Genarlow Wilson get 10 year for BJ

[Cedars]

No kiddin'. Kinda uppity for standing on principle when the prosecutor was kind enough to allow him to merely register as sex offender for life and serve two to five.

 

"Oh you don't want to confess eh? Well then you must have done something EVEN WORSE!"

The girl came to the party with an overnight bag for heavens sake. If that doesn't show some intent on her part I am not sure what does.

Afterwards, both the girl and the guy indicated it was consentual, no one was forced and they didn't want any charges filed.

When you didn't do anything wrong, it is really tough to take a plea which will result in:

Not being able to make any legal appeals.

Being labeled as a sexual predator for the rest of your life.

 

No one has to assume anything worse thanks to the video tape. Genarlow Wilson IS a sex offender (along with the other 5 who pled guilty). What exactly are these principals Wilson is standing up for? His entitlement to a blow job? His right to be a porn star? His "she was asking for it by being there too drunk" principals?

 

Georgia made the decision that 15 year olds cant be engaging in oral sex. Georgia decided that 16 year olds can. Such is life. I can follow those rules. I did follow those rules. I bet you can/did also. Those laws werent made for the people who can follow them, they are made for the people who wont. Like Genarlow Wilson.

 

This particular case does nothing to change my mind on personal conduct, whether kids should be allowed to make these kinds of choices, whether the state has a compelling interest in enforcing laws against such behaviors or the penalties involved when someone violates these laws. If anything it re-enforces the need for them. I am glad the only momento of this 'party' these guys has left is their mug shots. I dont think Georgia, or the USA needs another football player that cant control his urges.

 

Yes a jury decided it wasnt rape. So what? A jury decided OJ didnt murder Nicole Simpson. I still think he did it. That aside...

 

If it was my 17 year old daughter who got herself so drunk she was laying on a bathroom floor while a party went on around her, I would want the law to consider her too drunk to consent to sex, which is why rape charges were filed. Georgia has a law like that. Minnesota has a law just like that and to the best of my knowledge it is still on the books (and IIRC it applies to legal adults too). So if your 25 years old taking home that "too drunk to drive" 21 year old celebrating her birthday, you best get it in writing that she consents.

 

If it was my 15 year old kid passing out bj's and posing for the camera I would want the law on my side, not the 15 year olds. There is no way even to this day with my kid being a legal adult that I would agree that at 15 she should have been allowed to pass out group blow jobs. And I sure dont want my kid standing there telling me it Aint Against The Law.

 

These people werent even dating each other in real life. The fact is the girls were in one room the boys in another. That is how they divided up the rooms themselves. If anything that indictes to me there was no intent for sex.

 

Taking a plea deal that labels you as a sex offender is the breaks when you engage in such acts. He (and the other 5) did what they were accused of. We're not dealing with someone wrongfully convicted here. Genarlow Wilson is no innocent.

 

As a side note, I am kinda disapointed that the title "Romeo and Juliet Law" has been applied to the change in this law. There is no comparison to the story of Romeo and Juliet with this legislation. A more appropriate title should have been "Lowering the Libido Litmus Act of 2006" Or maybe "the Cant Control Your Urges Legislation", or how about "Masturbation is not Good Enough for Our Kids Ammendment". :)

 

OK I am done (again) with this thread. I have butterflies, dragonflies, and flowers to ID.

[InfiniteNow]

No one has to assume anything worse thanks to the video tape. Genarlow Wilson IS a sex offender (along with the other 5 who pled guilty).

<...>

Taking a plea deal that labels you as a sex offender is the breaks when you engage in such acts. He (and the other 5) did what they were accused of.

 

Kinda makes me think that I was holding too harsh a view of those registered as sex offenders. Considering the above, I suppose they're not all such a bad bunch after all. I'm no longer quite as scared to have one living on my street considering the ridiculousness that can force them to have to register.

[TheFaithfulStone]

OK I am done (again) with this thread.

 

So does that mean I win?

 

I think you just have to agree to disagree on this one Cedar.

 

TFS

[freeztar]

Good point InfiniteNow. It definitely waters down the impression.

