anglepose Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 has anybody ever noticed the relationship between boiling/ melting etc..and the atomic weight of an atom. that roughly the higher the atomic mass the higher the boilig point.good this be a penguin effect where the more nnuetrons and protons there are the higher the melting point is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules (even if its a "pure" combination, like C4 or H2). Only the Noble Gases just sit there. As a result, boiling/freezing points end up having more to do with the *configuration* of the *molecules* that get formed, than the underlying atomic weights. Although you will see correlations, there are probably more exceptions... Plays a Chemist on Hypography,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 well without the few exceptions the general trend happens because of electrostatic forces between the atoms - the bigger they are the more charge they carry and the better they can 'hold' onto the other atoms nearby. This means more energy (heat) is needed to break the bolds and either melt or boil it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hmmm, it isn't really so simple, the forces aren't proportional to Z, and Buffy many atoms including the metals don't form *molecules*. Even NaCl fr'instance isn't really a molecule. roughly the higher the atomic mass the higher the boilig point.;) :) :D :wave:I don't think iron (Z=26) melts more easily than copper (Z=29) or zinc (Z=30), even less compared with tin (Z=50) lead (Z=82). What about... mercury? (Z=80) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hmmm, it isn't really so simple, the forces aren't proportional to Z, and Buffy many atoms including the metals don't form *molecules*. Even NaCl fr'instance isn't really a molecule.Yah, that's what I meant. Man, NaCl and other lattices do all sortsa weird things. Do you know what the melting point of a Buckyball is? ;) The point is even if you limit yourself to molecules, you're going to have more exceptions than rules to the gross correllation that is sorta-kinda there, so what we're all saying angelpose, is that your proposition is really not true, nor is it tremendously valuable....its kinda like saying "lots of plants are green": its sorta true, but there are so many exceptions that its not really a useful statement. Is it getting hot in here?Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Sheesh, Buffy, what time is it in Sunnydale? :) Yah, that's what I meant.That wasn't so obvious! :naughty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 the Melting Point for Boron is K2300 :) Don't be a Moron about Boron, Racoon :naughty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Sheesh, Buffy, what time is it in Sunnydale? :xx:Sleep? What's that? That wasn't so obvious! :DWell, simplification was the goal, I kinda assumed if I phrased the sentance "Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules or lattices or tubes or ..." that I would have lost the introductory-level audience... Over-simplification has its place... :xx: Pedagogically,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayra Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Sleep? What's that? Well, simplification was the goal, I kinda assumed if I phrased the sentance "Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules or lattices or tubes or ..." that I would have lost the introductory-level audience... Over-simplification has its place... :xx: Pedagogically,Buffy And the "introductory-level audience... " thanks you :xx: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 I kinda assumed if I phrased the sentance "Few elements exist for long as lone atoms and form into molecules or lattices or tubes or ..."Howzabouts: "Most atoms get really tied up in tight knots with each other." :confused: Oversimplistically,Qfwfq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayra Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Howzabouts: "Most atoms get really tied up in tight knots with each other."Qfwfq. So they are knotty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithfulStone Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Howzabouts: "Most atoms get really tied up in tight knots with each other." :eek2: Oversimplistically,Qfwfq. Mark the day! Q explains something simplistically! Same guy who used the word "eigenstate" trying to explain quantum position uncertaintly to a complete n00b. ;) :D TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 So they are knotty?Nooooooooo! They aren't knotty, they are :confused:!!!!! What's wrong with an eigenstate Faith? I have'em every morning for breakfast!:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayra Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 I eigenstate therfore I am?:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFaithfulStone Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 That's okay. I'm in an eigenstate of confusion. TFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Which means that your confusion, if not anything else, is perfectly well determined! :tongue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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