How does music work?

[ronthepon]

Instrumental music, in particular is pretty wierd in the way it affects us.

 

Why do only a few combinations of tunes and frequencies seem musical and not others?

 

Why do we hum a newly heard tune endlessly until it begins to give us a headache?

 

How is music (instrumental) related to our thinking process?

 

Has there been any research or theory on the subject?

 

:phones:

:confused:

[Tormod]

Interesting questions but not sure why you place it in medical science. Music is used in therapy but I think it is more a cultural issue (as in the effect of art on people, creativity, and the social role of art in society).

 

A lot of research has been done on many things so it would perhaps be a good idea to isolate a few things. Like the humming of tunes, for example - it begs the question: why do people like different types of music? How can people in India like their pop music, while Westerners fall for ours?

 

There are many reasons why music is important to people, and evidence of music in society is very, very old.

[ronthepon]

-Officially a mild and embarassed explaination-

I place it in medical science because I thought it's got to do with working of the brain...

[Chacmool]

Interesting topic! Where would it fit in best? Physics, because of the wave properties of sound? Biology, because of the part the ear plays? Or Social Sciences, because of the cultural significance? :confused:

[pgrmdave]

There's been quite a bit of research done on music, but I don't have access to it. My high school band director is pursuing his doctorate in music education and he used to tell us about all the interesting research that he'd done. A lot of what we find pleasant in music is merely due to culture, for instance, Western culture has 12 notes until it repeats, many asian cultures have more notes, which opens up for more chords, more cadences, and very different sounding music.

[Tormod]

Maybe we need that music forum after all.

[UncleAl]

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/week234.html

The mathematics of music including torsors, orbifolds, and Mathieu groups.

[ronthepon]

That's an excellent link, UncleAl.

[InfiniteNow]

I remember a professor of mine once making the statement, "We think in terms of sound." He was a cognition professor, so it always stood out to me.

 

Something about the rhythms and buzzing associated with nerve cells firing. He went so far as to tie in the ideas of alpha and beta waves. Some music just matches a dominant frequency within us I suppose.

 

We also react differently to music depending on what we are feeling, and will choose different music to correspond with our feelings. Punk rock, classical, dance, jazz... some are good always, while with others one needs to be "in the mood."

 

Interesting question indeed, Ron. :rolleyes: :eek2: :cool:

[InfiniteNow]

Has there been any research or theory on the subject?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10580715&dopt=Abstract

 

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2002/dec/121202.html

 

 

PDF warning:

http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/publications/papers/98.3.JNMR_Brain_Opera.pdf

[Panjandrum]

Maybe we need that music forum after all.

 

Or perhaps a 'general science' forum, for things that dont easily fit elsewhere?

 

Tho personaly I would think this is a Psychology question.

[anglepose]

ok the reason we like certain sounds, is becuase the nueral patern of a good sounding sound is simlar to an emotion or item we know of such as

: e g b is a happy triad becuase its nueral pattern i simlar to the nueral pattern of a a happy emotion same as : d Eb f# g is a mysterious or scary chord becuase it is simlar to say the nueral pattern of fear or mystery.

 

(completely apart from my post this would be a good thread for a fine arts forum completely right pandjerum and tormod)

[InfiniteNow]

From Closed thread:

i love music. all kinds of music; the reason for this thread is just a thought on music.

I used to think that i could tell what kind of a mood a person was in by the type of music they listene'd to and in some most rare situations I felt I could almost confront a persons actual inner-self and see who a person is by what they are listening too.

The more that I investigate and preech of music the more I begin to understand that generally the people that are stuck in the one genre of music will have more of a musical affect on there lives in a idolistic sort of way. Then you got this person that listens to everything from shania tawaiin to vanilla ice and ice cube. this person is the person that you can look at and see what mood they are in by the type of music they listen too.

A problem comes in here, because if you do not know a person, how are you suppose to know if this person always listens to this genre of music or if this person is just depressed.

My thoughts used to go further then I wanted them to go when I first started thinking about the use of music and the mind, in a science fiction state of mind i wonder if it is possible to, using musical notes and radio waves enter the brains core and communicate and/or control with some sort of (radio) wave.

SO i get to where I wanted to say that not only do i believe that a persons mood has a affect on what they listen too but also that what a person listens to might affect their mood or who they become.

Does anybody else have any thoughts on in what way or how music affects the brain and/or how a person thinks, acts and becomes. any thing. please feel free and endulge in your mind with me. thanks.

theMaRTuiGaN

[InfiniteNow]

From Closed Thread:

Man,

 

when a funky groove starts to flow thru me

and I start analyzing every aspect

every compression ratio

all the pre decay of the reverb

 

heh, it's bliss.

