Erasmus00 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Supose, just supose if Noah's Ark was acualy found on Mt. Ararat...what would you think of that? the "it will never happen" kind of answer I have had before, and well...I wasn't asking that just to have such a thaughtless reply. Imagine just for a moment that it was found. If you were to find an old boat on Mt. Ararat, how would you prove it was the ark? How would you prove it wasn't yet another hoax? If an ark were found, large enough to hold two of every animal and it passed certain scientific credibility checks, it would go a long way toward affirming the myth of the flood, though only perhaps a local flood and not a worldwide one. -Will niviene 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 *IF* Noah's Ark was found on Mt. Ararat, I'll be amazed, frankly. Then, I'd want to go and measure the thing to see in what small space you can fit a breeding pair of all land animals. Then, I'd like to check the sailing dynamics, but that's besides the point.This is a stupid question, to say the truth.What if we find a parchment in ancient Hebrew tomorrow saying that Christianity is a hoax? - the "it will never happen" kind of answer I have had before, and well...I wasn't asking that just to have such a thoughtless reply. Imagine just for a moment that it was found.--The ark didn't "sail" it floated while the water was high then it landed.--It has been established and agreed to in previous posts here that all Noah needed was a couple of pairs of horses, a couple of pairs of dogs, a couple of pairs of cows, etc. The Bible doesn't say Noah loaded a pair of dobermans, a pair of schnauzers, a pair of palominos and a pair of paints, it says "kinds of animals," a dog is a kind of animal as is a horse. The AKC traces many recognized pure-blood breeds back to the mastif, I'm sure the AQHA traces several horse breeds back to a common breed also. Inter-species mating has given us the wide variety we have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 RE: Evolution as FACTWho has accepted this as fact? Athiests and Agnostics.SCIENTISTS, ever heard of them? Possibly not from the rest of your reply. That the largest percent of the most highly regarded of them are not Theists shows as the most evident causality (yes NOW I am bringing causality into it) is their greater level of knowledge of the physical existence we live in. Evolution is nothing more than another religion.Only to those ignorant of what makes a religion a religion. THose wishing to invent a minimalizing marginalizing of something they can not attack with facts and reason. You fool no one but yourself. You have to believe that you do not believe. I believe your wrong. The only evolution ever witnessed is within the same species.Yes, from WITH-IN the SAME species, resulting in two DIFFERENT species, that IS what Speciation is after all. And if you are ignorant of the lab based speciation results, perhaps you should get an education on the subject before making incorrect assertions about it. Why do evolutionists wrap it up in one big package and try to make people swallow it?We learned it from the Wave/ Particle Dualists and Gravitaionalists. Give me one example of macro evolution.Actually I have posted a number of them on various forums here a number of times. As the factual scientific reports of them have been around for decades. Not that such messy things as FACTS ever get circulated in Creationist hovels. You can only come up with theories which is nothing more than educated guesses.Well at least you got the EDUCATED part correct. Oh ya, and the Guess of General Relativity, the Guess of Quantum Mechanics, The Gravitational Guess, The Germ Guess, The String Guess, the guess of plate tectonics, ... I mean.....Chistianity and Evolution are both just theories.Christianity is a THEORY? Based on what verifyable factual evidence. Ah so here goes, I just wish I was around to see the hoiuse of cards crumble once again as all efforts fail completely... As the specific subject topic is "Is Bible history fact or fiction?" let's start with the very basis of this historically void assertion. Provide ONE written verifyable eyewitness historical report that confirms the existence of the biblical Jesus the Christ, or even a specific personage for the myth to be based on! ONE!Neither side can prove 100% that the other is false. The only differance is one "theory" has existed since mankind could write.Once more showing your complete ignorance of factual history. The Jesus myth is far from being the first written resource. Nor is any of the bible itself. But once more, let's not let FACTS interfer with your ramblings. And let's think about this now. Which theory offers an ounce of justification when you die?OK, if we stretch the word Theory for the sake of discussion to include Christianity, I will give you this one. Christianity has far more direct correlation to people dying than Evolutionary theory. Far more people have been died/ been murdered by Christians following it's direct tenets than those that accept Evolution and science for guidance. http://www.drdino.com/downloads.php I would advise you to go visit this site and download some of these videos and siminars.Hahahaha, no thanks, I don;t bother with people that outright lie about virtually everything they say. Such as his claims to have been a high school teacher for 15 years. But can;' seem to name a single school for verification. Or the diploma mill he bought his degree from. Or other things he continues to lie about after being directly shown the correct info. Or his outright statement that he is ready to kill anyone if they cross his path incorrectly. Ya he's some reference source alright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 ___In reading just the last few posts regarding the flood, I have to say an extant written story predating the old testament the Epic of Gilgamesh has a flood story if I remember correctly. Indeed many of the themes in Gilgamesh echo in Old Testament stories.___I believe the Maya also have flood stories & a number of other ancient cultures as well. