Is Bible history fact or fiction?

[Tormod]

Isn't it interesting how prized the intellectual moniker is? It is supposed to mean that hey are capable of thinking for themselves and are open to diversity of opinion, but they tend to be close-minded and have quite a lot of lemming-like qualities.

 

That is an interesting view. I'd like to ask, "As opposed to who?"

 

Would you suggest that these forums are not populated by people who are able to think for themselves? Or are we an intellectual-free zone?

[Queso]

i for one, am a lemming. i didn't even just write that. i am not writing this right now. nor am i aware that i am writing. i am not even aware that i am. what is i?

[Freethinker]

Oh, great CaptiveNonthinker-

I've seen much better attempts around here.

Perhaps you could revisit stats 101 and recall the difference between correlation and causality. That fact that intelligence and non-theism are correlated says nothgin about causality.

Perhaps you could visit comprehension skills 101? Please show anywhere where I claimed a causal relationship between IQ/ education and non-theistic philosophy. My EXACT comment, which you even quoted was:

statistical correlation between IQ and lack of theistic belief.

.

 

We can spend more time discussing the actual subject if you respond to what I ACTUALLY post, rather than what you WISHED I had posted.

 

Now will you supply data to support your claim or be honest enough to admit you do not have any. Here it is again to make it easy for you:

 

Please show us verifyable statistical data showing your claimed arrogance to non-theism correlation...

[Freethinker]

Yes, of course. What did you think?

Ah yes. At least you are aligned with my kids and my girlfriend (Fiancee as of a week ago!) It is always my fault. :-)

[Skippy]

That is an interesting view. I'd like to ask, "As opposed to who?"

 

Would you suggest that these forums are not populated by people who are able to think for themselves? Or are we an intellectual-free zone?

As opposed to no one in general. I didn't say Christians, Jews, Muslims, Environmentalists, Evolutionists or any other religious follower had an open mind toward other religious viewpoints, I just plainly stated that "Intellectuals" believe they have cornered the market on inclusion, diversity and intelligence, but they are the first to demand allegiance to their beliefs.

 

Also, I believe I was clear on this point to: Intellectualism does not necessarily equate to Intelligience. I wish this could be an intellectual free zone, then some real, honest discussion could happen.

 

I would suggest that a blind allegiance to an unprovable premise is anti-intellectual - that is your belief as it relates to having faith in God, is it not? Your religion (evolution) is no more scientifically provable than mine is.

[Erasmus00]

I would suggest that a blind allegiance to an unprovable premise is anti-intellectual - that is your belief as it relates to having faith in God, is it not? Your religion (evolution) is no more scientifically provable than mine is.

 

By your own deffinition, belief in god is anti-intellectual (blind allegiance to an unprovable premise).

 

I disagree with your assertion that evolution is a religion. Evolution as an explanatory model is quite impressive. It explains why the DNA of yeast is so close to the DNA of humans, why hawaii has less species and why flightless birds live there, etc, etc. Scientist except evolution because of how well it explains modern observations (not to mention the overwhelming evidence in support, a quick google search turns up http://talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-mustread.html which has loads of support for evolution. Before you go around ranting about unproven "religion" of evolution, I suggest some reading)

 

Faith in God, on the other hand, is NOT scientific. It has no explanatory power whatsoever, unless you count "God did that." If a physicist asserted that the real method for gravity was god pushing on everything, most would realize thats not really a scientific explanation. And yet, when biologists attempt to remove God from their field, creationist cry foul, screaming "NO! GOD DID IT!" and they expect such an argument to carry weight.

-Will

[Dago]

But evolution as a process in nature is accepted as a scientific fact.

 

Who has accepted this as fact? Athiests and Agnostics.

Evolution is nothing more than another religion. You have to believe that you do not believe. The only evolution ever witnessed is within the same species. Why do evolutionists wrap it up in one big package and try to make people swallow it? Give me one example of macro evolution. That is a animal changing species. YOU CAN'T! You can only come up with theories which is nothing more than educated guesses. Nothing you can scientifically prove as fact. Your only method is to say...."Well I'm a scientist so I say it's fact!" :eek:

 

I mean.....Chistianity and Evolution are both just theories. Neither side can prove 100% that the other is false. The only differance is one "theory" has existed since mankind could write. The other is just newer theory. And let's think about this now. Which theory offers an ounce of justification when you die? For the Evolutionists.....That's all she wrote! When you die, your plant food. Everything you worked for and learned is gone.....forever. Christians get to go to Heaven and live an eternal life with their creator.

