Panjandrum Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 But reality really means the consciousness of everything and everyone that exists, consciousness is reality and existense. If this is your position, then your premise is fundamentally flawed. If both reality and relgion are subsets of consciouness, then reality and religion are of equal importance. It is begging the question to attempt to 'disproove' a subset of a theory using another subset of the same theory. Similarly, you cannot demonstrate that any give subset (or religion) is more or less valid than any other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 There are two forms of reality, objective reality and subjective reality. Objective reality can be subject to experiments by many different people and each will reach the same conclusion. If we throw a ball in the air anywhere in the world it will come back down. Assuming one does not alter natural reality with devices that create magnetic fields or upflow air. Subjective reality is not the same across the board for the same mental experiment or interpretation of data, with each opinion held as strongly as though it was objective reality. This distinction might be used to thiest's advantage. Maybe he can create a type of hoax that will appeal to both objective and subjective reality. This gets everyone together; those who want to believe and those who are intent on disproving him both objectively and subjectively. The hoax fails. Thiest now becomes the antagonist that brings all the sides together in an entirely differnent way. But the collective victory is hollow, since Thiest had been the cataylist for all the excitement and scheming. After a few tear jerker scenes, Thiest is asked to return and explains how reality finally occurred when they were all ended up on the same positive page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 My question is if you were going to try to get Theist to believe in reality how would you do it? More important in this case, how would you entice people of other religious faiths to attend your church, "The Church of Reality"?This sounds quite a bit like the mission of the brights (I am a bright), though an orthodox bright (an oxymoron, I hope) would cringe at any phrase with “church” in it. Young Atheist would do well to lose the condescending “believe in reality” line, as most people, theist or atheist, already believe they do “believe in reality”. “Have a naturalistic/supernatural-free worldview” is a more PC turn of phrase. Now, to the heart of my answer:YA must be gorgeous and charismatic (since this is a movie script, that shouldn’t be a problem). Since Abstruce didn’t specify YA’s gender, make it female. Medium height and build, but imposingly athletic. Wears leathers and a full face helmet with a dark visor, shakes long, shampoo-commercial-perfect hair from it whenever she takes it off, which is frequently.YA recruits a cadre of cute, hot-but-don’t-know-they-are, plastic-framed glasses wearing GirlGeeks. All Spend much filmtime slow-mo walking in v-formation, shaking hair in ever-present wind.That’s pretty much the whole plan.Whole world of young men is draw from the clutches of mother-whatever church to new church, minds set alight by the beauty of supernaturalism-free nature.Remaining theists (nearly all pouty stereotypical cheerleader girls with imperfect complexions), don glasses in emulation of GGs, and join YA’s new church.Last remnant of theists are all old, flustered-looking, and unable to use more than the simplest household appliances without technical assistance from now converted GeekFolk, who have migrated in vast processions of PT Cruisers to wherever YA’s church is – The northern outskirts of Boulder, CO seems a good location.Nobody cares much about the old theists, who are fed by charitable new-worldians with a small fraction of the wealth gained from the online sale of music and video, and allowed to watch low-definition relegious television until they finally die of old age.Everbody lives happily ever afterorYA and various leading GGs are captured and threatened by wicked middle-aged male televangelists, but rescued in a climactic ending, avoiding the need to mention the mood-killing old people unwilling to give up their obsolete religion or media.$100k is an awful small budget, but with lots of reuse of some well-done slow-mo walking/hair waving, and either an original soundtrack or absolute disregard for music royalties, it might just be possible ;) Good luck, Abstruce – I’ll take a dozen copies of the DVD, and give 11 of them away as x-mass presents! :thumbs_up ughaibu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Don't forget to motivate the audience early on by imparting this precious Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Whatcha gonna do about the sex scenes? Will the main character yell "Oh Science... yeah, Science... Science... SCIENCE!!!" at orgasm? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 A couple of good sex scenes will assure an Academy Award. The problem with defining reality is that it needs to be the same for all, i.e., objective reality. To recruit only a narrow range of people from ronly eligion, from only the streets or from only science, one runs the risk of setting up a new subjectively reality. It is only when all walks of life see the same thing that it is real. No matter what one believes, if we throw a ball in the air it will fall to the earth for all of us. All the differences of opinion are connected to subjective reality. Science is not purely objective, although it likes to think it is. All theoretical science takes plenty of liberty with what we know. It is important to speculate but that does not guarentee objective reality. For example, the creation of the universe has maybe 2-10 versions many of which are mutually exclusive. Even if one is correct, the other 1-9 are examples of subjective reality even though it is treated with all the care of objective science. Actually it is a hybrid of objective/subjective reality since math and data are being used to prove things that may or may not exist in objective reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mperkel Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Interesting that you mentioned a "Church of Reality" because there already is one. http://CENSORED!!!