 

I just found this article which brought up some interesting points not yet brought up in this thread.

Had Wilson and the 15 year old had sexual intercourse, his maximum sentence -- according to a Georgia Supreme Court ruling in the Marcus Dixon case -- would have been one year. That case, of course, made its way to Oprah. Wilson has Mark Cuban.

 

But wait. It gets worse. At the same time that Wilson was being sentenced to 10 years in prison, down the hall in the courthouse, a 27-year-old high school teacher got a slap on the wrist (probation, 90 days in jail, not prison) for having sexual intercourse with an 16-year-old male student.

 

Now you tell me: which act represented a greater breach of trust and societal expectations? Which act has the greater potential for harm?

 

Backstory

The District Attorney -- who makes the decision on how to handle cases: which ones to prosecute, which to drop -- charged Wilson with rape and aggravated child molestation. The jury found Wilson not guilty of the rape charge.

 

According to the jury forewoman, the jury did not know that by convicting Wilson of the aggravated child molestation charge that they had just sentenced him to a mandatory 10 years in prison. “People were screaming, crying, beating against the walls,” she recalls. “I just went limp. They had to help me to a chair.”

 

Yet right down the hall, Alexander High School English teacher Kari McCarley was standing trial for "carrying on a sexual relationship with a 16-year-old male student." She was married, with children. This wasn't a one-time sexual encounter. Her sentence? Three years probation and 90 days in jail.

 

Like the judge in that case, most of the posters at Free Republic thought her crime was no big deal.

 

District Attorney David McDade: "We suggested prison time, but the judge imposed a sentence that he felt was right. She [McCarley] was not having sex with a student directly under her supervision."

 

See, with sexual intercourse, the judge has discretion. With aggravated child molestation, the legislature set the minimum at 10 years. Nevermind that the intent of the legislation was to prosecute adults preying on pre-adolescent children, not two teens where the younger teen initiated the sexual contact.

[TheBigDog]

What happened at that party is deplorable, and considering it to have been some hormonal fantasy land is disturbing. Why didn't any of the kids at this party have the sense to step in and stop this from happening. Have we reached the point that teens fooling around in private is equal to teens having a drunken orgy and filming it for posterity?

 

I was horny when I was 15, 16, 17, and although I never had the opportunity to test my resolve to avoid the behavior that these teens engaged in you can bet your bottom dollar that I would have recognized right from wrong, regardless of the law, and stepped up to prevent harm to my friends by stopping them from engaging in such blatant stupidity.

 

I give you the theme song of moral destruction...

Go on and do it

Do it, do it 'til you're satisfied

(Whatever it is)

 

Do it, do it 'til you're satisfied

Go on and do it

Do it, do it 'til you're satisfied

(Whatever it is)

Do it, do it 'til you're satisfied

 

People know just what they'd like to do

Whatever it is you got it as long it pleases you

Make it last as long as you can

When your through it's up to you to try it again

 

chorus

 

Everybody knows what they'd like to do

Whatever it is, do it, as long as it pleases you

Just take some time and relax your mind

Then do it, do it, do it 'till you're satisfied

 

chorus

 

Then you hawler oh, oh-ho, oh-ho, oh

I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied

Then you hawler oh, wooo-hooooo, hoooo-ooooo

 

Woooooo

chorus

 

Do it, do it 'til you're satisfied

(Whatever it is)

Got to do it

Do it, do it 'til you're satisfied

Go on and do it, girl

(Do it slow)

Got to do it

(Whatever it is)

Got to do it good

(Just do it some more)

Do it until you're satisfied

I'm satisfied

I'm satisfied

I'm satisfied

I'm satisfied

I'm satisfied

I'm satisfied

I'm satisfied

Go on and do it, ya

Don't anyone go crazy about how I am pointing out cause and effect with the song; I am not. I am talking about the loss of boundaries, the loss of propriety, and the loss of shame, all in the name of progress. Raise your hand if you are happy with teen gang-bangs of passed-out-drunken-under-aged girls on video tape!

 

Even if you disagree with the penalty, how can you defend the actions?

