Hypocrisy of non-smokers

[bumab]

We don't have a non-smoking ban in town (on bars), yet many bars market as non-smoking locations, and they do well. It's not just a lack of legislation- if enough demand a smoke free setting, you'll get one. It's legal for a private property owner to not allow smoking in his/her bar.

[Tormod]

T- I think that data is terrible, and should probably be significantly discounted.

...

It is patently ludicrous to contend that non-smokers incur the same damage that smokers do.

 

Thank you.

 

My doctors have - since they began studying asthma in the early 70ies (I was a guinea pig) - long since concluded that there is a direct correlation between my mother's smoking while I was still in the womb and also from living in a smoke-filled home as a toddler, to my development of chronic asthma bronchiale which was discovered when I was 13 months old.

 

Call it ludicrous as much as you want. I have to live with it all my life.

[Tormod]

Sure you can. People do it all the time. I have had people ask me not to smoke in a public place, and I stop. I think people are overly paranoiud about it (and often a little rude) but I stop puffing on my cigar anyway.

 

I frankly don't think you have the faintest clue as to what the harmful effects of smoke (active and passive) are. You wilfully push it onto others to humbly ask you to stop smoking. Now THAT is hypocrisy, my friend.

[Tormod]

I for no real reason can see why people wish to ban smoking in bars. Stop one thing that is bad for you to do another??? Get over it.

 

It is interesting to see how the arguments from smokers/those in favor of smoking tend to be similar to the creationist discussions. Suddenly all the fallacies of argumentation are allowed?

 

1) Fact: Smoking in bars is harmful to a) those who work there :) those who smoke and c) those who don't smoke. It doesn't matter what reason is given for smoking, nor what reason is given for not wanting others to smoke when it comes to that fact.

 

2) Fact: Placing a ban on smoking is not the same as placing a ban on alcohol

 

3) Fact: There are people who cannot go to bars because they are allergic to smoke

 

3b) Fact: There are people who cannot go to bars because their spouse/kids are allergic to smoke

 

3c) Fact: There are people whose spouse/kids get sick because their spouse/parent regularly comes home from a bar with clothes reeking of cigarette smoke

 

4) Fact: Bars survive without smoking

 

And: Prove to me that you need to smoke in order to have a beer, as you imply above.

 

This is getting ridiculous.

[infamous]

It is interesting to see how the arguments from smokers/those in favor of smoking tend to be similar to the creationist discussions. Suddenly all the fallacies of argumentation are allowed?

 

1) Fact: Smoking in bars is harmful to a) those who work there :) those who smoke and c) those who don't smoke. It doesn't matter what reason is given for smoking, nor what reason is given for not wanting others to smoke when it comes to that fact.

 

2) Fact: Placing a ban on smoking is not the same as placing a ban on alcohol

 

3) Fact: There are people who cannot go to bars because they are allergic to smoke

 

3b) Fact: There are people who cannot go to bars because their spouse/kids are allergic to smoke

 

3c) Fact: There are people whose spouse/kids get sick because their spouse/parent regularly comes home from a bar with clothes reeking of cigarette smoke

 

4) Fact: Bars survive without smoking

 

And: Prove to me that you need to smoke in order to have a beer, as you imply above.

 

This is getting ridiculous.

I agree with your take on this Tormod; when I order a drink, I expect to drink it myself. When I sit in a bar and breath in others tobacco smoke, I'm helping them smoke their cigarette. I'd prefer that they,d smoke their own, I really don't want to participate in their bad habit.

[Tormod]

when I order a drink, I expect to drink it myself.

 

I prefer to spill it about a bit, so that all my friends and some passers-bys get a little bit of my drink on them. Of course, if someone comes up and asks me to stop, I will obey (however stupid I may think it is).

[sanctus]

Sure you can. People do it all the time. I have had people ask me not to smoke in a public place, and I stop. I think people are overly paranoiud about it (and often a little rude) but I stop puffing on my cigar anyway.

 

 

I guess that's the reason why I statrted thinking its hypocrisy, they put so much energy into it (many really get upset,... what is worse?), while a normal discussion could do as well.

[sanctus]

Now reading all your answers, I just want to say some things:

1) My eyes burn as well when I'm in a bar...after half an hour only.

2)Now , that I sometimes smoke I either smoke outside (we live in 5 and there are 1.5 smokers I'm the .5, so we don't smoke inside) or in open places.

 

Now, I don't agree that some of you say something against smoking in the open simply because in that case the smog is worse (unless maybe the smokers smokes you right in the face, but in that case I would also get as upset as all the non-smokers)

 

3) What I don't like in all those bannings is that it is the state that imposes something, for me a bar should be able to decide if they want a smoking bar or not.

[Fishteacher73]

I think it is one thing to smoke in allowed areas, in public it is just the same. I have no problem making sure I am away from others in outdoor areas when I smoke. Yet if I am smoking AWAY from people, I think it is not coutesy to come over then complain. If I am in an area w/ non-smokers I do not smoke. I don't go over to a non-smoking section and ask people to start, so I think it is a bit rude to come over in an acceptable smoking area and ask me not to.

[tarak]

I think smokers are the greatest hypocrats on this planet.I have been one for a period of nearly ten years before i quit.Nicotine is something that has very obvious and conspicuous effects on health and is a highly addictive chemical which causes complex problems to ones health.Even though a smoker starts out with curiosity ,over a period of time he does understand that tobacco associated addiction effects physical and mental health.But helplessness prevails most of the times.I feel alcoholic rehabilitaion is a little bit easier compared to smoking.(Of course alcohol and cigarette is a deadly combination).

