The Most Important Election of Our Lives

[questor]

Sounds like an ad hominem attack to me... implying I know nothing about our legislative bodies. I am aware of the workings of the lawmakers. If the idea is good enough and benefits all the people and isn't cluttered with earmarks, it

will usually pass. Bush should have vetoed many more bills than he did, since his non-use of pen contributed to our current situation.

[pgrmdave]

Actually, that's exactly what Senators were intended to do. Read the original Constitution :doh:

 

Bush didn't veto much, but there are a number of reasons for that:

 

1 - For most of his administration he had a Republican legislature

2 - He used signing statements very liberally, so that he could just put a signing statement on it rather than veto it

3 - The Congresses of his administration were roundly lambasted as "do-nothing" congresses - they put fewer bills in front of him than most Presidents, so he had less of a chance to veto anything.

[jackson33]

His experience as a community organizer (a job which he took despite having a very good degree from an excellent institution) helps assure me that he not only knows how to organize large groups of people and that he is more interested in helping people than helping himself. His degree in Constitutional Law provides good evidence to me that he is one of our best minds. I agree that McCain has shown that he is intelligent and good at getting things done in DC, but he has pushed for lower regulation of the economy for decades, and his party (to which he would be partially indebted for getting him into the white house) is the party that got us into the war. He also desires to expand the war, and has said such. Palin is even worse - she does not come off as intelligent, and she has no foreign experience, which is absolutely necessary for the next President. Or Vice-President.

 

While representing ACORN, he neither filed or represented anything in Illinois Civil Court and in 30 appearances (co-represented) he argued only one (he did win). The law firm he worked for used him primarily for research, filing briefs or the work generally given 'Law Students'. Best minds??? Please explain his historical gaff's which should flow as he would talking to his wife. A hundred thirty or so votes as present, in Illinois Government indicates a lack of commitment or possible lack of understanding, neither valid.

 

McCain, has a history. What you would get is predictable. Maintaining lower taxes, continuing the War on Terror, maintaining current National Security standards and the long held principle of non-negotiation with terrorist. He also has a history in commitment to his country and IT'S best interest, not his own or some childhood philosophy.

 

Why this problem with Palin??? She is the epitome of the American Dream. Smart?, I don't know but many thought successful people in politics, had this same ability to motivate and I certainly don't see stupidity when she talks. She can at least continue a prepared speech, when the prompter goes down or leave a media host in her tracks. As for foreign experience, no she didn't visit Africa with her Dad, but MAY understand American History.

[jackson33]

Actually, that's exactly what Senators were intended to do. Read the original Constitution :doh:

 

Bush didn't veto much, but there are a number of reasons for that:

 

1 - For most of his administration he had a Republican legislature

2 - He used signing statements very liberally, so that he could just put a signing statement on it rather than veto it

3 - The Congresses of his administration were roundly lambasted as "do-nothing" congresses - they put fewer bills in front of him than most Presidents, so he had less of a chance to veto anything.

 

In arguing terms for Senators, some wanted life tenure, others four or five (settled on 6). The sole reason to maintain understanding in Foreign Affairs. They represent their individual States, in those affairs and why they MUST ratify all Treaties. Oversight also requires knowledge in Foreign Affairs, which was and has always been a primary function of the Executive.

 

The fact GWB, didn't Veto his own party, is a reason he has had trouble with the Conservative Base. Think you confusing the last Congress with his first six, which were quite active. Think his first Congress sent over 8,000 bills to the White House, a record.

[pgrmdave]

I stand corrected on the congressional activity - it is likely that I have forgotten what it was like 8 years ago (keep in mind that I am 22, and was not nearly as politically active when I was 14-17 - my interest really started later, as did my desire to learn more about it than just listening to the pundits).

