Abortion: Murder

[goku]

In the case of rape she should certainly have that right since the preganancy is the result of her rights being taken from her in the first place. In a case of child abuse by a father or brother or other man she should have that right for the very same reason. When she has responsibly attempted to prevent the pregnancy from occuring in the first place by using birth control, she should retain that right. What are a woman's rights regarding her body to begin with if they can be so easily discarded? Are they not rights at all?

once again, somebody done me wrong so i'm gona kill the baby.

there is something bad wrong with anybody that doesn't feel great love when they look at any baby.

maybe that's the problem. not that abortion is murder, but that anybody would actually want to.

[rockytriton]

and like I said before anyone who would take something like abortion lightly and doesn't feel remorse for it shouldn't be having children anyway, and we don't want their genes passing on anyway.

[Edge]

and like I said before anyone who would take something like abortion lightly and doesn't feel remorse for it shouldn't be having children anyway, and we don't want their genes passing on anyway.

Hehehe, the law of evolutionism?

[pgrmdave]

When it is still a fetus, it is still a part of the woman's body, it's not a separate being

 

And this is the crux of the problem, when is the fetus another being? It has seperate life processes, seperate DNA, like I've said before, compare a fetus to a tapeworm, the tapeworm cannot live outside it's host, it has seperate DNA, seperate life processes, but it depends on the host for food. Does that mean that a tapeworm is a part of its host's body?

[C1ay]

once again, somebody done me wrong so i'm gona kill the baby.

there is something bad wrong with anybody that doesn't feel great love when they look at any baby.

maybe that's the problem. not that abortion is murder, but that anybody would actually want to.

You're still advocating that once someone forcibly robs a woman of her rights that she should then have no say so in the matter. That's wrong. There should be nothing wrong with her taking a morning after pill to terminate any pregnancy that might have resulted from that rape.

[goku]

You're still advocating that once someone forcibly robs a woman of her rights that she should then have no say so in the matter.

the woman shouldn't want to kill the baby. :lol:

what's wrong with these women? :hihi:

they make out like having a baby is the worst thing possible. :lol:

when in fact it is the most amazing thing that can happen to a mother, or parents. :)

[rockytriton]

I'm sure it's the most amazing thing that can happen to a woman to have a child from some monster who raped and beat her, yea I'm really sure it's just so amazing for her.

[C1ay]

the woman shouldn't want to kill the baby. :lol:

what's wrong with these women? :hihi:

Apparently you think a lifetime reminder of their nightmare is a good thing.

[nkt]

the woman shouldn't want to kill the baby. :lol:

what's wrong with these women? :hihi:

they make out like having a baby is the worst thing possible. :)

when in fact it is the most amazing thing that can happen to a mother, or parents. :lol:

So, goku, if you got home from work to find the door smashed down and your wife brutally gang raped, with injuries so serious she was left in a wheelchair for life, you would be perfectly ok with that? Or, cwes99_03, perhaps would you blame her for not defending herself properly?

 

When you later find out she is pregnant, would you think it was yours? Would you raise the child as your own? Without ever knowing? Would you treat it exactly the same as your other kids?

 

When the baby is born the wrong colour, or it gets old enough to learn what happened, and gets a DNA test, or perhaps it just notices it has the wrong colour eyes, or you notice the cleft chin... Would that sway your feelings in any way?

 

Say he grows up to be just like his daddy... :)

 

All for the sake of a (perhaps bitter) pill that removes the problem (or at least the reminder of the problem). And what's the difference between a woman taking the Pill, and having sex, and a woman taking the morning after pill? They both contain the same hormones, just in different amounts. They are both valid contraception methods. They both require the same sort of level of planning ahead (i.e. 72 hours). They both result in a perhaps fertilised egg getting flushed.

 

Personally I see no problem with "killing" something less conscious than a housefly or the bacteria on a cloth that I wipe the table with, and far less able to survive. For me, the debate is, quite clearly, when does that useless mass of a cell or two become important. I say it is before birth, as a newborn is conscious of it's surroundings, and able to respond.

