Dark Mind Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Okay, I'm now going to quote myself from a different site so I want the focus to be on my "Note:". Now this seems like a good idea to me but I already realize that the liquid nitrogen would need to be cooled itself and draw heat away from the magnets, both requiring "work" and therefore ruining the system (according to my high school physics teacher, he's only working here because he says working in a high security government lab was to stressful and he finally find out what the gun in the drawer was for when a Navy SEAL tested the base's security and got past somewhere between 60-75 Marines. I like Mr. Dennison) Anyway, a little off topic there, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to how to keep the magnets cool to maintain super-conductivity and not ruin the system. Posted: Feb 09,2005 - 5:02PM How many of you are familiar with superstrings, SSC (Super-conducting Super Collider), or updates in quantum mechanics... Or ANYTHING related to physics, like a perpetual motion device or light speed travel or atom smashers (like the SSC) or even the laws of thermo-dynamics or gravity and how we may break them, why they're there, or why they can't be broken. Please just give me something meaningful to discuss in here. Please don't post if physics "Confuses" you or gives you a "Headache". But feel free to post if you are genuinely interested and just want to ask questions to clarify some of the more confusing aspects or are just curious about what is happening with physics and how it is affecting our world as we know it. Note: Something of extreme interest to me is entropy (Second law of Thermo-dynamics) and why it prevents a perpetual motion device, because I think I have a way to overcome this by using twenty super-conductive magnets laid down at 36° (ten on the ground or other support and ten above those) and they would be tilted like a back-slash ( / ) at somewhere between 15°-45° (probably closer to 15) , they would also be slightly overlapping each other. The magnets would be cooled to maintain super conductivity by liquid nitrogen running through some apparatus that would support it and one of the levels of the magnets (I was thinking the upper one) would also be connected by some sort of steel or metal (I was thinking Platinum or Titanium) to a rod in the center of both the levels (upper and lower) of magnets and the rod would rotate as the opposite magnetic fields of the magnets perpetually propelled them away from one another. This rotation could then be used to obtain some sort of energy after being transferred to a generator of some sort, the energy, I'm assuming, would probably be electric but it may be kinetic. After some thinking I suggested to my teacher hollowing the magnets out and closing them off with liquid nitrogen inside them so it wouldn't have room to evanesce into gas and he said the pressure would make it explode and if that didn't happen it would still warm down so I'm in quite a fix because I really think super-conductivity is the way to go for perpetual motion. Please help! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Perpetual motion can only exist if no energy is ever taken from the system. Assuming there was a completely lossless system, it is possible that perpetual motion could occur, but the only system I know of that is completely lossless is the universe. Anything else will give off energy of some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 sorry it's a poll, it really shouldn't be but I don't know how to take that off and it's really bugging me because I was just seeing what some of the features were and I guess I accidentally left the poll one on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 I don't see a poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 neither do I, but in the forum it says poll next to "Perpetual Motion: Super Conductive Magnets, Something's Gotta Work!" and I was playing with the poll option so.... I just messed up. I'll try and keep my posts and threads cleaner from now on, yup, straight to the point.... No more pointless rambling for me, but seriously I just messed up and won't happen again and Tormod could you please remove the poll from "Poll: Perpetual Motion: Super Conductive Magnets, Something's Gotta Work!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Something strange happening. The poll is there when I edit it but it doesn't show up in the thread and I can't delete it. Will try to remove it via the administrator pages. Don't worry...you didn't do anything wrong. Things happen. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Gracias. I know I didn't do anything wrong but it annoyed me that I posted this as a poll, thanks for fixing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Please post a reply to my idea for a perpetual motion device, please. And try to bear in mind that I'm a high school junior while reading the things I write, my teachers are quite amazed by the work I do... when I do it :(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumab Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Perpetual motion can only exist if no energy is ever taken from the system. It's true- while a perpetual motion machine would be incredible as a feat of engineering, it would be really useless, as far as I can see. While, in theory, one could create a completly lossless system, you couldn't get any useful work out of it. Heck, I'm not even sure if you could look at it, because bouncing photons off of it would probably constitute a loss of energy over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 But what if the motion (from the rotating rod in the center) was used to power a generator. The energy could then be used to power other devices/appliances. And some of the power may be redirected back to the machine maybe to make sure it had enough energy to remain in a state of perpetual motion :(. But I don't know, just ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgrmdave Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 But that would require bringing energy into the universe - which is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishteacher73 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Energy cannot be created or destroyed...the energy put back into the device would have to equal to the energy it was producing (assuming there was no loss due to friction or any other drain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 But that would require bringing energy into the universe - which is impossible. But we don't know if that would apply to perpetual motion device (although that is one of the arguments made on why it can't be created). I mean isn't the whole reason people have tried to build one because they're looking for a source of infinite energy and if the magnets were tilted at the right angles like maybe exactly 45° they would propel off each so strongly they would constantly be accelerating themselves, rotating the rod faster, producing exponentially greater energy amounts. But once again, just ideas :(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxian Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 strings... are they gyroscopic particles? if so are they multidimensional gyroscopic particles? if so where do they draw their power? superpotential particles? or is there yet more complexity beyond strings? lastly can the harmonics of strings be tuned by humans? it is said they control the potential of the atom, can an atom be totally modified by tuning the harmonics of the vibrating strings within? also.. are they the building blocks of atoms physically? or are atoms defined by the harmonics of strings and not really substantial as we understand it? **But that would require bringing energy into the universe - which is impossible.** are you saying then that we have yet to discover the source of power beyond strings or that all power is dirived from larger bodies cooling? [such as the big bang] even so if energy cannot be destroyed where does it go? it can't all become radiation and 'dark matter' etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDMclean Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 You are on to something here. I've had thoughts about this problem as did Nicholai Tesla. The thing about the Magnet idea for a super-Generator is that Magnets don't mearly have energy. They have a flow of energy all by themselves. They bring in and push out a equal ammount of force. Magnetic Fields I think are the way to build such a generator because it is not a "perpetual" motion machine cause such a thing falls to the fact that it's energy is taken out and used and by definition makes it no longer a "perpetual" motion machine. I call this class of Machine a Ambient Generator because it pulls it's power form a source that is plentiful in the local enviroment. A particular bit of magnet know-how to look at is what's called a Halbatch Array. Very simple very effective. Also Remember that a Magnetic Field Accelerating generates an Electric Field and vice Versa. As for Super Cooling the Magnets... I'm sorry that could only be fixed by a Room Temp Super Conducting Magnet something which as of yet does not exsit. I would suggest perhaps seeing if a smaller scale Regular Magnetic Generator could be constructed with Perment Magnetics Like Neodynium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Mind Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Well thank you for the first positive response I've had to my hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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