Perpetual Motion: Super Conductive Magnets.

[C1ay]

Doesn't Newton's First Law of Motion imply that all motion is perpetual unless acted on by an opposing force?

[IDMclean]

Indeed. Because when an out side force interacts with the object their is transference of motion. of energy. that's why in space, where there's no (low?) friction, an object will continue through space at a constant rate unless slowed or accelerated by an outside force.

[Qfwfq]

In one sense, we are surrounded by examples of it. An atom in its ground state is in perpetual motion, something interacting with it might add energy to the motion but can't decrease it from the ground state. All materials are full of motion and, if the total is not drawn away from, there you have a PM. Just like that paperweight sitting there, right on your desk! Not all examples are perfect, planetary orbits are near lossless while Earth's rotation is gradually dissipating due to tidal dissipation. The same cause has already brought the moon to be showing us the same face all the time.

 

What about the other sense: some contraption you could draw endless energy from? If you find one, that means that your contraption is, in turn, able to endlessly draw energy from somewhere or something else. It couldn't mean that energy is being created from nothing.

[Dark Mind]

C'mon, let's see some responses!

[clapstyx]

I think you are better off absorbing free energy..thats how its always been done in the past.

 

My preferred way is to conbine free energy with reversible chemical transitions.

In hindsight I think you will find your mind better utilised by not spending forever trying to work out perpetual motion. You might think about the compression affect of gravity though and what the consequences of compressed matter are on the state of what is left behind.

[Qfwfq]

Examples of free energy include oil and gas. Coal is a lot less free 'cause it's a mighty sweat to be a miner. As for oil and gas, they gush up mighty fine from the ground once you've drilled the hole. They aren't free for those who don't own the land but that's a matter quite different from the physics of energy.

 

Gas and alcohol can also be obtained from all the organic stuff that we constantly throw away.

 

Other examples are solar, eolic, geothermal, hydro, tides, marine currents...

[clapstyx]

I think you misunderstood my definition of free energy because oil coal and gas are certainly outside my definition. perhaps I should have said "energy on the loose and seeking to express itself in a positively noticeable way".

 

Light is an example of base form pure "free" energy. But its far from the only source of untapped energy in the universe.

 

I built my first solar powered engine by sort of replicating the mechanics of photosynthesis and came across it by accident as I was initially trying to build a pump that was modelled on a tree. The trees mastered the capture of free energy about 100 million years ago, so I began by studying biology, physics, mathemetaics, biochemistry and philosophy. Half of the logic of a tree hadnt even been written down anywhere. You might say "whats the point of logic" the point is that if you understand that eveything else is common sense..self evident..obvious it has to be that way or its not going to work. Then I sought the most primitive working tree I could find..to eliminate the bells and whistles

[Qfwfq]

energy on the loose and seeking to express itself in a positively noticeable way

I was being deliberately cheeky about oil gas and coal :eek: but I guess the examples I listed after solar come under your heading.

 

Have you patented your tree yet? It would be interesting to know more detail.

[Dark Mind]

*Sigh* So much for my brilliant idea. Woe is me, my hopes and dreams crushed at the mild age of sixteen. *Even bigger, sigh*

[Qfwfq]

Don't take it badly, especially if you're sixteen. It isn't easy yet, at that age, to really see the whole picture. Not that it's easy at any age.

 

When I was so young I had the tendency to think of similar things, it shows imagination and inclination. I chose to study Physics after high school and gradually understood more and more... If you have the opportunity, do likewise!!! :)

[Dark Mind]

I intend to!

[Qfwfq]

I haven't followed this thread "properly" because there seemed to be a common type confusion in it, but I did read your first post. A few thing to keep in mind for starters:

 

PM can be defined as "of the 1st species" or "of the 2nd species". The first exists, the second doesn't.

 

The 2nd principle of thermodynamics isn't the only issue, there is the principle of energy conservation.

 

The first species of PM simply means lossless, as discussed in recent posts here. Energy is conserved. Even when there is a loss, this really means just that it is going into a form that you don't want, and often into heat which can't be fully recovered into mechanical or other forms (2nd POT).

 

The 2nd POT is a statistical one, it is not non-overcomeable; in practice it is, however a strong, very strong, principle. Neither does it mean a process can't be lossless. A mechanical or electric process can be... or almost be. A thermodynamic one usually isn't but, even in Thermodynamics, there is the definition of a reversible process. Your car's engine is never going to be reversible. It would be quite long to explain properly here.

 

Energy consevation starts in basic Mechanics as a theorem; no more, no less than a theorem. The argument procedes from thence to the much more general principle. It would also be complicated to give a proper treatment of this, here.

 

If you are eager to get a better picture before university, you need at least good Calculus but you're not lacking the enthusiasm, you might try making a head start into the Feynman Lectures on Physics.

[Dark Mind]

Thanks for your input, I have always admired Feynman. A practical joker to the death, like all great physicists. Except Nambu, he was always modest too...

[Qfwfq]

You're welcome!!!

 

Get good Math grounding... Best wishes!

[Dark Mind]

That sounded kind of final...

[Qfwfq]

Not necessarily, but I don't think I can give you much more essential advice. Math is a fundamental language and tool for Physics, although many an experimental has a bit of a grudge against it and mathematicians. In retrospect, I would have done much better to get math straight first, and better, instead of postponing it. This was very much the fault of a bad math teacher at high school but encouraged by some at physics, including a good General Physics professor. It was his only serious shortcoming. I hope you don't find trouble with math.