Consensus in Politics

[Zythryn]

Questor, there has been a lot of activity on this thread. Just in case you missed it, I thought I would copy my post here:

 

Questor, you still have not answered my original question. However, in an effort to get you to clarify your statement, I will be happy to answer you questions:

 

1. What code of moral behavior do you live by?

Most concisely? I would state it as a mixure of 'Do no harm' and 'Treat others as you would like to be treated'. I would also throw in a touch of a desire to leave this planet/society better than when I arrived.

 

 

2. Do you think there should be any curbs on human behavior?

Most certainly. I don't believe anyone should do harm to another human.

 

3. How should the curbs be enforced?

 

That is an excellent question. I don't have an ideal method of enforcement. I do believe more effort spent in prevention through education, support and family will pay off large dividends in lessening the number of 'infractions'.

 

4. Do you enjoy being around public displays of affection?

Within limits, I find them refreshing and beautiful. A wonderful example of humanity and far prefer them over public displays of violence and hate.

 

5. Would you enjoy seeing your parents marching in the San Francisco parade?

Hehe, I would have to say that I would find very little more humorous than that. And if they wanted to show support for peace and happiness in that way, I would fully approve.

 

So now, since you indicated I get a question now that I have answered yours.

How is it that homosexuals are not behaving like anyone else?

[jackson33]

Sorry Jackson, but your personal perspective is non-representative and doesnt' really hold water.

 

It seems most everyone but you is able to recognize what's been happening:

 

I guess your correct, since I have no idea what your comments or sites have to do with what my post was arguing. If you want an argument, start a thread on Mr. Jacques (pointed and agenda driven history) or current US/Israel policy, neither mentioned...

 

We (The US), the Allied Forces (1946) and the United Nations (1948) are the reason, Israel exist today, where it does and in most part for why the issues have not been settled. IMO, since Israel is insistent on this location for religious beliefs, I frankly don't think we should be so involved, but we are by a number of agreements and treaty.

 

Frankly to 'nutronjon's' point about Nuclear weapons in Israel, I would agree, if in deed they have such weapons. I see no reason, why any society that lives on the belief, that the end of mankind as we know it, will come from violence...should have BB guns..where ever they came from.

[Moontanman]

Moontan, would you say that we should abandon all law that speaks to your idea of morality? Do you embrace all human behavior except murder and stealing? Do you condemn judgementalism? And by the way, the south is not a solid voting bloc.

 

As long as the human behavior involves consenting adults and doesn't endanger others I see no reason to have laws prohibiting it. In other words what i do in my own home with my consenting adult friends or other wise has no bearing on you and is none of your business. And BTW since I live in the south and have for my whole life I think I am more qualified to say it is indeed a a lot closer to a voting block than you think. It used to be practically a monolithic block, that is changing as Yankees move south but to a great extent it remains a voting block on a lot of issues. Yes I do take a dim view of people who judge others, I will leave anyone alone that leaves me alone. i really don't care what your beliefs are or what you like, eat, smoke, worship or what ever as long as you don't force it on others or endanger others with your beliefs.

[questor]

This is the type misinformation one gets from reading liberal news sources:

 

"...it was clear that the neocon revolution had wide popular support and serious electoral roots, that it was establishing a new kind of domestic political hegemony. In fact, the right has been setting the political agenda in the US for at least 30 years and that is now true with a vengeance. All the indications suggest that the revolution is continuing apace.''

The truth is that Jimmy Carter was president from 1977-1981 Democrat

Bill Clinton was president from 1993-2001. Democrat

Partisan makeup of US Congress since 1978;

 

The Senate The House

Congress Years Democrats Republicans Other Democrats Republicans Other

 

The Senate The House

Congress Years Democrats Republicans Other Democrats Republicans

95th 1977-1979 61 38 1 292 143

96th 1979-1981 58 41 1 277 158

97th 1981-1983 46 53 1 242 192 1

98th 1983-1985 46 54 0 269 166

99th 1985-1987 47 53 0 253 182

100th 1987-1989 55 45 0 258 177

101st 1989-1991 55 45 0 260 175

102d 1991-1993 56 44 0 267 167 1

103d 1993-1995 57 43 0 258 176 1

104th 1995-1997 48 52 0 204 230 1

105th 1997-1999 45 55 0 207 226 2

106th 1999-2001 45 55 0 211 223 1

107th 2001-2003 50 50 0 212 221 2

108th 2003-2005 48 51 1 204 229 1

109th 2005-2006 44 55 1 202 231 1

 

The libs are now in control of both houses and will probably win the presidency. This a good example of fact twisting. It's good to get information from factual sources.