 

Think about this too....

 

Christians have The Ten Commandments. Evolutionists have Survival of the Fittest.

 

Which guidelines do you hope your neighbours follow?

 

I mean....Christians have to answer to God for thier Crimes. Evolutionists have noone to answer to but the flawed laws of man.

 

http://www.drdino.com/downloads.php

I would advise you to go visit this site and download some of these videos and siminars.

[Tormod]

As opposed to no one in general. I didn't say Christians, Jews, Muslims, Environmentalists, Evolutionists or any other religious follower had an open mind toward other religious viewpoints

 

This is a good strawman argument - draw the discussion away from what the topic is. Environmentalists and evolutionists are not religious followers.

 

I just plainly stated that "Intellectuals" believe they have cornered the market on inclusion, diversity and intelligence, but they are the first to demand allegiance to their beliefs.

 

This is a generalization that requires backup of some kind. What gives you a basis for saying this about all intellectuals? I frankly don't think you even know what the term means.

 

Also, I believe I was clear on this point to: Intellectualism does not necessarily equate to Intelligience. I wish this could be an intellectual free zone, then some real, honest discussion could happen.

 

Since I do not think intelligence is quantifiable I will agree to the first sentence. But to ask for an "intellectual free zone" is a dangerous position to take. You are lining up with some of the darkest powers in human history.

 

I would suggest that a blind allegiance to an unprovable premise is anti-intellectual - that is your belief as it relates to having faith in God, is it not? Your religion (evolution) is no more scientifically provable than mine is.

 

Evolution is my religion? What do you know about my religion? I don't know what yours is.

 

But I do know that we are discussing this at a science site. Evolution is an accepted science. Religion is not. Science and religion belong to two different realms.

 

We can study evolution and trace life back billions of years on our planet. We cannot do the same with religion.

[Tormod]

Chistianity and Evolution are both just theories. Neither side can prove 100% that the other is false.

 

Religion is not a theory. You also seem to forget that there are other religions than Christianity.

 

The only differance is one "theory" has existed since mankind could write.

 

Funny that you should say this. The Christian faith has existed for less than 2,000 years. People could write long before that time.

 

Or perhaps we should ask the Sumatrans what they believed in. Or the Egyptians? Or the ancient Greeks?

 

Which theory offers an ounce of justification when you die? For the Evolutionists.....That's all she wrote! When you die, your plant food. Everything you worked for and learned is gone.....forever. Christians get to go to Heaven and live an eternal life with their creator.

 

This is right out ridiculous. Your view of Christianity is interesting. Do you think it is some kind of freeway to Heaven? I think even fellow Christians in this forum will disagree with you. Christians have to accept their saviour, prove their faith, and seek absolution for their sins.

 

Christians have The Ten Commandments. Evolutionists have Survival of the Fittest.

 

I think you don't know what you are talking about.

 

I mean....Christians have to answer to God for thier Crimes.

 

...and the police. And their fellow citizens. And themselves and their dog. Just like everyone else.

 

Evolutionists have noone to answer to but the flawed laws of man.

 

How do they do this? Who judges them? Should we drive them out of this world with sticks and stones?

[Dago]

Funny that you should say this. The Christian faith has existed for less than 2,000 years. People could write long before that time.

 

Don't play ignorant.....I'm sure you know the history of Christianity and are aware that it began with the Old Testament and continued into the New Testament.

 

This is right out ridiculous. Your view of Christianity is interesting. Do you think it is some kind of freeway to Heaven? I think even fellow Christians in this forum will disagree with you. Christians have to accept their saviour, prove their faith, and seek absolution for their sins.

 

I was making a general statement....not re-explaining to you how the process works. Which you "studied" about I'm sure.

 

I think you don't know what you are talking about.

 

I know exactly what I'm talking about and you see the polution of the lie of evolution every day. Evolution is nothing but a made up reason on how the universe was created without divine intervention. There are not morals or standards to guide your life by. Evolution is also True Racisim. The entire fairy tale of how man evolved from lesser lifeforms gives the impression that some people are better than others.

 

Show me proof of macro evolution!

[Tormod]

Don't play ignorant.....I'm sure you know the history of Christianity and are aware that it began with the Old Testament and continued into the New Testament.

 

Who is ignorant? Jesus was born a Jew, Dago.

 

Evolution is nothing but a made up reason on how the universe was created without divine intervention.

 

Evolutionary theory says nothing about the universe.

