rockytriton Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 If abortion becomes murder, it will keep growing and growing until eventually a woman who has a miscarriage will be considered a murderer because she worked during her pregnancy and it is agreed to have caused harm to the baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 If abortion becomes murder, it will keep growing and growing until eventually a woman who has a miscarriage will be considered a murderer because she worked during her pregnancy and it is agreed to have caused harm to the baby. Abortion has malice (damage to living thing) and premeditation. If a woman *forces* herself to miscarry somehow, then I suppose she could be tried, but if it is caused by things beyond her control, and she wasn't doing anything abnormally dangerous, then it couldn't be murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 If I'm reading this right, Freethinker, then you agree that a minority of abortions are murder of humans?INTENT. Yes I would agree that if the INTENT of the person causing the abortion is to kill what will be an actual living human, it might be considered murder. e.g. a person brutely attacks a woman that is close to term with the specific intent of killing the fetus, I think this could be considered legal case for murder. Much like the bible's ONLY comment regarding abortion, except it is not the father that gets to decide. However let there be no misunderstanding. there is not any science behind the claim that an early term zygote can be assigned human personage. As such, Government can not ethically invent a law saying otherwise. And in general I have no problem with early term abortion as a 2ndary method of birth control. And no I do not have a clear cut line as to when a late term abortion would cross that line. And as science has none either, it MUST be left up to the mother who may wish to include any medical resources in making that determination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 So, the father gets no say in it? If the mother wants to have an abortion, and the father wants to keep the child, he has no say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 if a human egg is fertilized by a human sperm, how is this not an embryonic Homo SAPIENS?Obviously the determination of what is and what is not a homo sapien sapien is based on the genetic DNA makeup. There is merely a couple of % diff even amoungst human and other close primate relatives. Thus there is a very small range of DNA mutations that are still within homo sapien sapien grouping. "genetic abnormalities are probably responsible for a considerable part of (natural abortions) (Hall, Elizabeth. "When Does Life Begin? An Embryologist Looks at the Abortion Debate.")" Thus these mutant zygotes are far enough off of the acceptable range of what is homo sapien sapien that the mother's body rejects and aborts it as alien matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questor Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 FREETHINKER.. you said ''Obviously the determination of what is and what is not a homo sapien sapien is based on the genetic DNA makeup.'' what kind of genetic makeup would you conclude two human beings contribute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 FREETHINKER.. you said ''Obviously the determination of what is and what is not a homo sapien sapien is based on the genetic DNA makeup.'' what kind of genetic makeup would you conclude two human beings contribute?That's not the issue, The issue is what is the genetic makeup of the results of the combination of those two individuals. Obviously, MOST of the time, the resultant genetics is so far outside of acceptable range as to be outright rejected by the human host. Since one of the "tests" of species type is ability to procreate, that particular genetic combination didn't pass the homo sapien sapien species test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted November 23, 2005 Report Share Posted November 23, 2005 Abortion has malice (damage to living thing) and premeditation. If a woman *forces* herself to miscarry somehow, then I suppose she could be tried, but if it is caused by things beyond her control, and she wasn't doing anything abnormally dangerous, then it couldn't be murder.So only PROactive actions count? It would be just as malicious and premeditated if the woman did not do something she was supposed to. Why are you claiming only PROactive? Not also REactive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 So only PROactive actions count? It would be just as malicious and premeditated if the woman did not do something she was supposed to. Why are you claiming only PROactive? Not also REactive? I'm not quite sure what you mean here, could you explain it a little differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 So now you say that the fertilized egg is not a child? So when does the conceived become a child? I thought you previously claimed this happened at conception.i think you missed the point.zygote is just a word, a word created by scientists. the word does not change anything.before the word zygote there was nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted November 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Just out of curiosity, has anyone here changed their views on this topic due to reading posts on this thread?my view hasn't changed, but i now see the problem as being bigger than i could have ever imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 seems to me that if the fetus is formed from human cells, that would make it human.we kill plantswe kill germswe kill animalswe kill each otherbut we abort babies? what's wrong with this picture?i think abortion is a word of convience used to cover what is really happening. and i think that you are a bit rediculous, because i bet you would say different if you were in a situation where you would need to get an abortion... :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 my view hasn't changed, but i now see the problem as being bigger than i could have ever imagined. What's the problem? People don't agreeing with you? or you refusing to accept others' opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 What's the problem? People don't agreeing with you? or you refusing to accept others' opinions? haha. he has a point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 and i think that you are a bit rediculous, because i bet you would say different if you were in a situation where you would need to get an abortion... :evil:What kind of situation would that be? One that threatened to ruin my social lifestyle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted November 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 What's the problem?cultural devaluing of life, i think. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 cultural devaluing of life, i think. B)And you think that's new? By the way, the Morning After Pill prevents the pregnacy. So, yes, I favor it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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