[Moontanman]

This is the type misinformation one gets from reading liberal news sources:

 

"...it was clear that the neocon revolution had wide popular support and serious electoral roots, that it was establishing a new kind of domestic political hegemony. In fact, the right has been setting the political agenda in the US for at least 30 years and that is now true with a vengeance. All the indications suggest that the revolution is continuing apace.''

The truth is that Jimmy Carter was president from 1997-2001 Democrat

Bill Clinton was president from 1993-2001.

 

Partisan makeup of US Congress since 1978;

 

D R D R

96th 1979-1981 58 41 1 277 158

97th 1981-1983 46 53 1 242 192 1

98th 1983-1985 46 54 0 269 166

99th 1985-1987 47 53 0 253 182

100th 1987-1989 55 45 0 258 177

101st 1989-1991 55 45 0 260 175

102d 1991-1993 56 44 0 267 167 1

103d 1993-1995 57 43 0 258 176 1

104th 1995-1997 48 52 0 204 230 1

105th 1997-1999 45 55 0 207 226 2

106th 1999-2001 45 55 0 211 223 1

107th 2001-2003 50 50 0 212 221 2

108th 2003-2005 48 51 1 204 229 1

109th 2005-2006 44 55 1 202 231 1

 

The libs are now in control of both houses and will probably win the presidency. This a good example of fact twisting. It's good to get information from factual sources.

 

Excellent! I'm glad to hear we are winning! The country and the world will be a much better place :evil: :hihi:

[questor]

Zythryn, you said:

''I would also throw in a touch of a desire to leave this planet/society better than when I arrived.''

 

Will this planet be better when people parade naked down the streets with pierced nipples, tattoos, and other adornments. When people are making out in public? Tell me how this improves society?

[Zythryn]

Zythryn, you said:

''I would also throw in a touch of a desire to leave this planet/society better than when I arrived.''

 

Will this planet be better when people parade naked down the streets with pierced nipples, tattoos, and other adornments. When people are making out in public? Tell me how this improves society?

 

A. Not every action is targeted at making the world a better place. Some things are done simply for fun, self expression, etc.

 

B. To whom are you referring when you say 'when people parade naked'.

Can you cite a source for this information? I did not know this was done.

[Moontanman]

Zythryn, you said:

''I would also throw in a touch of a desire to leave this planet/society better than when I arrived.''

 

Will this planet be better when people parade naked down the streets with pierced nipples, tattoos, and other adornments. When people are making out in public? Tell me how this improves society?

 

I think it will be, I can't wait for the naked parades with the naked beauty queens and the naked bands and the naked floats and the naked police officers and the naked clowns and the naked naked naked naked. Man you have a real problem with sex don't you. Don't you know the harder you suppress sex the more influence it has on your life? Would people die if a naked man or woman walked down the street? Would riots start? Would anyone really notice if sex wasn't suppressed so completely in our society? Have you ever been to a nudist camp? I have and after the first few minutes of fear it becomes no big deal at all. Naked people are not sexual bombs ready to go off at any moment. In fact public nudity seems to suppress the sex drive to a great extent. It's really difficult to keep your mind on sex when there is nothing hidden, not to mention 99% of the population isn't exactly playboy or playgirl material. I think you need to spend about a week in a naturist camp, maybe all your weird ideas about sex will blown away and leave you with an appreciation of what sex really means. In a naturist community sex cannot be used as advertising. No one uses sex to get anything or to influence anyone. Everyone being naked all the time really defuses a lot of the tension concerning sex and it gives you a perspective on why we seem to be able to use sex to buy, sell and influence everyone in a society that professes to be against sexual exploitation and attempts to keep sex under tightly controlled wraps. :evil:

[questor]

Moontan, I live in the south as you do, and I've probably been there many more years. If the south was ever monolithic it was before Reagan and it was mostly Democrat. You said you don't like judgementalism. If that is so, what do you call your attitude toward the Christians? What about churches?

I can't understand what good things are expected to happen when we have an all Dem government. Can you tell me a few things you are looking for?

[Moontanman]

Moontan, I live in the south as you do, and I've probably been there many more years. If the south was ever monolithic it was before Reagan and it was mostly Democrat. You said you don't like judgementalism. If that is so, what do you call your attitude toward the Christians? What about churches?

I can't understand what good things are expected to happen when we have an all Dem government. Can you tell me a few things you are looking for?