[InfiniteNow]

Seed magazine (a science magazine which also hosts scienceblogs.com) has given an endorsement this election season, and in their endorsement they said the following:

 

 

Seed: 2008 Endorsement for President

Science is a way of governing, not just something to be governed. Science offers a methodology and philosophy rooted in evidence, kept in check by persistent inquiry, and bounded by the constraints of a self-critical and rigorous method. Science is a lens through which we can and should visualize and solve complex problems, organize government and multilateral bodies, establish international alliances, inspire national pride, restore positive feelings about America around the globe, embolden democracy, and ultimately, lead the world. More than anything, what this lens offers the next administration is a limitless capacity to handle all that comes its way, no matter how complex or unanticipated.

 

 

I can't help but agree. :)

 

 

Hat Tip Pharyngula

[sanctus]

 

Why this problem with Palin??? [...] She can at least continue a prepared speech, when the prompter goes down or leave a media host in her tracks. As for foreign experience, no she didn't visit Africa with her Dad, but MAY understand American History.

 

Well if she really can continue a prepared speech, she is already way better than Bush :rose:

 

But a question Jackson33: why is Amrican history so important? In the present world situation knowledge of the world outside US seems more important to me...

[jackson33]

Well if she really can continue a prepared speech, she is already way better than Bush :)

 

But a question Jackson33: why is Amrican history so important? In the present world situation knowledge of the world outside US seems more important to me...

 

Most every president has studied US History to some degree and at least knowledgeable to how we got to this point and why. As for World history, I agree its important. The problem is no one person can be an expert on every culture, their traditions or in fact how other leaders may perceive their own history. It takes an army of advisor's to advise our leaders, where no one person knows or 'understands' all or is expected to....

 

Infinite; If their is anybody I would expect to understands American's and their knowledge of Science, it would be you. Day after day in reading post related to science, its obvious few understand anything about anything or have some strange ideas in all fields. We are not a nation of scientist, will never be and though unfortunate will never have a president with any vision past his/her advisor's, then based on National Security. Bush has encouraged NASA to work with the public sector in areas other than National Security and IMO thats should be the future. Various Corporate interest, are involved with educational institutions already and the trend to link science research to advancement in Medical/Pharmaceutical/Nanotech and other fields seem to be doing well.

[goku]

Most every president has studied US History to some degree and at least knowledgeable to how we got to this point and why.

 

i know how this nation was founded and why we are where we are.

but i can't make you know it or understand it.

 

abraham searched all of sodom & gamora for one good soul, but one could not be found. God distroied sodom & gamora.

 

evolutionists should be happy, this nation is evolving into.........

[jackson33]

i know how this nation was founded and why we are where we are.

but i can't make you know it or understand it.

 

abraham searched all of sodom & gamora for one good soul, but one could not be found. God distroied sodom & gamora.

 

evolutionists should be happy, this nation is evolving into.........

 

In relation to this election, please do advise how this Nation became all it has to Americans and in turn the world.

 

If you some how saying people in the US are somehow all degenerates, or don't meet the World view standards, please do advise how you formed that opinion.

 

If by chance your coming at me, with some theological philosophy, please excuse my questions and I'll try to excuse your ignorance....

[Qfwfq]

but let's discuss your core reason for your vote.

Who's reason, mine? :phones: :hihi:

 

Don't forget that Hypography isn't an American forum for Americans. Unlike Icarus, I feel free to say my opinion here and of course US foreign politics are so highly relevant to the world as well as to US citizens. I think the mainly important thing is to bash those neocons over the head. Their policy and creed are dangerously heading all of the western world toward situations resembling past disasters and I'm relieved that US citizens have been reacting strongly against it.

 

BTW implying that you display lack of knowledge about your legislative bodies isn't the meaning of an ad hominem attack. If you make wrong statements about the topic, it's relevant to point it out.

 

Think his first Congress sent over 8,000 bills to the White House, a record.

Nitpicking: If you mean the first congress after the United States of America had ratified their new constitution instituting said congress, the White House did not yet exist. I think it was in New York City that the federal executive resided until the year 1800.

White House Facts

[chriswhite]

Im not sure there is a different outcome.