 

Bill

[CraigD]

Even if you disagree with the penalty, how can you defend the actions?

I could defend the action as having done nothing that those present didn’t want to do, rejecting the idea that a 15 or 17-year old boy or girl has no right to decide to join an orgy, and accepting the principle of moral relativity – that neither you, I, or any other person is empowered to pass judgment or met out punishment for actions that do not injure us, of which, were it not for the actions of police and prosecutors, we would not even know.

 

I will not make this argument, however, because it does not accurately describe the event in question. If it did, it’s unlikely that the police would have been made aware of it. Rather, the 17-year old girl left distraught and informed her parents that she had been raped, triggering the chain of events that lead to Wilson and other’s legal woes. Although her claim does not appear, and was not found by the court, to be true, her distress appears genuine – although it appears no one intended it, she was, nonphysically, injured. I agree with TBD that, had he, or another person with better judgment than Genarlow Wilson, been present, they would have stepped in and stopped things before this injury was done. This would be true, I believe, even all parties been over 21, or 30, or 40 or more – folly, and the need for compassionate and responsible people to protect their friends from it, knows no age limit.

 

So, while I personally find nothing innately immoral about teenagers having group sex, I find their failure to assure that no one involved was harmed, even if unintentional, to be. The state, though its officers, has, I believe, done far greater harm, and is thus guilty of far greater immorality.

[Zythryn]

I don 't think anyone is saying what Wilson did is Good. And I am certainly not defending his actions.

I am just holding that the penalty is silly. Especially concerning the standards set for actual sex with a minor show above.

[TheFaithfulStone]

There is a big difference between "defending the actions" and realizing that the actions do not really pass the bounds of "typically stupid." However, that's not what we're really talking about here.

 

Yes, yes, yes Genarlow Wilson did a bad thing. HOWEVER, there are many other bad things that people both above and below his age do consistently that we don't punish as harshly. Furthurmore, anything which DOES merit a punishment as harsh as ten years in prison normally requires a specific intent to break the law, or an act of negligence.)

 

So - here are the facts of the case, legally speaking.

 

1) 17 year old girl was NOT raped. (Probably because of the specific intent thing. I'm not sure.)

2) 15 year old girl consensually performed oral sex on several people.

3) 15 year olds cannot consent

4) Receiving oral sex from a minor is automatically child molestation

5) Then penalty for child molestation is 10 years in jail.

 

Now, basically, while there is a little disagreement about 1,2,3, & 5 - the big point of sticking is 4.

 

Is receiving oral sex from a minor automaticall child molestation? Although IANAL, this is called mens rea which is basically the intent to violate the law. (Literally it means "guilty mind")

 

Now, in number 4 - the crime of aggravated child molestation (or statutory rape for that mater) is a strict liability crime - meaning it doesn't matter whether you intended to violate the law or not, you did, and that's that. It's actually pretty unique in this respect. Murder is not a strict liability crime, for instance, nor in fact is "regular" rape - (at least in any jurisdiction I know of) if you kill someone on accident, it isn't homicide - and if you weren't negligent about it, it's probably not even a criminal matter.

 

So the real argument here is whether statutory rape or aggravated child molestation (the difference here appears to be the orifices which are involved) OUGHT to be strict liability crime.

 

The liability is said to be strict because defendants will be convicted even though they were genuinely ignorant of one or more factors that made their acts or omissions criminal. The defendants may therefore not be culpable in any real way, i.e. there is not even criminal negligence, the least blameworthy level of mens rea.

 

So, the argument here becomes that in this instance the law does not make any sense. We are basically punishing someone for something which they have no real culpability for, and which they cannot reasonably be expected to know.

 

Most strict liability crimes are things like traffic and parking offense.

 

Does it make sense to equate statutory rape with a parking offense?

 

This is NOT a question of "is" this is a question of "should."

Guilty and innocent are states of mind in criminal cases, NOT courses of action. Being guilty requires not only that you HAVE done it, but that you INTENDED to do it.

 

It is therefore unjust to imprison Genarlow Wilson for ten years for this crime. Not because he didn't do it, but because he's not guilty in the legal sense of the word.

