aspirin" type compounds which suggests a link between gut and brain

 

2.I think you would expect some Asperger's type personalities her on hypography.

Is that the case with all science?

 

3 Asperger's seems more prevalent in males (?) Why?

Evolutionarily what are the ++'s ?

An ability to focus on the kill??

#2. Yes, I think so. Both for science research, and for the science fora. I think both scientist and writer are "job types" suggested as appropriate or typical of Aspies.

 

#3. I haven't thought about the gender differences, but in general I've been wondering if there might naturally be different brain types (based on one or more parameters); types which easily could be just opposite ends of a spectrum.

Perhaps....

Observers/Thinkers vs. Actors/Doers

 

In terms of evolution (as you mention- hunting, etc.); by living as a "domesticated" species these days, as well as the tremendous heterogeneous, inter-regional, genetic exchange over the past few hundred years (5-10 generations); I'd think humanity could be experiencing a small burst of diversity in brain evolution.

...especially given epigenetic considerations!

:)

 

....also re: "....which suggests a link between gut and brain."

Have you heard of the wheat/wheat gluten & Autism/Asp. connection?

ANDI | Autism Network for Dietary Intervention | Home of ANDI Bars

...

 

Celiac Disease & Kids by Danna Korn

We also welcome friends and family of kids who are on the gluten-free/casein-free diet as part of a dietary intervention protocol for autism, Asperger's Syndrome, ADD and ADHD.

 

....also see: "The Second Brain" Dr. Michael Gershon

Psychology Today: Our Second Brain: The Stomach

...or at Amazon.com

 

...and epigenetics lends so much more potential to these tangentially related topics.