C1ay Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Here's a great presentation http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&hl=en on the effects of immigration and the runaway population growth of third world countries.... Cedars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jungjedi Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 they are letting in so many immigrants so they can pay into social security.the same thing is happening in europe.read this book.the comming generational storm.it has a whole chapter on immigration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Here's a great presentation on the effects of immigration and the runaway population growth of third world countries.... OMFG! Thanks C1ay. The presentation is staggering in its implications & simplicity. :shrug: Here's the web site recommended at the end of the piece. >> NumbersUSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedars Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Good link C1ay. Even if his numbers turn out to be twice as high as reality, it is still a legitimate point about exhausting the resources and infrastructure and increasing immigration/granting amnesty does nothing to improve that condition. I had run across the NumbersUSA site a while back and found alot of its information useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 "Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to meI lift my lamp beside the golden door!" The times they are indeed a'changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 they are letting in so many immigrants so they can pay into social security. That would solve nothing. The rate of immigration exceeds the rate of growth of the infrastructure needed to support the growth of the population as a whole. It's not just social security but the roads, schools, hospitals, housing, etc. that cannot keep up. The end result is a third world standard of living for the whole of the human population... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 The rate of immigration exceeds the rate of growth of the infrastructure needed to support the growth of the population as a whole. It's not just social security but the roads, schools, hospitals, housing, etc. that cannot keep up. The end result is a third world standard of living for the whole of the human population... Wouldn't the above be more appropriately framed as a population issue, as opposed to an immigration issue? I agree fully with your point, and appreciated the presentation linked, but see this as less national and more global. The numbers work the same way across the planet, not just within a single nations borders. Simply adjust the first part of your quote to, "The rate of population growth exceeds..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Also, keep in mind that when the first European settlers arrived in America, there was not lacking infrastructure, there was no infrastructure. It's a bit hypocritical to see immigrants as a problem, when America is a country of immigrants. Everything you see around you in the US was designed and built by immigrants and their offspring. Immigration have only been good to the US, unless you're an American Indian, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedars Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 "Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to meI lift my lamp beside the golden door!" The times they are indeed a'changing. Thats all nice and everything but it has no basis in law, government, or the reality of the current situation. Its part of a poem. Emma Lazarus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Some history on Immigration Laws: Naturalization Act of 1790 - Stipulated that "any alien, being a free white person, may be admitted to become a citizen of the United States"1875 Supreme Court declared that regulation of US immigration is the responsibility of the Federal Government. US immigration History The point being immigration has never been a free for all, nor was it intended to be a free for all, despite what the poems author envisioned/interpreted. TheBigDog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Thats all nice and everything but it has no basis in law, government, or the reality of the current situation. Its part of a poem. You're quite right, of course. Those few lines have no basis in law or government. It is nothing legal or binding. It is the embodiment of the philosophy the US is all about. Or was about. And it's sad, really, to see how immigrants who found their fortunes under the philosophy of freedom and liberty are now denying other immigrants the same opportunity, based on arguments such as lacking infrastructure, etc. The infrastructure currently in place, was, after all, built on the sweat and tears of immigrants, yet again. Nationalism is a disease of the mind. Nationalism have given us nazism and apartheid. And all of that in the last 100-odd years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 It's a bit hypocritical to see immigrants as a problem... If you watched the video you would see that immigration IS NOT the problem, it's the rate of immigration that is the problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted June 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Wouldn't the above be more appropriately framed as a population issue, as opposed to an immigration issue? For the U.S. the current issue is the rate of immigration but for the world, it is the rate of population growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 The end result is a third world standard of living for the whole of the human population...The interesting thing of course is that this is the end goal of those who want to uncap H1B visas, and other limits on immigration: its all about cheap labor. With the H1-B issue, whining by Microsoft, Oracle and others that they can't find enough trained programmers is hogwash: I know many starving programmers, but they all have mortgages and kids and demand real wages. Its much cheaper to bring in a poor Indian who has this visa being held over her head as ransom: "be happy with your substandard wage or I'll stop my sponsorship and you have to go back home." For all intents and purposes, that's indentured servitude. These companies are apoplectic right now because the current bill takes away the sponsorship provision for H1-B's and lets those who get them go to work for any one they want to--and they're fighting against it even though the number of H1-B's is *doubled*. Follow the money,Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Wouldn't the above be more appropriately framed as a population issue, as opposed to an immigration issue? I agree fully with your point, and appreciated the presentation linked, but see this as less national and more global. The numbers work the same way across the planet, not just within a single nations borders. Simply adjust the first part of your quote to, "The rate of population growth exceeds..." :eek2: Good grief Molly! Let's just take the bolded. Tell us any other nation on the planet that people are trying to get into at the rate people are trying to get into the US. The numbers assuredly work this way only for the US. Either we get immigration back to sustainable levels or our system wil continue to choke. Like an engine needs gas to run, but if you jam too much fuel in it it chokes & dies. :eek: :eek_big: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 You're quite right, of course. Those few lines have no basis in law or government. It is nothing legal or binding. It is the embodiment of the philosophy the US is all about. Or was about. And it's sad, really, to see how immigrants who found their fortunes under the philosophy of freedom and liberty are now denying other immigrants the same opportunity, based on arguments such as lacking infrastructure, etc. The infrastructure currently in place, was, after all, built on the sweat and tears of immigrants, yet again. Nationalism is a disease of the mind. Nationalism have given us nazism and apartheid. And all of that in the last 100-odd years. Its not 1850-1920 anymore. Philosophies change with the times.You're also not taking into consideration the sheer number of Immigrants involved... What were those numbers then compared to now?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Part of the Immigration problem is the education level of those immigrants.. Educated immigrants add to the economy and create jobs.Uneducated laborer immigrants cost the taxpayers and lower wages.;especially in large numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 :eek_big: Good grief Molly! Let's just take the bolded. Tell us any other nation on the planet that people are trying to get into at the rate people are trying to get into the US. The numbers assuredly work this way only for the US. Sorry mate. You are not correct. Each of the following countries has higher migrant per capita than the US: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2112.htmlPortugalMayotteNew ZealandAustraliaGuernseyMacauHong KongLiechtensteinIrelandAnguillaIsle of ManBotswanaCanadaJordanAndorraBurundiNorthern Mariana IslandsMonacoSingaporeLuxembourgBritish Virgin IslandsBosnia and HerzegovinaTurks and Caicos IslandsArubaSan MarinoQatarKuwaitCayman IslandsUnited Arab EmiratesLiberia An NPR webcast that I found whilst searching for the above: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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