 

Evolution is also True Racisim. The entire fairy tale of how man evolved from lesser lifeforms gives the impression that some people are better than others.

 

Evolution shows where humanity comes from. It does not distinguish between people.

 

Show me proof of macro evolution!

 

Look in the mirror, my friend.

[Erasmus00]

I know exactly what I'm talking about and you see the polution of the lie of evolution every day. Evolution is nothing but a made up reason on how the universe was created without divine intervention. There are not morals or standards to guide your life by. Evolution is also True Racisim. The entire fairy tale of how man evolved from lesser lifeforms gives the impression that some people are better than others.

 

Show me proof of macro evolution!

 

A bit about macroevolution http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macroevolution.html And also intermediate fossil forms http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html that demonstrate speciation.

 

Also, it is possible to have ethics without religion. Read Kant's Metaphysics of Morals if you can stand the headache it will invariably cause.

-Will

[Biochemist]

You might want to check that before making the assertion.

Hmmm. I can tell you with 100% assurance that my impression of you was not what you stated.

[Boerseun]

Don't play ignorant.....I'm sure you know the history of Christianity and are aware that it began with the Old Testament and continued into the New Testament.

Ummm.... no. Actually, Judaism split into Christianity only after the birth of Christ, when some Jews saw Jesus as the Son of God, and the rest didn't. Christianity *evolved* (sorry, I know you don't like that word very much) out of Judaism.

I know exactly what I'm talking about...

YOU might. We're having difficulties, though...

...and you see the polution of the lie of evolution every day. Evolution is nothing but a made up reason on how the universe was created without divine intervention.

Once again, the Grand Misconception. Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with how the Universe was created.

There are not morals or standards to guide your life by.

Nobody said that any theory regarding the origins of Man or the Universe should include morals. This is the same as complaining about the new bicycle you bought 'cause it doesn't have a toaster mounted on the handlebars. The mere lack of morals in evolution theory only goes to illustrate human conceit that whatever doesn't suit us, must therefore be false. Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable, and the comforting tales we grew up with turns out to be lies. Now you have a choice: Live with the lie, or face up to the truth. Now there's a moral dilemma for you, seeing as morals is your thing.

 

Evolution is also True Racisim. The entire fairy tale of how man evolved from lesser lifeforms gives the impression that some people are better than others.

 

Show me proof of macro evolution!

(Drum roll...) Dago, old buddy old pal - I hate to break it to you, but some people are indeed better than others. Races, maybe not, but you did refer to individuals here, didn't you? Proof for evolution is available in a written format with big, colourful illustrations at your local library. Plenty. Wait - you're sitting in front of a computer, just google it. But remember - information is only as good as its source. You'll also get websites telling you the Earth is flat. You can ignore those. You'll get websites explaining the Great Flood. You can ignore those as well. Look at the URL - if it includes the name of a reputable 'varsity, you've got a go. If it goes something like http://www.jesusisking.hallelujah.com/evolutionsucks you can forget about it.

[Biochemist]

Let's be honest and say there is a lot of non-scientific evidence against Darwinism. There is not much scientific evidence against it.

Tormod, Darwin was a gradualist. Gradualism, as a general mechanism for speciation, is poorly supported by the fossil record. I think that fossil data counts as science, and also counts as significant evidence against Darwinism. PE, as a general mechanism, is at odds with Darwinism (gradualism) as a general mechanism. The conflict is unresolved, but it is reasonable to accept that Darwinism per se has some strikes against it.

[eMTee]

Supose, just supose if Noah's Ark was acualy found on Mt. Ararat...what would you think of that?

 

the "it will never happen" kind of answer I have had before, and well...I wasn't asking that just to have such a thaughtless reply. Imagine just for a moment that it was found.

[Boerseun]

Supose, just supose if Noah's Ark was acualy found on Mt. Ararat...what would you think of that?

 

the "it will never happen" kind of answer I have had before, and well...I wasn't asking that just to have such a thaughtless reply. Imagine just for a moment that it was found.

*IF* Noah's Ark was found on Mt. Ararat, I'll be amazed, frankly. Then, I'd want to go and measure the thing to see in what small space you can fit a breeding pair of all land animals. Then, I'd like to check the sailing dynamics, but that's besides the point.

 

This is a stupid question, to say the truth.

 

What if we find a parchment in ancient Hebrew tomorrow saying that Christianity is a hoax? - the "it will never happen" kind of answer I have had before, and well...I wasn't asking that just to have such a thoughtless reply. Imagine just for a moment that it was found.