* If it's real - we believe in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Interesting that you mentioned a "Church of Reality" because there already is one. If it's real - we believe in it!Spam. Whether I agree with your site or not, this isn't how we operate at Hypo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanctus Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 The best way for you to find is to look at all the sects and their actions and then find the ones who got most members and then study their tactics. This should do it I would say, but sorry it's not an answer just a way for you to follow.If you know german (I think it's not yet translated at least this is the result of my very quick google research) you might look at the book from jan gaspard called "offenbarung 23", but the title is not important as the author writes every book under another pseudonym. The story there is just about creating prophets ...in our modern world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mperkel Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Spam. Whether I agree with your site or not, this isn't how we operate at Hypo. Ok - well the subject that someone raised was "Church of Reality" and I was trying to point out that it already exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Ok - well the subject that someone raised was "Church of Reality" and I was trying to point out that it already exists.No worries, mate - but for a very first post, that kinda smelt like spam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mperkel Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 No worries, mate - but for a very first post, that kinda smelt like spam... I understand. I was doing a google search on Church of Reality and this thread came up. Great minds think alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Boerseun is correct in his judgement, but I'll post the link for you. It's a great site. http://www.churchofreality.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mperkel Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Boerseun is correct in his judgement, but I'll post the link for you. It's a great site. http://www.churchofreality.org/ Thanks - I appreciate that. I can understand why he thought it was spam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstruce Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Abstruce, Why do these religuos figures appear to an athiest. Would not the athiest deny their authority? What purpose would he have in doing their bidding?Some guy Some GuyThank you for your response, Sorry I have taken so long to reply. I am in the middle of a move. The reason the prophets need an Atheist is because, an Atheist is the only person with no religious prejudice who can start a new religion in order to repair the problematic religions created in the name of these dead prophets. The case of Christianity in point. The Christian bible the New Testament was written well after the death of Jesus and in this movie Jesus disagrees with what it says and wants to fix the problem. Just as he disagreed with the Jewish Old Testament. The only reason the Atheist wants to help them is because he sees the religious world as problematical and will do whatever it takes to bring reform. Even if he has to create a new religion to bring about change. Abstruse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstruce Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Whatcha gonna do about the sex scenes? Will the main character yell "Oh Science... yeah, Science... Science... SCIENCE!!!" at orgasm? :hihi: That is FUNNY, I love it........ or how about "Oh baby, E=mc2 O, Mc, O baby, OOO " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstruce Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 . All the differences of opinion are connected to subjective reality. Science is not purely objective, although it likes to think it is. All theoretical science takes plenty of liberty with what we know. It is important to speculate but that does not guarentee objective reality. For example, the creation of the universe has maybe 2-10 versions many of which are mutually exclusive. Even if one is correct, the other 1-9 are examples of subjective reality even though it is treated with all the care of objective science. Actually it is a hybrid of objective/subjective reality since math and data are being used to prove things that may or may not exist in objective reality. Science and Religion are branches of the same tree. They are trying to obtain the answers to the unknown questions of Man. My objective, is to allow for the understanding that we do not know all the answers and it is ok to live in the mystery. Reality is not the same for all people, at all levels of aspect. The Wealthy realize a different lifestyle and outlook than the Poor. The Reality of the individual is dynamic yet connected and evolving with constant change. We are able to change and direct our Reality and this is the most important aspect of Reality. I know this sounds confusing, yet when understood it is not so difficult. Reality is a word and meaning that deserves great detail of study and understanding. "Abstruse" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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