Smokinjoe9 Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Pay no attention to UA, there will always be an " I told you so" until it happens then they will find you a reason it works, that is what smart people do...I am not smart enough to say either way, but I would guess with the exception of parts wearing out, someone will make it happen.Just because the current theory of thermal dynamics says' it can't be done doesn't mean it can't...go back in time and have a look at what was said couldn't be done. That alone should give you all the more reason to do it...I have thought about it and even done a few experiments, as I am sure I will do some more, but, the forces of nature are hard to beat. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokinjoe9 Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Nor are the zillion contraptions that people try to build with magnets since magnets even lose their fields eventually. That is true, but like the solor system there are magnets that will outlast centuries and centuries of us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantum quack Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 Pay no attention to UA, there will always be an " I told you so" until it happens then they will find you a reason it works, that is what smart people do...I am not smart enough to say either way, but I would guess with the exception of parts wearing out, someone will make it happen.Just because the current theory of thermal dynamics says' it can't be done doesn't mean it can't...go back in time and have a look at what was said couldn't be done. That alone should give you all the more reason to do it...I have thought about it and even done a few experiments, as I am sure I will do some more, but, the forces of nature are hard to beat. :shrug: What I was suggesting was that it can be done but it will only be done if it works within the laws of conservation etc.... movement or energy out put must be necessary as an outcome of those laws. but it is disputable whether they would fall within the narrow definition of a PPM as Buffy is trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted May 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 ...Nor are the zillion contraptions that people try to build with magnets since magnets even lose their fields eventually... That's why I suggested *Super conductive* magnets, as long as they are cold enough they will never lose their field strength. I just need a way to keep them at near absolute zero (0 degrees K), I think they just need to be at -244 degrees C as of right now though, and -278.06 dgrees C is absolute zero I think. If super conductivity were able to be achieved at room temperature does anyone think my invention stands a chance of working? My Grandpa thought that the magnets would find a certain place of "equilibrium" and eventually come to a rest, and I argued that since the magnets are tilted at near 45 degrees they will constantly be propelling in opposing directions and with the force of gravity to drive them down on one another and maintain a needed amount of pressure, the magnets would not be able to come to a rest. He shrugged his shoulders :note:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 That's why I suggested *Super conductive* magnets,...If super conductivity were able to be achieved at room temperature does anyone think my invention stands a chance of working?On Pluto maybe? :note: I guess I'm always facinated by the magnet-based PMMs because they basically assume that there's no "friction" because there's nothing "rubbing" but actually while they are really "slick" compared to ballbearings with lots of WD-40, they still aren't "frictionless" because magentism pulls as well as pushes, and if the field has any variation at all, these things slow down and halt pretty darn quick in practice. You minimize your friction, but its still there.... Cheers,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted May 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 I think I have a way to overcome this little gremlin in the mechanics by using twenty super-conductive magnets laid down at 36° (ten on the ground or other support and ten above those) and they would be tilted like a back-slash ( / ) at somewhere between 15°-45° (probably closer to 45) , they would also be slightly overlapping each other. The magnets would need to be cooled to maintain super conductivity(at least right now they need to be, but not for long!...) by something or other (suggestions?), and one of the levels of the magnets (I was thinking the upper one) would also be connected by some sort of steel or metal (I was thinking Platinum or Titanium) rod in the center of both the levels (upper and lower) of magnets and the rod would rotate as the opposite magnetic fields of the magnets perpetually propelled them away from one another. This rotation could then be used to obtain some sort of energy after being transferred to a generator of some sort, the energy, I'm assuming, would probably be electric but it may be kinetic, and transferred to somewhere or something else. Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted May 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 If everything were measured exactly down to the milimeter or micrometer in my version of a Perpetual Motion Device there would be no friction, at least until I tried to tap the machine for power and connect a conveyor belt from the rod to a generator or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokinjoe9 Posted May 20, 2005 Report Share Posted May 20, 2005 On Pluto maybe? :note: I guess I'm always facinated by the magnet-based PMMs because they basically assume that there's no "friction" because there's nothing "rubbing" but actually while they are really "slick" compared to ballbearings with lots of WD-40, they still aren't "frictionless" because magentism pulls as well as pushes, and if the field has any variation at all, these things slow down and halt pretty darn quick in practice. You minimize your friction, but its still there.... Cheers,BuffyI totally agree, the friction is a real problem...Where do we get the power to overcome that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Even if a magnet powered a machine for a 1000 millenia it would not be a perpetual motion machine. I think several people in this thread should visit Wikipedia's article on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAKER Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Even if a magnet powered a machine for a 1000 millenia it would not be a perpetual motion machine. I think several people in this thread should visit Wikipedia's article on this.The question is not; "will it really work forever?" - but can it be done at all for the durration of a standard magnet's lifespan? I think so. But mine doesn't work either - yet.:note: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAKER Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 My own design, or should I say designs, are not attempting to fight friction. They are not attempting to nullify the laws of thermodynamics; but rather work with them, using magnetic feilds to enhance the momentum of an object in motion. - But that's not supposed to be possible either. Neither was flight; the light bulb, or any one of a thousand examples they used to say couldn't be done which are now commonplace for all of us. Even if it really is impossible, I'd rather be the guy who tried to do it than the guy who scoffed at the notion and did nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokinjoe9 Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 My own design, or should I say designs, are not attempting to fight friction. They are not attempting to nullify the laws of thermodynamics; but rather work with them, using magnetic feilds to enhance the momentum of an object in motion. - But that's not supposed to be possible either. Neither was flight; the light bulb, or any one of a thousand examples they used to say couldn't be done which are now commonplace for all of us. Even if it really is impossible, I'd rather be the guy who tried to do it than the guy who scoffed at the notion and did nothing. I'm also working on it..It does seem impossible, but that is why I'm working on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeleMad Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 BEAKER: Even if it really is impossible, I'd rather be the guy who tried to do it than the guy who scoffed at the notion and did nothing. Not me, I'd rather be the guy who did something that had a chance of succeeding. I'd rather be the guy who didn't waste tons of his time trying to do the impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gregory Czuhai Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 SOMEONE MIGHT BE INTERESTED in the FACT that the USA patent office will NOTgive a patent to ANY PERPETUAL MOTION DEVICE !!! this is true !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAKER Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 Not me, I'd rather be the guy who did something that had a chance of succeeding. I'd rather be the guy who didn't waste tons of his time trying to do the impossible.Go with the flow.:note: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike89 Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 i was kind of wondering if the idea of using magnets would be perpetual at all, because wouldnt the the magnets be exerting energy in when the magnet radiates its magnetic force? and i thought in order for something to be perpetual it would have to never lose any energy... i am not but just let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted May 21, 2005 Report Share Posted May 21, 2005 i was kind of wondering if the idea of using magnets would be perpetual at all, because wouldnt the the magnets be exerting energy in when the magnet radiates its magnetic force? and i thought in order for something to be perpetual it would have to never lose any energy... i am not but just let me knowBasically it is very simple, energy is neither created or destroyed. A machine cannot reuse the energy it begins with forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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