 

TFS

[TheFaithfulStone]

Slate makes a good case about Mike Nifong.

 

TFS

[C1ay]

Our local paper, the Douglas County Sentinel, has a poll about this case (yes, I live in the county that tried and sentenced him.) Currently about 52% are saying he should serve out his sentence as prescribed by law to 46% saying he should be released for time served.

[Zythryn]

Were those the only two choices in the poll?

I think the poll would be much more valuable if it included an option for a lesser penalty, but still more than 'he gets out today'.

[C1ay]

The only other option given is "undecided". As of this post the poll is available at the link above.

[CraigD]

Our local paper, the Douglas County Sentinel, has a poll about this case (yes, I live in the county that tried and sentenced him.) Currently about 52% are saying he should serve out his sentence as prescribed by law to 46% saying he should be released for time served.

I’m mildly surprised by these poll results (As of this posting, 791=49.7% against Wilson’s release, 760=47.8% for, 39=2.5% undecided). I’d gotten the impression from previous news articles that a majority of Douglas County residents, and people state, nation, and world-wide, either believed Wilson’s conviction to be wrong, or his sentence to be excessive.

 

Of course, a voluntary internet poll isn’t statistically valid (sample selection bias – people who read and vote in such polls have interest in the story, and thus may not be representational of the whole population). Assuming that the statistically 50/50% poll results are accurate, though rehashes the question of why people believe one way or the other.

 

I’ve heard no contention by Wilson’s supporters or opponents suggest that he is considered a threat to society, likely to steal, rape, kill, or commit other crimes if allowed to leave prison. Therefore, I conclude that most opinions are based on the conclusion that Wilson committed or did not commit a wrong, and should or should not be punished for it. Both sides seem agreed that the act for which Wilson, a minor at the time of the act, was convicted of aggravated child molestation was welcoming and receiving oral sex from a minor. The question of why some people believe he should be punished appears to equate to why some people believe such an act to be wrong enough to warrant incarceration, while others believe it to not be wrong, or not wrong enough to warrant incarceration.

 

There appear to be 2 main grounds for concluding that it is:

• law and order - because a violation of the law, regardless of its nature, should be prosecuted and punished as prescribed by law
  
• sexual morality – because sexual behavior unsanctioned by entities such as a state or a church should be prosecuted and punished.
  

The main grounds for concluding that it is not appear to be simply the rejection of both of the above.

 

I have a hunch – nothing I can substantiate with statistical evidence on hand – that most of the people who feel that Wilson should be punished do so on sexual morality grounds. I also suspect that people who consider Wilson’s actions wrong on those grounds are more likely to believe that laws should be strictly enforced than those who do not share their beliefs concerning sexual morality.

[C1ay]

I’m mildly surprised by these poll results (As of this posting, 791=49.7% against Wilson’s release, 760=47.8% for, 39=2.5% undecided). I’d gotten the impression from previous news articles that a majority of Douglas County residents, and people state, nation, and world-wide, either believed Wilson’s conviction to be wrong, or his sentence to be excessive.

 

It surprised me too. Based on the day to day conversations I have with other people of Douglas County I expected the same overwhelming support for Genarlow in the poll as I have experienced in the community. I've met no one personally that has advocated that he should serve out his sentence and yet the poll shows that to be the majority in the county.

[Tormod]

He was freed today.

 

Wilson released after two years behind bars for teen sex conviction - CNN.com

[InfiniteNow]

He was freed today.

 

Wilson released after two years behind bars for teen sex conviction - CNN.com

 

It's about darned time. Cruel and unusual punishment is an accurate representation of this case.

 

 

I heard this earlier on NPR and immediately remembered this thread. :evil:

[Turtle]

He was freed today.

 

Wilson released after two years behind bars for teen sex conviction - CNN.com

 

Partly as a result of Wilson's conviction, state legislators changed the law to make such consensual conduct between minors a misdemeanor, rather than a felony.

 

A half step in the right direction was taken as well, inasmuch as they changed the law he was originally prosecuted under. Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdidy of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country by Peter McWilliams

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