UK Schools Drop Holocaust to Protect Muslim Sensibilities

[freeztar]

Note that the article also mentions the study’s findings that a school (meaning its teachers) was “strongly challenged by some Christian parents for their treatment of the Arab-Israeli conflict-and the history of the state of Israel that did not accord with the teachings of their denomination”, not just Muslim students and parents.

 

My sister teaches high school biology in the southern Virginia, USA, and is nearly daily harassed by teachers and parents for her teaching of the state and county approved evolutionary biology texts. She has been a few times threatened with physical violence. From her accounts, it’s easy for me to understand how teachers, in the US, UK, or elsewhere, can be so intimidated or simply exasperated that they chose to just skip controversial subject matter. Though such a decision shows, I believe, a lack of courage and commitment, these are all too common human failings.

 

In undertaking studies like the one reported, the UK Dept. of Education and Skills is, I think, taking a positive step to better understand and support the teachers who must confront these problems each working day. I applaud them.

 

The true roots of Holocaust denial, IMHO, lie with small minority of people spread widely but thinly across many nations and religious traditions, who harbor a hatred of Jews as intense as the Nazi planners and implementers of the Holocaust did seventy years ago. As long as the vast majority of the world’s people who are naturally appalled by such genocide have the courage to resist this hateful minority, I don’t believe it can prevail.

 

I thought it needed repeating. :hyper:

[CraigD]

Who the F* gives the Muslim minority in the UK to say what should be taught in public schools?

Lawyers who want to ban anything "Offensive"

Racoon, I believe you have misread the Daily Mail article you quoted in post #1. It mentions nothing about Muslims or lawyers who want to ban anything. It describes a study commissioned by the UK government to determine if and to what extent individual teachers and schools were failing to teach unbiased history out of fear of offending Muslim (or, in at least one case mentioned, Christian) students and parents, and the study’s conclusion that this is occurring. Having this information, the Department for Education and Skills is now better able to create policies and provide resources to prevent these omissions.

 

It’s not the place of a progressive modern government to demand that its citizens believe or reject the tenets of any religion, but it is its place to insist that those who obtain diplomas in state-provided schools at least know unbiased and objective history. Like fundamentalist required to learn evolutionary biology, people cannot be made to believe, but they can be made to hear, read and learn.

[Racoon]

Too many people are too easily offended.

 

The truth shouldn't be buried becuz Jahbib al-<moderated> and Jane <moderated> want their narrow minded version of "unoffensiveness" taught..

 

Since when does a minority dictate what the majority should be learning?

This whole "Offends Me" is bullshit. Thank the ACLU and their campaign to steralize everything into ignorance.

Deal with it! or go back to your own country if its that disturbing.

 

That would be like me , moving into your family home, and telling you how to run the place.. and then call a lawyer if you don't follow through with my requests, to make sure you do..

 

Its a bunch of crap!

And you here people don't know what they're teaching about at the Mosques! so quit pretending its all hunky-dory-happy hug your new infadel neighbor stuff.

 

Ask the troops in Iraq.. Many Muslim people are your friend during the day, but the same muslims will kill you at night given the chance..

 

Thats the way it is.

[Qfwfq]

Muslims make too many demands, and insist on their way of seeing things..

So do many other people, especially religious.

 

Let's not forget the Muslim Nazis either>>>

Tell The Children The Truth - Homepage

I don't find it surprising that Hitler was allied with the Ottomans and some other Muslim states. I knew they were also allied with Iran. They were also allied with Italy, Japan and Finland.

 

"Muselmänner" was actually one of the nicknames the SS guards used for their prisonners ! Already in 1947 there was a book published (in Dutch) by a political prisoner who survived the camps, the book was titled "Wir Muselmänner". ("Wij, Muselmänner" by Rene Lambrechts, ed. EPO, isbn: 9789064453786 · 2005 · paperback (15 x 22,5 cm) - 272p.. · price: € 20.00) It has been reprinted at least twice, but to my knowledge there is no English translation available. But this use of the nickname "Muselmänner" is confirmed by other whitnesses, and by some billboards in the camps.

According Primo Levi's account of Monowitz, the term was used amongst the Jewish Häftlinge to indicate those that were in the worst conditions, physical and psychological. Levi says he had no idea why the term was used, but I suspect it was simply because the Arabic word means 'submitted'; perhaps also the SS, who played a lot of subtle tactics against the pride and dignity of the Jews, figured it to be a great humiliation for those of the Jewish religion.

 

Since when does a minority dictate what the majority should be learning?

It seems as if that study has the purpose of warning gov't so they can make sure it doesn't happen.

 

BTW, where did Craig mention his Muslim mosque and prayer visits?

[Boerseun]

Its a bunch of crap!

And you here people don't know what they're teaching about at the Mosques!

As opposed to you, who do. Please enlighten me about the teachings at the Mosque.

