Sex and clothing...

[Boerseun]

I've got an hypothesis regarding sex and clothing, but first the background:

 

Humans have, with their upright posture, evolved complications with childbirth, what with the hipbones and stuff being in the way. The vagina have also become less accessible, and this fact, together with human's copulation style, have led to human males having the longest penises umongst primates.

 

What's this gotta do with clothes?

 

When we look at the clothing of bushmen and Australian aborigines as similar to our primitive ancestors, it seems clear that clothing clearly didn't have anything to do with keeping warm. Of course, after humans moved north into Europe and Asia, clothing was beneficial in that sense and was expanded from a simple loincloth to more elaborate designs to retain body-heat. But I digress - a loincloth is of no use at all in any sense, apart from 'covering your nakedness'.

 

So what's the use of covering your nakedness? Here's my theory:

With human posture being what it is, and the vagina being as inaccessable as it is (relatively speaking, of course), it seems reasonable to suppose that the longest penis will have the biggest chance of impregnating a female. And females should, if given the choice, select the males with the longest penises not only for upping the chances of falling pregnant, but also for increasing the chances of their offspring to procreate (the offspring will also now have longer penises). The female, after all, contributed 50% of the genetic material, and has a vested interest in selecting for attributes that will increase the chances of the offspring to continue the line.

So men got wise to this, and decided to cover their penises as a ruse - if not, only one guy in the tribe will get to procreate. So men ended up having issues with penis length all through the ages, and instead invented a bunch of other things with which to impress females. So now in the tribe, everybody wearing loincloths, their visible sexual ability would all be the same. Selection now is expanded to much more subtle things, like who can supply the most food (seeing as the offspring needs to eat, etc.). Supplying the most food is also a function of brain-power. And so the cycle continues.

 

I'm just thinking that penis envy has very ancient roots.

[Jay-qu]

Interesting hypothesis you got there Boerseun - but wouldnt you think that a male with a large penis would not have been shamed and not wanted it hidden.. also I can see another benefit for covering up, running and jumping around while hunting and such would have your bits flopping around all over the place, which is painful enough itself but also the potential of having them catch on on a shrub or tree :cup: ouch

[Boerseun]

Interesting hypothesis you got there Boerseun - but wouldnt you think that a male with a large penis would not have been shamed and not wanted it hidden..

That's the thing, see - if everybody's bits are hidden, even the well-endowed guys won't know if they quite make the grade! Every male will be suspect of how they compare with the other guys, and everybody covering up will make the playing field level for all. It won't stop the neuroses and paranoia, though!

Interesting take on getting your 'nads stuck on a thorn branch, though!

[Drip Curl Magic]

jay, your post hurt to read.

 

I think you both have good points.

 

I've always kinda wondered why there is such a huge fuss over penis size. It seems to be engrained in human nature.

[Racoon]

Thats why Jay-Q's nickname is "Tripod" :)

 

I've always wondered why some women complain about guys staring at their breasts and ***, while they wear total cleavage showing tops and short skirts or whatever.

Wear a damn blazer and slacks then...:phones:

 

Mixed Messages. No Wonder.

[Racoon]

Due to the sensitivity of that region, I can see why bushmen might not want to get sunburned down under mate!

 

Plus you don't want to get bit by mosquitos there, or be subjected to undue stressors.

 

Plus up North, its such a loss of heat from that region.

 

Interesting inquiry Boerseun...

[Buffy]

And so you kiddies are all too young to have seen the original, ungauzed cover of Sticky Fingers?

 

[img=http://rateyourmusic.com/album_images2/145.jpg]http://rateyourmusic.com/album_images2/145.jpg[/img]

 

Yeah, you got satin shoes, :xx:

Buffy

[Queso]

And so you kiddies are all too young to have seen the original, ungauzed cover of Sticky Fingers?

 

 

Yeah, you got satin shoes, :)

Buffy

 

Ah, I may be too young but I know what you're talking about.

