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Solving Global Warming: DANGER!


Boerseun
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Heard on the radio just now that some English environmentalists are warning the British to stop buying flowers from Holland, and to rather buy flowers that was grown in Kenya. The reason for this is that the Dutch flowers are grown in hothouses that generate a lot of carbon dioxide, and the Kenyan flowers are grown in the open, producing less greenhouse gases.

 

The danger with this, of course, is that it totally ignores the pollution caused by the dedicated 747 cargo planes needed to fly the flowers in to London from Kenya.

 

Do we face a danger of politicians climbing on the "Stop Global Warming" bandwagon, offering populistic, quick-and-easy solutions to Global Warming, without actually understanding the issue, and offering solutions that cause more damage than what the original situation would have?

 

On the face of it, the Kenyan flower issue does make sense. But only because not all the variables have been considered.

 

How real is this danger?

 

I think we might be sitting with an emergent problem here...

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Might wanna repair the link, Boerseun.

 

I'm not even sure if the approach is sensible. To try and get rid of carbon-di-oxide producing lifeforms doesn't seem like the best idea.

 

Not too long ago, we had come across a suggestion here at hypo, that carbon-di-oxide producing people(as in respiratory) were at fault.

 

This is a problem allright.

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I don't think the claim was that the flowers from Holland were causing more co2, I believe it was that more energy was needed to grow the flowers in Holland than those in Kenya. Thus leading to more co2 production.

 

I agree with B, the co2 expended in the delivery of the flowers is probably more than the added co2 due to the greenhouses in holland. The best bet, would be to order flowers grown in your local area:)

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The reason for this is that the Dutch flowers are grown in hothouses that generate a lot of carbon dioxide, and the Kenyan flowers are grown in the open, producing less greenhouse gases.

 

The danger with this, of course, is that it totally ignores the pollution caused by the dedicated 747 cargo planes needed to fly the flowers in to London from Kenya.

 

Well hot houses do produce CO2 but what about the vehicles that run about daily? clearly if we go on increasing the rate of CO2 we will be surely sealing our fate cause i recollect reading in the book that after a lots of millions of years from now life will be eradicated and the Earths surface will melt and if possible will be consumed by the sun (the earth i mean)

PLS correct me if i am wrong

TBA

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Well hot houses do produce CO2 but what about the vehicles that run about daily?

Off the top of my head, I believe that vehicle/transportation does contribute more co2 to the atmosphere than hot houses, so I would agree there.

 

clearly if we go on increasing the rate of CO2 we will be surely sealing our fate...

So far, I agree...

 

cause i recollect reading in the book that after a lots of millions of years from now life will be eradicated and the Earths surface will melt and if possible will be consumed by the sun (the earth i mean)

PLS correct me if i am wrong

TBA

 

I can't say you are right or wrong about reading the book that said this. You very well may have. In a few billion years our sun is expected to go nova and burn up the earth in it's final throughs.

 

However, I would say you are wrong in drawing any connection between this event and our co2 production. We could drive co2 to 5 times the current levels (heck, 100 times) and it would not destroy the earth's ecosystem. It would radically change it, but it would not destroy all life. Human's may not like the new ecosphere, and many of us may perish, but I doubt that anything we do will destroy ALL human life, just some:eek:

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Some hot houses, will actually add extra CO2 from a CO2 canister. So we get the flowers from Kenya and spend more fossil fuel to ship them. The global warming bandwagan is getting silly. We need to limit the amount of exercise people are allowed to get at the gym. Aerobics, especially, causes humans to generate more CO2 and body heat. We need more couch potatos.

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I can't say you are right or wrong about reading the book that said this. You very well may have. In a few billion years our sun is expected to go nova and burn up the earth in it's final throughs.

 

However, I would say you are wrong in drawing any connection between this event and our co2 production. We could drive co2 to 5 times the current levels (heck, 100 times) and it would not destroy the earth's ecosystem. It would radically change it, but it would not destroy all life. Human's may not like the new ecosphere, and many of us may perish, but I doubt that anything we do will destroy ALL human life, just some:eek:

 

well wont it get very hot enough and the intense heat will eradicate life and melt the surface of the earth ?

just asking

TBA

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well wont it get very hot enough and the intense heat will eradicate life and melt the surface of the earth ?

just asking

TBA

 

Yes, in a few billion years. However, that will not happen due to co2 emmisions.

 

What is predicted to happen with too much co2 in the atmosphere is the earth will retain more heat from the sun warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere will be capable of holding more water in vapor form.