 

Music erupting from anywhere curing my negativity.

 

Hey martiuigan, Download some ravi shankar.

 

With an open mind, you will love him.

He's one of my favorites.

 

I have no Idea how music works, I just know how to manipulate it, produce it, and transcend it.

 

Improvising music is the greatest thing I have ever learned.

 

It just flows thru, Everything I've ever learned taking me to the next moment.

 

And silence is the other half of music! Classical music exercises that wonderfully.

 

"music sweet music,

i wish i could caress, and kiss, and kiss"

 

Jimi Hendrix

[DarkColoredLight]

Bringing up the point I wanted to post in the closed thread in referance to different genre's.

 

It's my belief that music and it's different genres are a caption of the moment, in relationship to what mood the listener is in. On a shitty day I might throw on some of my favorite metal, to scream along and release anger. On a nice summer day I might throw in some calm classical music to relax to, and maybe grab a book to read. I hope you get the point.

 

The reason for not liking a specific genre is most likey just a misunderstanding. The concept of not knowing the feeling of the mood, not relating to the tempo/lyrics/etc, so not wanting to listen.

 

As for new popular music. It's main goal is to get people to dance and have a good, drunk time. So if the listener can nod their head to the beat, they'll be able to shake their A with other drunken dancers.

 

Anyone who said intoxication and/or hormones isn't a factor in popular music is dead wrong, IMO. Throughout history, state of mind has changed the face of music. I'm not sure of specific examples, for every genre chronologicly. But, my example can be of Black Sabbath. The singer Ozzy Osbourne realized people at the time would goto these scary movies for entertainment. So he figured he could have the same effect in music, hence the dark mood of early metal. So he did. Now he's credited for starting the metal craze, although he wasn't the first of the style, he was the most popular. To say drugs weren't a factor for Ozzy, please, have you seen "The Osbournes?" Although it is true that artist have been sucessful without the use of drugs, or at least did a great job at covering it. :hihi: They still had to have some inspiration to create, some natural body function. Like say hormones.

 

Corrent me if I'm wrong, Inform me if I'm right,

DCL

[themartuigan]

yes music is a very interesting subject. one thing that i have always thought about and asked myself about is the attraction to music that we people have. why do people like music so much? music must be one of the most strongest survivors of the past. music moves around so much faster then anything else, but it has become more of a idolization tactic. now-a-days you dont even need to be good at it to do it you just have to have the money to do it. which to me has taken alot from the music.

The one thing that is beyond the topic of mentioned above is talent. I believe that there is much more to music then what is generally attributed to the topic. i believe that it has more to do with our brain and inner feelings and the tones/ wave lengths and speeds of the sounds that we hear. the average person has a diferent mental reality, a diferent perspective of things. i mean one person can look at a car and see green while one sees black and neither will know that they both see the same car as a diferent color. that is how everything is with everybody. so i like this type of music because i am alligned diferently in the brain and in actuality the whole human system. you like that type because you are not alligned exactly the same as me. Where i am going to get to with this thought and this alligation is that our brain releases and intercepts sound waves. (radio waves) every sound has a diferent wave length or speed and our brain hears those sounds....<it is like looking at a telekenesis not as a magical power but as it being the ability to hear really quiet sounds that brain puts off>....[maybe dogs and cats, or animals in general are telekenisis] maybe that is how they can tell when they are in danger or if they are safe; maybe they sense diferent and all wave lengths in the way that a telekenesis would. :{bats in the air do not see with their eyes they see with waves. just like a fish does in the see. so these things fly around using their brain by interpreting wave lengths and speeds as diferent colors and sizes or obstacles. so maybe every brain can get these waves, but we as human beings, the ones that think we are the high and almighty of the world but are nothing compared to the animals that really can communicate. maybe because we, as humans have been spit upon and relieved of the ability to do what we could only imagine doing. imagine our brains being able to talk to dogs and cats, to sense and see things like them. the knowledge that they must have, they can talk to eachother without speaking. using brain waves/ telekenisis. I mean in reality it is very realistic and I believe that this is why we can listen to music and feel very close to it. music has its own sounds that our brain waves understand even though we dont understand or realize that our brain can do that. they sound good to the ear because our brain senses it and our brain tells us that it sounds good; think of it like a computer; an animal brain has more gigabytes of harddrive b/c they have an extra infinite hard drive space, along with their sub-conscious mind; where as in us as in the humans, we are stuck with the space that we started out with, we havent had any upgrades and still do not understand the thought of it all, the utopian feeling and what not data and short ****; but we have the ability to understand them using our brain, but instead we choose to go into artificial intelligence, everything that they have for that is basically designed and improved based off of our humanoide bodies am i not correct?.?/ so our brains hear and understand the sounds that they hear even though the sounds are not hearable to the ear, it is like a feeling, a 6th sense maybe, something like that. something that you have and can get from somebody else, like an animal does, without the need to speak. our mind just senses things diferently when the brain interprets it into the system; the system cannot read the entire manuscript because it does not speak the language that is on the manuscript/ or the installation disc. the animals and nature itself has stayed in tune with all of this sense the beginning and for average american humanoide personalle we have not, we have not done our part in evolution like we were (in my opinioN) intended to do. we have not necisarily failed, but then again, we did. we failed because we choose the path of falsehood and electronical malfunction instead of the royal path of the inner mind-master poweer. that is our loss. but my question is: is it to late to change the way the mind thinks or is that going to maybe be the next part of the world? are we going to shift into the way that animals see things and live in the world of them dominating in intelligence? what happens and why? because it does happen, is there a reason? i sometimes think so i sometimes wonder if it is so, i know that i wish i had the feeling that alot of people claim to have, i search and search for it and i learn more all the time but it is never enough, i learn this much and then i want to learn more; when will i know it all? i will never know it all, that is my worry, am i worried or will it come to an end? will i ever feel so for sure of my self that i can get cocky and be akward in a perfect state of mind; will i ever be able to stop and rest without worrying about the time wasted not learning something, not spending my time on what isnt important and focus on nothing but that. i do not do a thing but spend it writing, in a book and in a mind. a thought foretold a thought of lightning, blitzed my screen such sadder frighteneing. howww do i stand in fright with my mind gone inside, hidden back from the dark end hall with the window at the end of none at all.