Ask the troops in Iraq.. Many Muslim people are your friend during the day, but the same muslims will kill you at night given the chance..

 

Thats the way it is. :eek_big:

Fortunately, that's not the way it is. Out of a given sample of ten million Muslims, we only get to hear about the hundred or so militant nutcases - those who don't blow up stuff and kill infidels are unfortunately not deemed newsworthy, although they make up the vast majority. The real danger lies in us accepting that particular tiny group of idiots as representative of the whole.

 

Imagine for a second a Martian lands in the US, in Klan territory whilst a cross-burning and lynching is taking place. If that's the extent of his sample, what impression would he have of the average American citizen? You are the Martian, and your Muslims are the Klan members in this example.

 

Be very careful in labelling people. Most people who share this planet with you, are kind, caring and tolerant people - regardless of their race, religion or nationality. You just have the misfortune of not having met them yet.

[Racoon]

Forgive me if I start to generalize a religion and its followers.

Are all 1.2+ Billion Muslims going to fit in 1 category?

Of course Not!

Most people here are un-religious, and I have difficulty acccepting Islam, and get a little pissed at their antics.

So Sue Me.

 

Guess I find myself questioning all their stuff... and not liking it.

 

Todays News:

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18176156/

ISTANBUL, Turkey - Assailants tied up three people at a publishing house that distributes Bibles in Turkey and then slit their throats Wednesday, adding to a string of attacks apparently targeting the country’s tiny Christian minority.

 

Making up less than 1 percent of Turkey’s 70 million people, Christians have increasingly become targets amid what some fear is a rising tide of hostility toward non-Muslims.

 

A site that monitors Islamic Activities:

 

Jihad Watch

[Racoon]

As opposed to you, who do. Please enlighten me about the teachings at the Mosque.

 

Fortunately, that's not the way it is. Out of a given sample of ten million Muslims, we only get to hear about the hundred or so militant nutcases - those who don't blow up stuff and kill infidels are unfortunately not deemed newsworthy, although they make up the vast majority. The real danger lies in us accepting that particular tiny group of idiots as representative of the whole.

 

.

 

A survey of Muslims in the UK , about 50% want Sharia Law..

 

Documentary Exposes Radical Muslim Rhetoric

 

This isn't about a few hundred nutcases.. Its an Idealogical movement, and the moderates aren't drawaing attention to themselves, but not stopping the radicals either.

Wake up.

 

You Boerseun, are one of the biggest anti-religion proponents here.. Yet you advocate not knowing enough Muslims as a fault..??

[Qfwfq]

I think the troubles in Turkey are largely due to the diehards that don't accept the Ataturk model of a laic state. Those who attacked the Zirve employees are suspected of belonging to the Grey Bears, just like Mehmet Ali Agca who is mentioned in the page you link to. I remember seeing a recording of him, in the courtroom, claiming a few things including being the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. I wonder how many Muslims believe he is.

[Boerseun]

You Boerseun, are one of the biggest anti-religion proponents here.. Yet you advocate not knowing enough Muslims as a fault..??

Racoon, you are attributing murderous intent to people based on their religion. You use words such as "All of them", etc. You are generalising.

 

I oppose religion by definition. I personally suspect that all religions are mass delusions. But I'm also of the opinion that the majority of adherents of *all* religions are inherently nice, good and peaceful people. Can you imagine what the world would have looked like if they weren't?

 

I'm opposed to the religion. Not the adherents. They might be ill-informed in my opinion, but they're not *bad* people.

 

I don't particularly appreciate you calling me a hypocrite.

 

There's the overall objection the the *concept* of religion, and then there's the bigotry of wrongly ascribing nasty attributes to *one* of them.

 

Wake up, and smell the distinction.

[maikeru]

Unfortunate. The teachers should be willing of teaching the best knowledge of history we have, and not try to just avoid upsetting people. History is one means by which we can learn from the past and avoid mistakes in the future.

 

We need to be quick to not condemn Muslims. We should also try to understand them. But understanding another doesn't mean that you agree with a person.

 

I think I mentioned in my Old West thread that I've encountered warped history in my community and schools for much of my life. Heck, I was brought up on the story that Jewish people came to the Americas in 600 B.C. to populate them and bring salvation to the New World. That's okay, I haven't been scarred emotionally for life. But it was a crock. These UK teachers should not do their students the same disservice of covering up or withholding vital historical information and different viewpoints just because some else would be offended. It's not quite as bad as lying, but it's almost the same.

[Racoon]

I find it funny how science people who are against religious totalitarian practices suddenly become practitioners of open-mindedness when it come to tolerating a religion that doesn't tolerate you..

 

 

:hihi:

 

Jihad Watch

[Turtle]

I saw this lady interviewed the other night on PBS. >>> The official website of Irshad Manji, author of The Trouble with Islam Today and creator of Project Ijtihad.