Knowing fully well that tobacco takes control over the mind and body,smokers develop a hypocratic state of mind which justifies their activity by any means possible.I strongly feel that in most cases smoking is taken up on a long run to bridge the gap of an individual's what is and what ought to be kind of perception.It is an ultimate hypocrisy wherein the smoker instead of developing a holistic awareness of his existence seeks a shortcut mood alteration to enjoy an assumption.

The smog and pollution thing is altogether a different problem which has to do with the larger hypocrisy of humankind.

[sanctus]

Tarak I don't understand why you think smokers are hypocrite?

[niviene]

I think smokers are the greatest hypocrats on this planet

 

I don't get it either... what exactly is it that makes smokers hypocrits, in your opinion? I didn't get it from your post.

 

I also would like to know why you feel that alcohol rehabilitation is easier than smoking. I have two alcoholics in my family - one who is trying to rehabilitate himself and one who has tried and failed many times and seems to have given up. As a former smoker myself, I was able to quit one day cold turkey, but I know that many struggle with it for years. So, I would like to know if something in your experience has shown you that smoking is harder, or if you have done research which suggests it, because I am curious. Also, some studies suggest that certain moderate alcohol consumption can be beneficial to health - I don't see anywhere where it says a cigarette or two for some people does the same. And, I've heard that overcoming nicotine addictions is actually harder than overcoming heroin addictions (although I do find that hard to believe, having seen people going through withdrawal - and my source may not be reliable on the subject, so I'd really be interested in knowing if there is any truth to this).

 

I agree with you, Fishteacher. As a smoker, I smoked away from others. Now, I stay away from smokers. I don't go looking for the problem just so I can complain, as it seems many people do. I think those who go looking for employment in a bar know that smoking is involved with the job. Congrats to the bars who choose not to allow smoking - I think it should be their own decision. I think more and more places will spring up that dont' allow smoking, as people become more aware of their health and want to be free from smoke and still have a place to go out dancing, but I think that forcing it on every establishment in the city is a little overboard. I am thinking of how I would feel if I started up a business and put my own money and sweat into it, and then was told I had to change things. I would be thinking... "screw you, pal." (that's the new york in me :hyper:)

[bumab]

Washington Department of Health has started gearing up a smoke-free workplace initiative that would make it illegal to smoke anywhere inside (except your own house of course). I chose not to sign that initiative about a year ago, and again about 3 years ago, because I do think it's up to business owners to run their place however they want.

 

How can a state agency fund an initiative? It sounds a little fishy to me.

[infamous]

I think smokers are the greatest hypocrats on this planet.I have been one for a period of nearly ten years before i quit.

 

I'm a little confused tarak, you say that you smoked for nearly ten years before quiting. I can relate to this part of your posted reply because I smoked for almost thirty five years before I quit. But what I'm a little confused about is, why would you make a statement like this,"I think smokers are the greatest hypocrits on this planet". Smoking may be a bad habit but I don't really think it makes one a hypocrite. Could you please explain why you feel this way before the smoking membership of Hypography all gang up on you.

[tarak]

What is hypocrisy?

Hypocrisy id pretension,insincerity,the act of pretending to have beliefs, virtues and feelings that one does not truly possess.Okay smoking is a pleasure and at some point of time we do know that it hurts us.Atleast it reduces our physical efficiency,still we pretend that we are fine and justify to our selves that nothing is going to happen (atleast to oneself).what do you call this?

I call this pure hypocrisy.A smoker is not true to his own self.He/she cheats him/herself and yet pretends that he is fine and nothing is going to happen.I feel this more and more strongly in the present day world,to the average smoker and not the super hero who smokes and is still fine.

[tarak]

dear nivienne,

Smoking and drinking are both addictions.I donot have any research based findings here nor I know the mode of action of these substances,but I understand that both these substances function based on two different mechanisms of stimualting human psyche.

Like coffee and tea,nicotine enervates and adrenalizes an individual to a pleasurable mood and a kind of urging/craving situation develops on a periodical basis like a slow poison.there is no immediate rush to stop this if you are lucky.thats why we see 60 to 70 year olds happily enjoing the cigar.No need to give up either!!! The problems crop up only when lungs become plastic and bronchioles get inflammated.

I feel alcohol has a more complex hijacking kind of effect,which makes a person realize how helpless one becomes if he crosses the limit.So you are put on a rehab and have to get back to survive.

 

(Any docs,physiologists do enlighten on the modus operandi of addiction phenomenon?)

[infamous]

What is hypocrisy?

Hypocrisy id pretension,insincerity,the act of pretending to have beliefs, virtues and feelings that one does not truly possess.Okay smoking is a pleasure and at some point of time we do know that it hurts us.Atleast it reduces our physical efficiency,still we pretend that we are fine and justify to our selves that nothing is going to happen (atleast to oneself).what do you call this?

I call this pure hypocrisy.A smoker is not true to his own self.He/she cheats him/herself and yet pretends that he is fine and nothing is going to happen.I feel this more and more strongly in the present day world,to the average smoker and not the super hero who smokes and is still fine.

Never once in all the years that I smoked did I ever assume that it was good for my health. Never did I try to justify it as a wholesume activity, to the contrary, I was well aware that this habit was stealing my life away. Making bad choices concerning ones health is one thing, being hypocritical is quite another. Being hypocritical is trying to justify for one's self what he finds condemning for another. You haven't made any progress with your definition yet, maybe you need to try again.