 

I do not know what you are talking about questor, I have no problem with religion or Christians as long as they have no real power to promote their agendas. My wife and I spent most of the day Sunday cooking for the homeless and destitute at our Church. Our church doesn't try to promote a political agenda to make the Rules of the Church law or even rules that have to be followed by anyone who doesn't freely want to follow them. I have been on the bad end of the judgmental stick many times in my life and I've seen other people whose lives were disrupted and sometimes even destroyed by judgmental good Christian people who just wanted to make sure everyone lived right and tried to make sure anyone who didn't live right felt the consequences. I do not look for an all Dem government as matter of fact I think it's a bad idea for either extreme to have complete control. What I really don't like is the extremists from either side having power. Nothing is more dangerous than a government and a people who blindly follow any liberal or conservative philosophy. the only true way is to walk the middle and be willing to use the best of all ideas to govern. for far to long it has been a fight between the right and left and all this has given us is a polarized society that cannot get anything done and that consistently clashes. The really sad thing is the both extremes try to influence people to come into their camps at all costs with no real intent of doing anything but furthering some extreme ideal that has no real intent to makes things better for anyone. They only exist to further their own ideal. I truly believe that left to themselves most people would chose the middle road. But hype, misinterpretations, obfuscation and outright lies from both sides keep the average person from really knowing what is going on. There is no reason for this war of ideals, no one political agenda has all the answers or even most of the answers. If we as a culture continue to make decisions based on out dated and emotional reasons we will not prevail or even survive.

[questor]

Moontan, there you go again---being judgemental when you said you were against it. Have you been spying on me? How have you determined anything about my personal life or activities?

I can't see anything particularly exciting about nudity in general since most people have pretty lumpy and unattractive bodies, but if that's the way you get your kicks, it's not illegal to look, but it could be illegal to be naked.

I assume you think nakedness would somehow improve society? Maybe improve the economy or wipe out poverty? Perhaps generate consensus in politics?

[Zythryn]

Zythryn, you must be very young. You also must not watch much TV. It is difficult to deal with someone who will not do any research on his own. I'll give you these, but please don't ask me any more questions unless you prepare yourself with research, I do not have to talk to you.

 

You are the one with the claim, I simply asked for links so I could do the research. Since you made the claim, I was confident you had seen the information somewhere and could help me out.

 

Gay Blog - QueerSightedApr 9, 2007 ... I think it's kinda tacky they have a gay parade with almost-naked people on Easter Sunday. It gives gay people a bad rap. ...

Gay Blog - QueerSighted - 40k -

Ah, you meant 'almost naked', not 'naked'. Well I see that all over the place. I thought you were discussion behavior that homosexuals were allowed to 'indulge' in which the rest of society is not.

 

Solstice Cyclists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaTwo 28-year old naked parade cyclists were arrested who, according to police, .... place for the first time in the Seattle Gay Pride Parade on Capitol Hill. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice_Cyclists

(bold added by me)

 

Again, this specifically states that such behavior was punished by local authorities. How does this show that homosexuals are allowed to indulge in behavior the rest of us are not?

 

The Poop : Don't rain on my (Gay Pride) paradeJun 25, 2008 ... Yes, we will see naked people (many on motorcycles), ..... I'm happy that Gay Pride parades exist, I think everyone should be free to be who ...

The Poop : Don't rain on my (Gay Pride) parade - 53

 

Nice blog. Shame there is no actual information in it except for a link to one image of a scantily clad (although I give you that top is awfully shear) woman passenger on a bike. Did authorities arrest her? No information is given so impossible to follow up on.

 

"*** parade" | Сообщения на LiveInternet.Ru о *** paradeSex Lesbi Gay Free porn fine naked *** picture of naked teenager naked women ... female free naked pic san francisco love parade + naked caught naked pics ...

link removed "***" | Ñîîáùåíèÿ íà LiveInternet.Ru î ***[/url] - 38k - Cached - Similar pages

 

A gay porn site? Would a moderator kindly remove that link if that is indeed what it is?

 

Questor, I am not questioning that people (homosexual or otherwise) don't act badly. I am questioning what behavior of homosexuals is allowed where the same behavior is not allowed for heterosexuals.

 

Have you ever been to a Mardi Gras parade? That has plenty of scantily clad people, and some indecent behavior as well.

And just like your second link demonstrated happened with naked people in public, I am sure the authorities at that parade also made a number of arrests for indecent exposure.

 

So, can you back up your position?