My sense is her message and information supports Racoon's contention that the distortion of Islam is widespread and directed with a religious bias towards non-Muslims. Eye wide open. :hihi: :D

[InfiniteNow]

Muslims make too many demands, and insist on their way of seeing things. <…> Muslims want to take over if not kill the Infidels.

They don't want you to learn about the Jewish Holocaust. <…> Deal with it! or go back to your own country if its that disturbing.

 

According to your logic, these practitioners of certain religions don’t “tolerate” others, and hence we should not tolerate them in return? If you truly are against their motivations and the lack of tolerance you perceive, why are you here doing the same thing?

 

The thinking that has you so outraged Racoon… is simply others doing the same exact thing you are doing here. Accepting, espousing, propagating, and being led like a sheep by an “us and them” mentality. What makes your decision to dismiss all muslims as evil any more valid than some extremists decision to dismiss all non-muslims as infidels?

 

What I take issue with is your insistence that certain specific characteristics are indicative/causative of hate and ignorance. Do I acknowledge that there are Muslim people out there who really have nutcase ideololgies? Of course! Do I attribute nutcase ideologies to some single characteristic such as religious following or country of origin? Absolutely not.

 

Reality is what you make of it.

 

My sense is her message and information supports Racoon's contention that the distortion of Islam is widespread and directed with a religious bias towards non-Muslims.

I fear that Racoon’s contentions are themselves distorted, and have gone far beyond actual truths. Also, I may be mistaken, but his tone implies much much more than a statement of widespread bias and seems to argue in favor of understanding people by the color of their skin… ahem… errr... I mean their chosen teachings of spirituality.

 

We see what we choose to see, even when inaccurate or non-representative.

 

What I see is too many people on all sides being herded by the shepherds of disinformation and hate.

 

 

Always more in common than different. Always.

[CraigD]

I saw this lady interviewed the other night on PBS. >>> The official website of Irshad Manji, author of The Trouble with Islam Today and creator of Project Ijtihad.

My sense is her message and information supports Racoon's contention that the distortion of Islam is widespread and directed with a religious bias towards non-Muslims.

I’m uncertain what you mean, Turtle.

 

Do you sense that Manji message is that Islam has been distorted to promote violence, or do you sense that Manji is attempting to deceive non-Muslims into believing that Muslims do not intend to harm them, when they actually do?

[Turtle]

I fear that Racoon’s contentions are themselves distorted, and have gone far beyond actual truths. Also, I may be mistaken, but his tone implies much much more than a statement of widespread bias and seems to argue in favor of understanding people by the color of their skin… ahem… errr... I mean their chosen teachings of spirituality.

 

We see what we choose to see, even when inaccurate or non-representative.

 

What I see is too many people on all sides being herded by the shepherds of disinformation and hate.

 

Always more in common than different. Always.

 

Rather, the greatest commanality we all share is our differences of opinion. What else have we if we may not judge people by their actions and words? I hear your objections, but they seem to lie with the conclusions drawn from the data in the links rather than with the data itself.

 

I’m uncertain what you mean, Turtle.

 

Do you sense that Manji message is that Islam has been distorted to promote violence, or do you sense that Manji is attempting to deceive non-Muslims into believing that Muslims do not intend to harm them, when they actually do?

 

The former; I sense Manji's message is that Islam is being distorted to justify violence, suppresion of education, and equal roles in society for women to name a few. On the greater scale, I find it not atypical of most of the great historical religions to covertly allow if not overtly demand said violence, suppression of education, denegration of women, etcetera. So it goes. :eek_big:

[Qfwfq]

a religion that doesn't tolerate you..

 

:hihi:

 

Jihad Watch

A religion, or a bunch of fanatics? We have our own intolerant fanatics. Islam preaches religious freedom. The fanatics of many religions preach intolerance.

 

...For half a century, the West has preferred to believe that its choice in Saudi Arabia is the moderate, friendly Saudi royal family or the wild-eyed, sandal-clad zombies of jihad, disregarding the seamless relationship between the two.

 

We have blithely ignored that Mr. bin Laden was a product and a protégé — even a full-fledged member — of the ruling establishment in Saudi Arabia. Indeed, his 52 brothers and other members of his family have intermarried widely with the royal family.

To the point that Osama bin Laden had been a collaborator of the CIA, when our western countries were supporting the Taleban in kicking the Soviets out of Afghanistan and propping up Saddam Hussein against Iran.

 

:)

[maikeru]

The former; I sense Manji's message is that Islam is being distorted to justify violence, suppresion of education, and equal roles in society for women to name a few. On the greater scale, I find it not atypical of most of the great historical religions to covertly allow if not overtly demand said violence, suppression of education, denegration of women, etcetera. So it goes. :hihi:

 

Does seem that most historical religions are guilty of this or at least practitioners and many interpreters are guilty. Suppression--of freedoms, of knowledge, and of women--is the name of the game when it comes to control and power. There's something seriously wrong when people cannot think, feel, or be.