Slightly to the right, if I remember correctly? :)

 

Most of us wear jeans,

sometimes jeans will cling so hard

and expose the embossment down the

leg.:umno:

[Jay-qu]

down the leg is the way - unless your standing and the unthinkable happens - then you gotta use the belt :hihi:

[danielled330]

Thats why Jay-Q's nickname is "Tripod" :cup:

 

I've always wondered why some women complain about guys staring at their breasts and ***, while they wear total cleavage showing tops and short skirts or whatever.

Wear a damn blazer and slacks then...:note:

 

Mixed Messages. No Wonder.

 

Hey I'm a girl who does cover up and i'm still getting stared at! Last sat night i was going to the store wearing sweat pants and an oversized sweater and a man shout across the street at me bout the size of my breasts! Slacks and a blazer don't always work sweetheart!!!:lightbulb

[TheBigDog]

Hey I'm a girl who does cover up and i'm still getting stared at! Last sat night i was going to the store wearing sweat pants and an oversized sweater and a man shout across the street at me bout the size of my breasts! Slacks and a blazer don't always work sweetheart!!!:lightbulb

If I had known it was you I would have just smiled and waved. :note:

 

Bill

[cwes99_03]

That's the thing, see - if everybody's bits are hidden, even the well-endowed guys won't know if they quite make the grade! Every male will be suspect of how they compare with the other guys, and everybody covering up will make the playing field level for all. It won't stop the neuroses and paranoia, though!

Interesting take on getting your 'nads stuck on a thorn branch, though!

Ok, two problems.

 

1) isn't it much simpler to believe Jay-qu's response to protecting the pubic areas, or even simpler yet (getting my digs in) to believe they did so to please their god?

 

2) if so, then why were public baths with complete nudity commonplace among at least the greeks and I would suspect other cultures considering the sheer number of times I've seen naked children from different parts of the word bathing in a river.

[Boerseun]

Good points.

 

I still think if not for covering sexual parts, clothing must have had origins unrelated to thermal regulation.

 

Think about it: What good does a loincloth do in heat or cold?

 

How about this: Females, out picking berries and gathering roots, had to keep their infants close to them somehow. Human babies take incredibly long, relatively speaking, to become independent as far as walking goes, and don't have the dexterity to grip on to their mothers like baby monkeys do. But now the mothers can't pick berries with one hand and hold the baby with the other. So they either needed a pouch to keep their gatherings in, or a kind of a sling to keep the baby in. And this was fashioned out of a dead animal's hide, and evolved from there on further to become clothes.

 

Men, similarly, out on the hunt, needed a kitbag for their stone knives and tools to cut the kill up, but obviously couldn't carry all of it in their hands whilst running after animals. They, also, needed to fashion some kind of slingbag, and I guess the loincloth evolved out of it for the sole purpose of gathering stuff. In both the male and female example used here, the weight added to these loincloth toolkit bags will lie on the hips, and will not impede movement as a shoulder bag would. The curve of the hips would also prevent it from sliding down.

 

I reckon clothing came from either the above, or for covering their sexual parts as a ruse in procreation. But the previous posts contained a few good points why that was probably not the case.

 

But whatever the case might be, I strongly doubt that warding off the cold had anything to do with it. Humans, after all, evolved in the grass plains of Africa, and not in the Arctic!

 

Which means that a naked handyman wearing only a toolbelt is about as close to our human roots as we could get!

[InfiniteNow]

What if it's a camoflage issue? Like lions rubbing in dung before the hunt to camoflage their scent? Perhaps ancestral tribes used furs and skins to blend in more with the surroundings. This potentially just evolved and those with the more interesting skins received better social exchanges.

[Jay-qu]

yet another good point, maybe there is no one reason - people across different continents may have started using clothing for different reasons.

[gribbon]

Boersun,

 

.....you seem to have a rather thorough interest/obsession with sex! :hihi: :cup: :D

[Boerseun]

Boersun,

 

.....you seem to have a rather thorough interest/obsession with sex! :hihi: :cup: :D

Heeeeeeyyyy!!!

 

THREAD REVIVAL!!!

 

I've completely forgotten about this one! Thanks, Gribbon! I'm still quite interested in the origins of clothing, and I would love it if your revival here gets us some more answers to the issue!