Because of the additional energy in the atmosphere weather will become more violent. Increases in global temperatures will lead to changes in the weather patterns.

 

Current models predict such things as earlier snow melts, more severe droughts in the SW of the USA. Fewer days of rain in SE Asia, however the rain events in SE Asia will be more severe leading to more annual rainfall in fewer days (i.e. more floods).

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Yes, in a few billion years. However, that will not happen due to co2 emmisions.

I don't think we can confidently say what will happen, nor what to expect.

 

A runaway greenhouse effect have caused Venus to sit choking in a 400C-plus atmosphere, and this is mostly due to carbon dioxide.

 

A too-small greenhouse effect have effectively screwed up Mars as fit for human habitation, as well.

 

We need a greenhouse effect. But I think we don't know nearly enough about the matter to make sure predictions such as this.

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I can, with a great level of confidence, say that the earth's crust will not melt anytime in the next million years (yes, parts of it will, but the vast majority of the surface will not). I also feel very confident in predicting that in a few billion years our sun will go Nova and destroy life on the earth. I am also very confident that this will happen regardless of the co2 content of our atmosphere.

 

As to what co2 will do, I agree, it is difficult to be specific and confident. However, I am confident and basic chemistry and physics seem to support the idea that the air will be able to hold more water vapor as it warms. And that as the air holds more energy (as it warms) weather will become more violent.

 

I make no predictions about HOW much warmer the air will become or HOW much more violent weather will be. I will leave that to people that study climate more than I.

 

So I feel very confident in my statements.

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One reason Global Warming will not stop is, Oil.

Our country is ran by people who are directly involved to oil by ownership of companies, families, and investments. One extremely well known example is our president and our vice president, Bush's family owns oil and Cheney also once owned his own company, but he was practically forced to sell it. The greed greatly over powers the needs of fellow americans and fellow humans on our earth, global warming can not and will not be stopped, so you may as well get used to it.

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So I feel very confident in my statements.

I agree that the surface won't melt. But if Earth were to suffer a runaway greenhouse effect to the tune of having temperatures in the 400's, life as we know it will simply cease to be. ALL life will end, even the hardiest extremophiles can't survive that.

 

Besides - a hotter atmosphere can hold more water vapour, sure - but water vapour is also a greenhouse gas, heating the planet even more. The cycle feeds itself, and you can be as confident as you wish, if you take ten scientists and ask them what will happen, you will get eleven different opinions as to how hot it'll get, and if we'd survive.

 

If it turns into a self-reinforcing runaway event, we're screwed. Nobody knows whether it's the case or not, however.

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Boerseun, what i meant was that all the water will evaporate leaving behind a surface without a cooling agent. thus the heat from the sun will heat and heat the earth till the surface reaches a melting like stage

 

TBA

Hardly! The atmosphere can only hold so much water before it gets supersaturated and the water must condense and rain out. But water is no cooling agent, in the grand scheme of things. Water is a thermal buffer, and the oceans will heat as the rest of the planet heats, just a tiny tad slower. But it will heat, nonetheless.

 

What's cooling the planet is clear, clean skies. At night, the heat induced by sunlight during daytime is radiated back to space. Greenhouse gases reflect the radiation back to the surface, effectively trapping the day's heat on the planet. Next morning the sun comes up, heating the surface that's still hot from yesterday because it cannot shed the heat because of atmospheric conditions. So, it gets hotter and hotter, every day's heat spilling over to the next day.

 

Baking hot deserts like the Sahara, Kalahari and Namib deserts, reaching temperatures well into the 50Cs during daytime, are some of the coldest parts of the planet (save the polar caps, of course) during nighttime, because of the clean, dry air. Like I said, water vapour is prolly one of the biggest culprits in heat retention, and the deserts lack water in the air. So, if you want to go to the Sahara, be sure to pack warm, as stupid as that may sound.

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One reason Global Warming will not stop is, Oil.

Interestingly, all the oil wasn't 'always' there. It was produced from the dead remains of 'once living' organisms. Assuming that all these living organisms derived their carbon from the atmospheric reserves, I would guess that the carbon di oxide content was once quite a lot.

 

Not only that, there is a really enormous variety of life forms today on earth. Thankfully, this variety also consists of life forms that can sustain in rather hot environments. My guess is that in case of a possible runaway green house effect, all the water won't accumulate in the atmosphere, and these organisms will have a chance.

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