Is George W Bush a complete moron ?

[TheBigDog]

The administration has long since lost track of what they are responsible for. They are responsible to the people. They should be accountable for what they do. The people should know what is happening. It’s about accountability. It’s all about accountability. This is why the polls matter. The people aren’t happy. The people want change, yet change is not forthcoming. What we see most consistently is just a continued lack of integrity and insistence on sticking with poor decisions. The administration has opted for a strategy of simply pushing emotional buttons, tactically dumping gasoline on fires to distract us from what started it. It’s about distraction, and I’m hoping to refocus the tiny percent that may actually listen to and agree with what I have to say on the topic.

You are more than welcome to the tiny percentage that may listen to and agree with what you have to say.

See… there you go again, attacking the substance of my posts and not me. I thank you for that. Of course I cannot argue with such infallible logic.

Don't tell me you have lost your sense of humor?

 

I am pushing the issue with you because Hypography is not a special interest site that stacks the deck in favor of one side of the debate, letting that side mock and pose while demanding the other side jump through hoops while being bullied. As a science site there should be a playing field that is unbiased and allows discourse with the same rules applying to all, even in the political areas of the site. I have no personal agenda to harass you, and I hope you know this. I am simply holding you to the same level of proof that is demanded of all members, and to some degree mirroring you own behavior toward others back onto you.

 

Remember, thou art mortal.

 

Bill

[TheFaithfulStone]

Intent is irrelevant. We are talking about action

 

This is factually inaccurate. In fact the only time this is true is with traffic tickets (and in some jurisdictions statutory rape.)

 

but this is a common practice among Presidents in outlining how they interpret the laws to be enforced, and where the bounds of authority lie between the branches of government.

 

So? This is either an appeal to authority, or an appeal to democracy - either way THAT'S irrelevant.

 

And in any case, that's not the point. The standard was "Must play by the rules." George W. Bush has said "I won't play by the rules set by Congress."

 

He has stated his INTENT to not play by the rules.

 

To continue the baseball analogy - If you state ahead of time that you won't swing until you're a strike back (and you don't lie about it) you're going to end up a strike back!

 

So, there are two possible instance where Bush has not already broken the torture ban.

 

1) He lied about his intent or

2) He has been thrown all balls so far. That is - nobody has been tortured because there is no one TO torture. That is demonstrably untrue. There have been opportunities.

 

There is a separate flaw here, in the claim that Bush is not responsible for the actions of his subordinates. If he knew, or should have known, that his subordinates WERE engaged in torture, and did nothing to stop it, then he IS in fact responsible for their actions, according to my understanding of military justice.

 

 

If you would like another example, it's illegal to conduct government business over a private email account. Although the Presidents emails cannot be subpoenaed by Congressional committee, Karl Rove sent MOST of his emails from an RNC Blackberry - emails which have since disappeared off the server. I find it unlikely that the president is apparently the only member of the White House staff NOT using his Blackberry for government business.

 

TFS

[InfiniteNow]

Where is the substance of your argument?

Really, can you at least limit the request to a specific month or week of transgressions?

Here is one... just from today. Although in for the same reason they tried to impeach Clinton, Libby's sentence has been commuted.

 

Libbys Sentence Commuted, Part II - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/03/washington/03libby.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Mr. Bush’s action, announced hours after a panel of judges ruled that Mr. Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff, could not put off serving his sentence while he appealed his conviction, came as a surprise to all but a few members of the president’s inner circle.

<...>

“I respect the jury’s verdict,” Mr. Bush said in a statement. “But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive.”

 

 

Our powers seem very well balanced, and checked now, don't they?

 

 

Some are more equal than others, indeed...

[Southtown]

Yeah, one was locked up, and the other was not.

[CraigD]

Yeah, one was locked up, and the other was not.

I don’t understand who you are referring to, Southtown. Neither Bill Clinton nor Scooter Libby have been locked up as punishment for perjury or related crimes.

 

Clinton was impeached (charged) but not convicted by Congress for his false denial of having had sex with Monica Lewinsky during testimony in his own defense in a civil lawsuit, and, in a settlement with the state of Arkansas and a special federal prosecutor, was stripped of his license to practice law in Arkansas (disbarred) for 5 years, and paid a $25,000 fine to the bar.

 

Libby was convicted by a US District Count of falsely denying that he told journalist Judith Miller that Valerie Plame was a covert agent of the CIA, and sentenced to be imprisoned for 30 months, sentence beginning before his appeals had ended, fined $250,000, and temporarily disbarred from the two jurisdictions in which he was licensed to practice law. His prison sentence was commuted by President G. W. Bush to 30 months probation. Libby had been ordered to report to prison, but had not yet done so. Unless Libby violates the terms of his probation – typically this would occur if he were suspected by his probation officer of committing a felony (such as drunk driving or possession of an illegal substance) during his probation – he will never be confined to either his home or a prison.

 

This information is available from many sources, including the wikipedia articles “Bill Clinton” and “Lewis Libby”.

