nutronjon Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 The US defended democracy in two world wars, and around the world has been known as a democracy, since the beginning of the nation. If you want me to varify this I will. I have shelves full of books talking about the American Democracy, and Tocqueville's 1835 book "Democracy in America" was one of best known books in the world. Public education was used to mobilize the US for the defense of democracy in two world wars. "The dominant question before our schools and colleges today- and therefore the most important question before us this week- is how the blood-stained soil and poisoned air of this war can be made to bring forth the finest flowers of human spirit.... The war thrusts upon the nation the need of burnishing ideals as well as armaments. There is always danger, thru the bitterness and sacrifice of conflict, of falling to lower planes-of doing violence to the very ideals we started out to exalt and defend. Armies and navies and aeroplanes alone cannot make the world safe for truth. Democracy is a body of ideals. Its last cital of refuge from the enemy therefore must be an institution dedeicated to the conservation of ideals. Such an institution is the school...." Willian T. Foster, addressing the National Education Association in 1917. "We should teach that in a democracy the duty to serve and the privilege to serve fall upon all alike. Each one of us must hold himself ready to be summoned to the duty of supporting the great government under which we live. Pupils should be taught that the question whether we should go to war is no longer debatable. We are in war. We went into it by a vote of an overwhelming majority of our legally chosen representatives. Our duty now is to stand by democracy." Sara H Fahey, addressing the National Education Association in 1917. As we mobilized for the second world war, schools used a series of books called the Democracy Series, preparing children in all grades to understand democracy and contrasting it with Germany under Hitler. In these text books democracy is defined: "Democracy is a way of life and social organization which above all others is sensitive to the dignity and worth of the individual human personality, affirming the fundamental moral and political equality of all men and recognizing no barriers of race, religion, or circumstance." (General Report of the Seminar on "What is Democracy?" Congress on Education for Democracy, August, 1939.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson33 Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Nutron; There are now two references to you feeling 'God is Nature'. I have no problem with this and personally feel in politics (opposed to science) its hard to separate the two in political practice or discussion. But you have now mentioned shelves of books and brought Mike C's older post back up. This person, Mike C, I have known for three years on various forums under a variety of user names and does believe God is Nature. He has also mentioned many times 'shelves of books' in reference to science. Though I do NOT think you are he, I do feel there is a connection. If wrong and you are he or his typist, I will be terribly disappointed...in both. As for indoctrination of school children into waring for democracy, please get real.US History/Government and State History were taught in ALL US schools long before WWI, much less WWII, including prior to the Vietnam War. Patriotism was important to most in those days and participation in the military a matter of fact, not an obligation or some kind of undesirable duty. To find one quote in 1939, during a period when entering Europe's problems were argued daily, justifies nothing. It would not be possible to teach, what happened in the US on behalf of Europe or in the Pacific operations, from industrial participation to virtually every citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutronjon Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Nutron; There are now two references to you feeling 'God is Nature'. I have no problem with this and personally feel in politics (opposed to science) its hard to separate the two in political practice or discussion. But you have now mentioned shelves of books and brought Mike C's older post back up. This person, Mike C, I have known for three years on various forums under a variety of user names and does believe God is Nature. He has also mentioned many times 'shelves of books' in reference to science. Though I do NOT think you are he, I do feel there is a connection. If wrong and you are he or his typist, I will be terribly disappointed...in both. As for indoctrination of school children into waring for democracy, please get real.US History/Government and State History were taught in ALL US schools long before WWI, much less WWII, including prior to the Vietnam War. Patriotism was important to most in those days and participation in the military a matter of fact, not an obligation or some kind of undesirable duty. To find one quote in 1939, during a period when entering Europe's problems were argued daily, justifies nothing. It would not be possible to teach, what happened in the US on behalf of Europe or in the Pacific operations, from industrial participation to virtually every citizen. I don't know any more about Mike C. than I know of you. My books are mostly about educaton, not science, however, I do have some science books. Mostly though I have education books, including old text books, and books for teachers, and books about education, and the quote I gave is from an rather large book, recording all the speeches made the National Education Association Convention in 1917. The purpose of that convention was to mobilize our nation for war, and that is why public schools were not closed. If you want more prove this, I will provide it. I really do not believe a text book published in 1940, contrasting the US with Germany is just another text book. I particularly enjoy books written during the war years because of the intense effort to define what makes the US different from the enemy. What is unnerving is to read in a kids school book, what makes the US different from the enemy, and realize today we do things the way our past enemy did them. Now what is the justification for war, if we are going to be just like our enemy when all is said and done? We adopted the German model of bureaucracy which is Prussian military bureaucracy applied to citizens, and we adopted the German model of education for technology for military and industrial purpose, and as the Prussians did when they took over Germany, we have destroyed our national heroes and praise efficiency. I have books written about Germany just before or during the wars, because I was studying education and knew we had imitated Germany, so I wanted to know more about Germany. The National Defense Education Act, replaced our liberal education with Germany's model of education for technology, and we switched from the Conceptual Method to the Behaviorist Method. This of course is over simplifying everything, but since we have taken this path, the Federal Government has exercised more and more control over public education and there is no resistance to this, even though our constitutions forbids it. In 1917 Industry, Education, and National Defense sat on the same board for the first time, and education has been linked to national defense every since. Until the military technology of WWII that meant being sure the young understand our democracy and why it has to be defended, and what the individuals role is in defending it. Following WWII that became unnecessary, as education for national defense, shifted to the rapid technological development, and a high tech military force. So our attitude towards Jefferson's words, "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God" do not mean the same today as they did when he wrote those words, and whole culture is radically changed. Some of this change is good and some is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 <Moderator note: I have moved 8 preceding posts from the last few days which were off topic and theological in substance to “15670”> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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