none. and that is that so turn back fast, hit it with a fat lipped smack and do that justice to your friend and wash his money with a tall screened grin. now know-it-be for to youll see that spentch is night while frights in sight and i know now that mine ends twice. how do i focus on my life when my eyes go numb and my fingers just type? how do i see the truth when my thoughts fall back and my mind just stops. i go and go all night non stop but my minds got lost, failing and falling tuning and two how do i get the thoughts that i sure miss? help is failing and its falling away from home, so get me these words that i just wrote...and thank you.

theMaRTuiGaN

 

PS

what exactly is telekenisis? do we posess this "thought process" ? is that the way an animal thinks? how does it work? how do brain waves work? how do radio waves work? it is all about wave lengths and sounds, i dont know much about wave lengths and sounds but for some reason i understand the fact that it is all about wavelengths and sounds; this is the case? or no? when we see, we see in wavlengths correct? when we hear, we hear in wavelenghts right? so then what we see is giving off a distinct wavelength so that we know what it is and that same goes for a specific sound. we dont hear these waves with our "ears" but we hear them with our minds (or brain). is this any where on to the right path of anything? or am i just gone to nuts in the farm cat? any reply would be greatly appreciated. thanks again.

theMaRTuiGaN

[DarkColoredLight]

yes music has just gone to nuts in the farm cat?

theMaRTuiGaN

 

Common case of overthinking, which is a sign of insanatiy. Because you started with "Wow music is cool" in the middle was something about how Animals are more resourceful than humans, then the end was "Am I crazy?" For further words of wisdom/the obvious, seek the pm box.

 

P.S. Nice ryhming though :)

 

 

 

As for the original thread:

 

With the ever changing world of moods, why is it that we often go back and rediscover artists we already know and grew to love? I say it gives us a chance to go back in time and reminise all the good times we had.

 

Often times when I hear a song, on say the radio, that I haven't heard in a long time, my mind jumps back to a scene when I was listening to said song. Whether it was while playing video games, watching a movie, in a car, working, etc etc I remember it like it was not yesterday, but today. On another note, when I play a song on my guitar that was learned in a specific mood in my life, that feeling tends to take over me. Swaying me back in time to the thoughts and emotions I felt while learning or writing the song. This makes me tend to believe that music is a huge part of memory as a whole. Bringing up another point of lyrics.

 

How often do you catch yourself not remembering the words to your current favorite song, untill the song is playing? When its playing, you can sing along like you're the orinial performer, dispite how good or bad you are able to sing it. Can't it also be said that no matter the situation it ALWAYS sounds good to you in your head. This might not be a huge factor in what makes a person like music, then come back to it. But then again, it might.

 

 

Thoughts?

DCL