[DougF]

What am I suposed to say too this?? :cool: I need a new line of work! :cup: :)

 

Bush Won't Rule Out Libby Pardon - Forbes.com

 

Bush Won't Rule Out Libby Pardon:

President Bush on Tuesday refused to rule out an eventual pardon for I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, leaving open the chance he may wipe away the former White House aide's criminal record after already erasing his prison sentence.

 

"I rule nothing in or nothing out," Bush said when asked about whether he might pardon Libby before leaving office in January 2009.

 

The president's stance, on one level, was merely practical. When he commuted Libby's 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case on Monday, a court ruling had made jail time imminent. Bush has plenty of time to consider a pardon, depending on how Libby's appeals go.

[Racoon]

I wouldn't say George Bush Jr. is a 'moron'. :)

However he's certainly not the sharpest crayon in the box.

 

I would surmise that George W. is monetarily and ethically challenged.

He doesn't do the deep thinking or heavy hitting for his administrations policies...

 

Thats why Dick Cheney is there,.. somewhere,.. hidden in the shadows of everything.

Along with Pops, James Baker, and all the old Reagan,Tri-lateral commision,WMF Banks cronies...

 

 

I do have a problem with Republican people attacking Barak Obama on his experience during the new presidential campaign..

George W. was only a Governor for a few years and a war dodger and failed business man...

[Southtown]

I don’t understand who you are referring to, Southtown. Neither Bill Clinton nor Scooter Libby have been locked up as punishment for perjury or related crimes.

Sorry, I stand corrected, thanks. One was convicted/sentenced and the other not. Still, I don't think the system is leaning the way that Inow does. Bush Ad, yeah.

[Moontanman]

It does not seem to make sense to spend billions of dollars worth of various resources in order to get to a barren place like Mars when the finance is more urgently required here on Earth to balance the ratio of CO2 emission to sequestration. Is it just me or does this guy need his head read ?

 

No,spending a few billions to go to mars is well worth it. at some point we might have a colony on mars and the Eart get hit by a huge metorite, all complex life on the earth is destroyed. Going to and living on mars is a small price to pay for such an insurence policy. Of course we would have to quit fighting in Iraq for a few "Days" to finance it, Space travel and exploration are enexspinsive when comparred modern warfare there is nocomparison. For the price of a major war system we could have a self sustaining colony on the moon. If we had spent 25% of the money we blew on military hardware during the "cold" war we could easily own the inner solar system, beaming energy to the earth, exploiting the asteroid belt for raw materials and shipping purified metals and maybe even finished parts to the earth, yes this could be done cheaper than than the energy costs per tom of moving raw materials around on the earth. Yes money should be spent on things like golbal warming and deforestation. Maybe about 25% of what we soend on ware fare should put hyrgen vehicles in everyones driveway. Sadly war is imporat to some and the reast are left fighting over crums falling from some gaugantuan dinner table. stop space explorationm and give all the money to save the planet and your money would be such a small -art of your budget you would hardly notice. But if there was a Earth wide catcysm you migth see it in a different light, so for Bush gains points on space exploration and looses his shirt of telling the truith,oh yead an looses his pants on saving the planet. personally don't think that any planets will be colonized or eventually even lived on. we'll all live in orbitiong space colonies that will operate like small town that produce certian things and they are traded for good and food from other colonies. there is no reason for humans to keep living on planets. Planets die, orbiting space colonies build, rebuild and evolve as they rebuild to be come as effecent as they can be at protecing their inhabitants. So while bush scores very low on lieing and warfare more and better space travel makes up for it. Now if he would just allow some real money to flow into space we could become a space faring culture with no link to any planet. I have already hashed out my veiw of what these space colonies would look like. we as a culture have to start thinking ahead to what we are going to do when the earth becomes uninhabital planet.

 

Michael

[jackson33]

Racoon; Experience and who you associate with are relevant to a potential president, in the eyes of most Americans. You can see this now in Hillary Clinton who not only lack OTJ performance of duty but the lack of governing anything. Bush II, was a very successful Governor, as claimed by both the major parties in Texas, was backed by many Texas Democrats in both his first and second presidential campaign. He also knew all the folks which helped run Bush I's administration. Very few new faces have been or were new to the inside the beltway mentality, which services he has tapped. As for Obama's accomplishments or lack of them, you need to check out the Democratic view as well.

 

If there were shenanigans going on during GWB military career, my thought would head toward his Mom and as any Mom, she if in the position will try to protect her son. To my knowledge he was eventually *Honorably Discharged* and this reflects to society his services performed.

 

As for failed business person!!! Think he purchased interest in the failing Texas Ranger Baseball team, for less than one million. Personally contributed the the management of the business side, making his investment increase to what was later sold for 13-15 Million.

[Racoon]

As for failed business person!!! Think he purchased interest in the failing Texas Ranger Baseball team, for less than one million. Personally contributed the the management of the business side, making his investment increase to what was later sold for 13-15 Million.

