freeztar Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 and humor ... Indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 eh...er...Oh yea now I remember, Why Are Moderators So Mean To Stupid People OH GOD! YOU MEAN, YOU, MEAN, THAT'S WHY THEY TREAT ME THIS WAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modest Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 Why Are Moderators So Mean To Stupid People Only smart people get how nice I am -modest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeztar Posted June 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I particularly liked this one:In Defence of Open-mindedness - Google Book Search I'm guessing nobody has looked at this yet...Thought? Ideas? Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted June 18, 2008 Report Share Posted June 18, 2008 I think science is honestly trying to find the truth in nature. Knowledge is built upon other knowledge, sort of the way we build a house. But like a house it is easier to replace the roof than the foundation. If one questions the latest roof theories science is very open to change. But if you decide to change fundamental or foundation premises, things gets very complicated. Try to replace the foundation of a house without damage to the house. For example, say you could come up with another explanation for charge, hypothetically. Charge is foundation stuff which is used by hundreds if not thousands of papers and theories. The implication of any such change would be the need for a huge dumpster. This has to be an untouchable. It is nothing personal, but it protects the greater good. One has to look at it in practical terms. If you hypothetically replaced charge, even if it was progressive, the ripple and rubble affect slows progress. A house with a crack in the foundation is more useful than a good foundation without a house. Based on that there are certain dogma that are defended for the overall good, to keep science moving to the future. The only way it would be allowable is a parallel house being built. But that is made complicated because the original is a huge organization, making the needed resources almost impossible to gather to make something as grand and awesome. But if it starts to take shape, by some crazy fluke, a little science holy war could lay it under siege until the walls start to fall. Religion went through this problem in the middle ages. The flat earth and the earth the center of universe were foundation theories which were some of the untouchables. The church fought this with their own holy war but science continued to build and rebuild until it could be occupied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 An really stellar post from Tom over at Swans on Tea today: Swans on Tea What Mr. Slack Got WrongAcceptance of science as the tool for learning about nature requires only an observation of the world around us and what science has accomplished. But any ideology that purports to know the answer even before the question is asked, and chooses its “facts” to come up with that answer is fatally flawed. To label this acceptance as “faith,” as Mr. Slack does in the article is to fall prey to the equivocation all too common in these so-called debates. Faith because of the evidence and track record is simply not the same as faith despite the lack of the same. It comes down to this: if your car is sputtering, where do you go to get it fixed? Do you listen to the guy who fervently believes that there are demons in your fuel-injector, or the dozen of mechanics — who have fixed cars before — who tell you otherwise? Smart people who do biology for a living tell me that evolution is how the diversity of life on earth is best explained. I’ve seen some of the evidence, and I know there’s a whole lot more. That’s not zealotry, and that’s not describing a blind follower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 ...It comes down to this: if your car is sputtering, where do you go to get it fixed? Do you listen to the guy who fervently believes that there are demons in your fuel-injector, or the dozen of mechanics — who have fixed cars before — who tell you otherwise?...Yeah, kinda like "there are no Christian Scientists in a stalled car on the freeway...." :cheer: Become a fixer, not just a fixture, ;)Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 The point remains. Regardless of the religiosity or vocation of those in the car, they will remain stalled on the highway if they simply pray against demons in the injector. However, this is carrying the analogy too far. I'm led to assume that you did not read the whole link. If you had, you'd see that the comments extended far beyond this "take it to a mechanic" statement. Hit and run posts are a great way to lead by example. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 The point remains. Regardless of the religiosity or vocation of those in the car, they will remain stalled on the highway if they simply pray against demons in the injector. However, this is carrying the analogy too far. I'm led to assume that you did not read the whole link. If you had, you'd see that the comments extended far beyond this "take it to a mechanic" statement. Hit and run posts are a great way to lead by example. :rolleyes: Technically speaking, a destructive spirit inhabiting an engine would be a species of gremlin. :hihi::evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 The point remains. Regardless of the religiosity or vocation of those in the car, they will remain stalled on the highway if they simply pray against demons in the injector. However, this is carrying the analogy too far. I'm led to assume that you did not read the whole link. If you had, you'd see that the comments extended far beyond this "take it to a mechanic" statement. Hit and run posts are a great way to lead by example. :PYes, you're right. Humor is entirely inappropriate on this site. Especially when its relevant. And especially when it uses low-brow references to phrases from popular culture. It's all the more egregious because this particular thread obviously evidences none of it and has remained entirely sober and on topic througout. And you should of course be quite consternated that I expressed full agreement with both your post and the contents of the link (worse, did not fully encapsulate the entire meaning of it)! Bad Buffy! Tempt him not so too far; I wish, forbear, Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Apollo 13 Jerry Woodrill, who worked on the mission as the Alarm System Engineer said prayer played a role in the safe return of all the crew. Is that true? I couldn't say, i wasnt part of the mission, and I'm not a NASA engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REASON Posted June 23, 2008 Report Share Posted June 23, 2008 Bad Buffy! I kinda like Bad Buffy! As long as you're not closed-minded. [staying on topic] :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 If you look at the history of science, it continues to evolve itself. There is always progress and the past changes to accommodate the present. If we assume this is how science evolves, based on its history, then we should not be so sure, anything is the final say. Each generation learns the state of the art and assumes this is the final truth. If any generation assumes this temporary state of the art is the final truth, they will need to help it to stay that way, artificially. That is why the concept of dogma was invented. Dogma is "Am God" spelled backwards. Each generation believes their dogma "am" the final word of nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Each generation learns the state of the art and assumes this is the final truth.No, they don't. Only stupid people who don't understand the true nature of science do this. Try again. If any generation assumes this temporary state of the art is the final truth, they will need to help it to stay that way, artificially. Only if they are dogmatic, and lack a proper understanding of the nature of science. That is why the concept of dogma was invented. Dogma is "Am God" spelled backwards. Each generation believes their dogma "am" the final word of nature.Again, only the stupid ones. Don't let yourself be part of that group. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 Technically speaking, a destructive spirit inhabiting an engine would be a species of gremlin. :P I thought Gremlin was a make of car:doh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFINITLYDISTRUBD Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 I thought Gremlin was a make of carCheck out "bugs bunny-Falling Hare" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted June 24, 2008 Report Share Posted June 24, 2008 I was talking about evolution is truth. This sounds very dogmatic. Chemistry is more solid and doesn't preach this is the way to salvation. Evolution needs a historical perspective disclaimer. It should say, evolution is a very reasonable way to catalogue observational data. It doesn't do to well as far as predicting the future of anything large. It doesn't have a good origin in terms of how life formed. We could be leaving out important variables. As science changes, which it always does, this may change. But in the mean time, don't get too dogmatic. Use an open mind and expect evolution to evolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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