 

The UK limit for late term abortions is 24 weeks, and about 87% of all UK abortions are before 12 weeks. The legal limit for most abortions was reduced from 28 weeks to 24 weeks in 1990 because some babies now survive at 24 weeks. Of course, this is only with intensive care. With a pair of doctors in agreement, for the health of the mother, abortions after 24 weeks are still allowed. I'm not sure I agree with that, as the baby is quite human by this point, and probably 90% of the way to being sentient. Of course, in the few late-term abortion cases, the issue is normally that the baby *isn't* 90% of the way to being more than a vegatable.

 

It's a deep subject, and a short post on an internet forum isn't going to help one way or the other. I can't ever get pregnant, so it isn't a choice I will ever have to make, unless I wind up in an episode of House.

[Edge]

the woman shouldn't want to kill the baby. :lol:

what's wrong with these women? :hihi:

they make out like having a baby is the worst thing possible. :lol:

when in fact it is the most amazing thing that can happen to a mother, or parents. :)

It's not about killing it, it's about not having a baby that is a product of force. Do you think that pregnacy is just as simple as saying: well, I just wait 9 months and that's it. No, it involves much more. Women lose their jobs for that, they have to change their lifestyle and it's not anything.

 

And you think that we are implying that she should forcefully abort it? No, we are saying that she should have that decision. She can leave the baby for adoption, granted. However, what about her job? What about her other duties?

 

Now, if the baby is product of an intentional sex intercourse, then yes, I'm with you, it would be irresponsible.

 

And you seem to think that the raper is innocent of this. I don't see it as fair that a woman should be forced to have a baby thanks to a pervert's fault.

 

You don't seem to want to understand or something at least.

[HydrogenBond]

The bible also says, everything creates by God is good ,nothing is to be rejected, it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. I am not pro smoking but science needs to step in a provide a better way to determine who is and is not a risk. Studies of the statistical nature do not apply to everyone but often create the illusion that they do and try to reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator.

 

Let me give an example. There are many people who are lactose intolerant. Some people get sick and other can die from lactose. But many are not. If we reduce everyone down to the lowest common denominator, one would have to hide in the basement of an inner city building to enjoy an ice cream cone. Science stepped in, and developed a screening tool that identifies and protects the vulnerable while allowing those not vulnerable to still enjoy and eat milk, cheese and ice cream. There is no law, no crime and no self righteousness. But the vulnerable are protected.

[goku]

So, goku, if you got home from work to find the door smashed down and your wife brutally gang raped, with injuries so serious she was left in a wheelchair for life, you would be perfectly ok with that?

:hihi: and if i ever found the bastards that done it, i'd kill'em with my bare hands.

When you later find out she is pregnant, would you think it was yours? Would you raise the child as your own? Without ever knowing? Would you treat it exactly the same as your other kids?

yep, not saying that i am the perfect father, i'd do my best.

 

When the baby is born the wrong colour, or it gets old enough to learn what happened, and gets a DNA test, or perhaps it just notices it has the wrong colour eyes, or you notice the cleft chin... Would that sway your feelings in any way?

:lol:

 

Say he grows up to be just like his daddy... :lol:

once a man or woman, he or she would have to make his or her own decisions

[goku]

And you seem to think that the raper is innocent of this. I don't see it as fair that a woman should be forced to have a baby thanks to a pervert's fault.

i have many theories on how to cure rapists, each with much pain and suffering.

[goku]

sorry about that killin with my bare hands thing. it's just when i think about something like that happening, i see red. but i do mean it.

[Edge]

i have many theories on how to cure rapists, each with much pain and suffering.

Yeah, OK. That doesn't change the fact that the woman on this hypothetical case has now a totally undeserved and undesired pregnacy. That's why I give her the right to decide.

 

That's my opinion... I respect yours.

[goku]

Yeah, OK. That doesn't change the fact that the woman on this hypothetical case has now a totally undeserved and undesired pregnacy. That's why I give her the right to decide.

 

That's my opinion... I respect yours.

okay :hihi:

[rockytriton]

one more question goku, suppose that this did happen to your wife (God forbid of course) but if it did happen, what would you do if she found out that she was pregnant and knew that this evil rapist was the father, what would you do if she said that she will not have the baby and that she will get an abortion?