 

 

Try looking up Arbusto Energy, Jackson..

Thats Spanish for "Shrub", or should we say Bush.

 

As for the Rangers baseball team, he was only part owner. And All teams value becomes inflated after time.

 

I remember the baseball side, but not clearly the years.. wasn't it post-strike steroid era? Maybe I should dig that up..

 

How long was Bush Jr. Govenor?

Was that enough experience to become President? No senatoroial duties? No War experience? Just a politically motivated stint in the Air Guard?

"C" grade student who had problems with alcohol and coke?

 

 

Do really you believe Bush Jr. is pulling the strings and making the hard decisions?

[InfiniteNow]

How long was Bush Jr. Govenor?

From 1995 to his resignation in 2000.

 

Everyone I know thought Ann Richards was WAY better for Texas, and probably lots of people I don't know too...

 

 

;)

[CraigD]

If there were shenanigans going on during GWB military career, my thought would head toward his Mom and as any Mom, she if in the position will try to protect her son. To my knowledge he was eventually *Honorably Discharged* and this reflects to society his services performed.

Bush was honorably discharged from the Texas Air National guard (see this archive document image). However, the conclusion that his discharge status is a reflection of having adequately fulfilled his assigned duties is not supported by his service record (see Service Records of John F. Kerry and George W Bush - Links to all public documents - AWOLBush.com. Despite its obviously opinionated domain name, this page accurately links the publicly available service record documents of G. W. Bush and John Kerry. Some of the links are broken, necessitating finding them via The Internet Archive – arguable the most important internet resource existant).

 

As for failed business person!!! Think he purchased interest in the failing Texas Ranger Baseball team, for less than one million. Personally contributed the the management of the business side, making his investment increase to what was later sold for 13-15 Million.

This somewhat exaggerates Bush’s financial involvement with and management of the Rangers.

 

Bushes total investment in the Rangers was $606,302, purchased between 1989 and 1992, entitling him to a 1.8% share. As the Rangers was purchased in total in 1989 for $89,000,000, and valued by Financial World magazine at 157,000,000 in 1994, Bush’s purchases were discounted by 62 to 79%.

 

Bush was hired as a managing general partner in 1989 with a salary of $200,000/yr, resigning in 1994, when he became governor of Texas. He retains his 1.8% share of the team. In 1998, the team was purchased from its 1989 investors group for $250,000,000. Because the sale price exceeded the purchase price plus interest, push received a bonus of 10% in addition to his 1.6% share, earning him $14,900,000 (I’m unable to guess how this amount was calculated, as it seems to low for the stated bonus and share).

 

I understand that Bush was considered a good manager, especially in his handling of the many labor disputes that plagued Major League Baseball during this period. I don’t believe he was involved in major financial decisions.

 

(Source: ESPN.com - Major League Baseball - Timeline: George W. Bush and Rangers)

[TheFaithfulStone]

blah blah blah Tri-lateral commision blah blah blah

 

I KNEW IT.

 

Huey Lewis, George Takei and Colonel Sanders. They're behind EVERYTHING.

 

The bastards.

 

TFS

[jackson33]

From 1995 to his resignation in 2000.

 

Everyone I know thought Ann Richards was WAY better for Texas, and probably lots of people I don't know too...

:hihi:

 

He resigned to become president...

 

Guessing, but think Bush won the election against *Ma*, and then kind of took the 1998 election in a landslide. My folks in Georgetown and most all I know, would disagree with your viewpoint, as well...

[jackson33]

Craig; As the only working partner with in the teams employment, I think his authority was over everything or if nothing else any decision of his, FINAL. I see no other disagreement in you post.

 

Racoon; During the time Bush was in the oil exploration business the price of oil, slumped to record lows, which is so often neglected when *Big Oil* profits come up. Many folks, just went out of business and Bush did sell. Some stocks received in the sale where later sold for about a 200% profit. Boone Pickens, now worth several BILLION, had no better beginning and is now one of the leading energy experts in the US, as well. Arbusto, was picked

because it also meant bush (plant) in Spanish. Bush, his family and most in Texas have long seen the Latino future influence in Texas, which his brother, took to heart.

 

As for his grades, you might check out his University standing prior to judging his HS grades. On pot and drugs, I have no comment and I am not commenting on Andrew Jackson's slave child either...

 

Yes. I do think the President of the US today, is doing it right. Takes a problem listens to the best ever group of experienced advisor's and makes a decision, which he sticks to...

[InfiniteNow]

Yes. I do think the President of the US today, is doing it right. Takes a problem listens to the best ever group of experienced advisor's and makes a decision, which he sticks to...

 

Do you drive your car using this "quality" described above?

 

"Honey, you're about to go off of a cliff. You might want to consider slowing down or perhaps changing direction."

 

"BAH!! I've decided that this is the best route to our improved future, and I'm sticking to it. History will judge my decision and reward my conviction! :evil:"

 

 

Sticking to wrong decisions is not a respect worthy character trait.