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Don't play ignorant.....I'm sure you know the history of Christianity and are aware that it began with the Old Testament and continued into the New Testament.Actually I Do know a lot about the history of Christianity, from your comments, more than you do it would seem. And NO it did NOT start with the OT. Christianity was aroound BEFORE the NT had been codified. In fact the Bible as Christians know it today did not exist until around 385, It was Iranius in the 2nd century that decided that there should be 4 gospels because there were 4 corners to the (flat) earth. The history of Christianity goes back centuries before the current NT was invented and the OT was incorporated into it. Show me proof of macro evolution!Prove that it didn't happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hmmm. I can tell you with 100% assurance that my impression of you was not what you stated.And had that been the discussion, I wold have responded differently. You really need to work on your comprehension skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dago Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Who is ignorant? Jesus was born a Jew, Dago.And Jesus died a Jew. The Jews are God's choosen people. Provide ONE written verifyable eyewitness historical report that confirms the existence of the biblical Jesus the Christ, or even a specific personage for the myth to be based on! ONE! The Holy Bible! Whether you like it or not, it is a historical document. I'm still waiting for this proof that macro evolution exists. Looking at some drawing in a book that somebody made up isn't proof either. Nor is looking into a mirror. When I look into a mirror, I see a man created in God's image. Not a monkey or a fish. All you have managed to do in this forum is resort to childish acts of insulting.SCIENTISTS, ever heard of them? Possibly not from the rest of your reply. Now that is a very expected statement when you cannot produce your own proof. Like it or not. Evolution IS a Religion and all your insults won't change that. Roughly 50% of the Scientists in the world don't buy marco evolution either but I'm sure you'll just discredit them or call them names. But don't mind me.....keep talking your lie and one day you might not need any proof to believe it. Oh wait......your already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Tormod, Darwin was a gradualist.Biochemist, I think we pcik too many nits when we start arguing about Darwiniam, punctuated equalibrium, ... version of Evolution while discussing the overall validity of Evolution as the Theory that best explains the diveristy of life on Earth. Creationists in their attempt to maintain their delusions like to use such open dialog as excuses to reject Evolutionary theory. They are either ignorant of the difference or intentionally use it to mislead their blind mice followers. Just as your and my arguing does. I for one am dropping it. I am sure we agree on things far more than we disagree. Of I am wrong, then I will start arguing with you again! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Supose, just supose if Noah's Ark was acualy found on Mt. Ararat...what would you think of that? Let' see, what if a completely impossible object was found where we already know it does not exist. Hmmmm. Would this be by David Copperield or Penn and Teller? I'd watch the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 What if we find a parchment in ancient Hebrew tomorrow saying that Christianity is a hoax? - the "it will never happen" kind of answer I have had before, and well...I wasn't asking that just to have such a thoughtless reply. Imagine just for a moment that it was found.I assume you mean the existing Scrolls from Nag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 --The ark didn't "sail" it floated while the water was high then it landed.OK, well first, not ALL the water disapeared obviously, so it would have to navigate in order to land. Fluid dynamics woould mave a boat AWAY from land masses that would appear as the water receded. But again, we don't want FACTS to get in the way of a fairy tale. --It has been established and agreed to in previous posts here that all Noah needed was a couple of pairs of horses, a couple of pairs of dogs, a couple of pairs of cows, etc.A couple of pairs of every species of creature on earth that ever existed would still require a vessle significantly larger than technology allows for today, much less back then. Nasty facts! Inter-species mating has given us the wide variety we have today.Oh ya? Please show us PROOF of "Inter-species mating". By defintion, species are different becasue they CAN'T have progeny. Man those facty thingies are such a nuisance to fantasy discussions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I disagree with your assertion that evolution is a religion. -WillThen you disagree with Webster's, not just me. religion - A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. - http://www.dictionary.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 ___In reading just the last few posts regarding the flood, I have to say an extant written story predating the old testament the Epic of Gilgamesh has a flood story if I remember correctly. Indeed many of the themes in Gilgamesh echo in Old Testament stories.___I believe the Maya also have flood stories & a number of other ancient cultures as well. :eek:Yes since it is only logical that civilizations, esp the earliest ones, develop around water resources, that many would have some form of flood story. But none of this supports a world flood myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Please show us PROOF of "Inter-species mating". By defintion, species are different becasue they CAN'T have progeny. :eek: Note: Your argument is with http://www.dictionary.com (which is Webster's Unabridged Dictionary) : species - A fundamental category of taxonomic classification, ranking below a genus or subgenus and consisting of related organisms capable of interbreeding. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasmus00 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I'm still waiting for this proof that macro evolution exists. Roughly 50% of the Scientists in the world don't buy marco evolution either but I'm sure you'll just discredit them or call them names. But don't mind me.....keep talking your lie and one day you might not need any proof to believe it. Oh wait......your already there. Please read the links in my previous response to you. Proof of macroevolution. You aren't still waiting, I have already posted a link. Where do you get your roughly 50% of scientists? I'm a grad student at a large research school, and not one of the scientists I work with disbelieve evolution. I realize that this is only anecdotal, so if you have a source for this, post it. For now, it seems highly unlikely. -Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Wow, it hasn't been this active around here since Freet. last visited. Freet. does know how to stir things up does't he. Freet., your the man. And I'm still praying for your conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 :eek: Note: Your argument is with http://www.dictionary.com (which is Webster's Unabridged Dictionary) : species - A fundamental category of taxonomic classification, ranking below a genus or subgenus and consisting of related organisms capable of interbreeding. Like shooting fish in a barrel.Try loading your gun next time. Yes a "Species" can breed, that was exactly MY point. But YOUR claim was "Inter-species mating".I guess you using a dictionary is like a fish out of water. Now either provide PROOF of "Inter-species mating" or have the intellectual integrity to admit you do not have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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