[Moontanman]

Zythryn, you must be very young. You also must not watch much TV. It is difficult to deal with someone who will not do any research on his own. I'll give you these, but please don't ask me any more questions unless you prepare yourself with research, I do not have to talk to you.

 

Gay Blog - QueerSightedApr 9, 2007 ... I think it's kinda tacky they have a gay parade with almost-naked people on Easter Sunday. It gives gay people a bad rap. ...

Gay Blog - QueerSighted - 40k -

 

Solstice Cyclists - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaTwo 28-year old naked parade cyclists were arrested who, according to police, .... place for the first time in the Seattle Gay Pride Parade on Capitol Hill. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstice_Cyclists

 

The Poop : Don't rain on my (Gay Pride) paradeJun 25, 2008 ... Yes, we will see naked people (many on motorcycles), ..... I'm happy that Gay Pride parades exist, I think everyone should be free to be who ...

The Poop : Don't rain on my (Gay Pride) parade - 53

 

"*** parade" | Сообщения на LiveInternet.Ru о *** paradeSex Lesbi Gay Free porn fine naked *** picture of naked teenager naked women ... female free naked pic san francisco love parade + naked caught naked pics ...

*link removed* - 38k - Cached - Similar pages

 

Questor you really don't get it do you? all the stuff you are afraid of would not happen if sex wasn't so strongly stifled in our society. these people who want to parade around and shock people like you wouldn't want to if it wasn't considered bad. As for all the porn it is a symptom of a repressed society, sex is so popular because it is suppressed. It's also the reason sexual images of the young and beautiful are so popular in every aspect of our society. You don't see that stuff in naturist communities, no one is interested. But no i don't think that everyone should go naked I just think that concentrating so much effort into preventing it causes it.

[questor]

Your post#96 is an agreeable one quite at odds with some other things you have written. The reason our country is split is because one group is consistently trying to even the playing field by taking earned income from those more successful. the achievers resent the constant reduction of their earnings to support those who choose not to work. One group thinks they deserve a larger piece of the pie, but will not do the things neccessary to EARN it. The other group wants to work in peace and provide for their family.

Government is coercive and punishes the achiever. It gives to the non-achiever and demands nothing back from him. This is not a win-win situation, it is unfair. It is one thing to give from the charity of your heart, it is quite another to have it confiscated.

[modest]

A gay porn site? Would a moderator kindly remove that link if that is indeed what it is?

 

Done. It was a list of porn sites, some gay some not. The particular one questor picked out was not gay but had some underaged kids.

 

~modest

[questor]

Moontan, do you have children? Would your family agree with you on this:

''Questor you really don't get it do you? all the stuff you are afraid of would not happen if sex wasn't so strongly stifled in our society. these people who want to parade around and shock people like you wouldn't want to if it wasn't considered bad. As for all the porn it is a symptom of a repressed society, sex is so popular because it is suppressed. It's also the reason sexual images of the young and beautiful are so popular in every aspect of our society. You don't see that stuff in naturist communities, no one is interested. But no i don't think that everyone should go naked I just think that concentrating so much effort into preventing it causes it.''

Is it possible people could still have a normal sexual life if we didn't have people parading around naked? The basic question is: what is the good of it?

does it improve society? Is it good for kids? Couldn't it just as easily be done in private?

[Moontanman]

Your post#96 is an agreeable one quite at odds with some other things you have written. The reason our country is split is because one group is consistently trying to even the playing field by taking earned income from those more successful. the achievers resent the constant reduction of their earnings to support those who choose not to work. One group thinks they deserve a larger piece of the pie, but will not do the things neccessary to EARN it. The other group wants to work in peace and provide for their family.

Government is coercive and punishes the achiever. It gives to the non-achiever and demands nothing back from him. This is not a win-win situation, it is unfair. It is one thing to give from the charity of your heart, it is quite another to have it confiscated.

 

I think you are over simplifying the problem, I've been up and down in my life more than a couple of times. I've clawed my my way back up and the people at the top are not always exactly helpful. Many always assume if you are down you deserve it and that you are a a parasite. Most people who are down are not there due to lack of trying, some started out way down and the climb up is a lot harder than many at the top think. Just because someone is bastard enough to walk over every one else to make it to the top doesn't mean he deserves it any more than someone who has really worked hard their whole life just to have it swept away time and time again due to circumstances beyond their control. To assume anyone who is not successful is some how deserving of that plight or that they haven't tried is just so wrong and doesn't speak well for the person who assumes the road to the top is easy just because it was for them.