 

from the research I have done there is little difference between the two candidates.

 

the two party system is too easily controlled by special interest IMO.

[jackson33]

Nitpicking: If you mean the first congress after the United States of America had ratified their new constitution instituting said congress, the White House did not yet exist. I think it was in New York City that the federal executive resided until the year 1800.

White House Facts

 

No, was the first Congress under GWB administration and a question of a 'do nothing' Congress. Was quite the opposite, compared to current, under Bush...

 

Yes, the First Congress met in NYC, Federal House, think on Wall Street, later moved to Philadelphia, then to DC. The idea was to seat American government outside the jurisdiction of any State...

 

 

criswhite; What special interest??? Most lobbyist are directly connected to some public interest. Unions, medical, attorney or segmented groups of society and are funded in most part by interested folks on some issue...

 

This cycle has been strange and in the beginning Obama's main theme was to get out of Iraq with in 30 days of taking office, where McCain was and remains to get the job done. Since Obama has already made his first National Address to the Nation, it would be silly to go over all the original themes of his candidacy or even that of McCain's, but there were/are some differences...

[Turtle]

What special interest??? Most lobbyist are directly connected to some public interest. Unions, medical, attorney or segmented groups of society and are funded in most part by interested folks on some issue...

 

Just a note on this lobbyist & special interest meme. It is in fact as old as the constitution. The ink wasn't dry before the coblers showed up, and the tinkers, and the merchants, and yada yada yada showed up wanting their intersts addressed by the new government. Jefferson was taken aback as he, nor the other Founders, foresaw this.

 

Having read a lot of claims here about what & how much everyone knows about the founding of the United States of America, and also having read The Radicalism of the American Revolution by Pulitzer Prize winning author Gordon S. Wood, I can say most folk are poorly informed on the matter.

 

Here's a source near the top of the Google search for the title: The Radicalism of the American Revolution Study Guide by Gordon S. Wood Study Guide

 

Nothing beats actually reading the book I must say. :hihi: :phones:

[jackson33]

Turtle; The State Legislatures of all the colonies and a good many of the founders themselves were business people of their times. Government and the Constitution was set by and for the people who owned property or had a vested interest in the success and the Federalist Papers were intended toward those people, who held the deciding votes for ratification. It would seem to me, any interest shown whether ahead or after the final ratification or the first Assembly, would have been unexpected.

 

Today, we have 300 million individuals are considered equals in the total yet limited to access of the Federal Government. Not only by the massive numbers, but how the process works. We can vote, demonstrate or promote an issue even in numbers to get attention, but the vast majority live lives day to day in their own little world. However we can group into large enough organizations to be heard by many who are in the process and who make the decisions and by people that are versed, knowledgeable and KNOW the people involved. There is not one person in this country that in some manner is not represented by any number of these groups, then either in opposing an issue or wanting one progressed. Many contribute, either in dues or contribution to promote personal issues to them. In short its the average working person best and easiest means to participate in government. It bothers me to hear about big business or some association with some group trying to influence government via corruption or some illegal action. Sure it happens and sure you know it takes a crook to accept from a crook to be wrong, but IMO the overwhelming number of decision on bills or programs that come from the House or advanced by the Senate are done so with as much input and study as possible, including whatever influence those lobbyist offer...

[Pyrotex]

Dave, how would you rank these in order of importance?...

1. the economy

2. stopping the [iraq] war

3. electing the most experienced candidate

4. not continuing Bush's policies

5. changing the way government does business

6. helping the less fortunate

7. Roe vs Wade

[Turtle]

Turtle; The State Legislatures of all the colonies and a good many of the founders themselves were business people of their times. Government and the Constitution was set by and for the people who owned property or had a vested interest in the success and the Federalist Papers were intended toward those people, who held the deciding votes for ratification. It would seem to me, any interest shown whether ahead or after the final ratification or the first Assembly, would have been unexpected.

 

It seems to me you have not read the book, so if that is the case then your comment on its content is moot. :phones: