Is our mind totally electronic?

[stanleyg]

Is our mind totally electronic, since everything in our universe is composed of electrons? It may explain bizarre human behaviors.

 

Let's suppose that our human encephalon converted the energy dissipated from electrons in our environment to a corresponding electrical output. It would mean that the stimuli or reaction is equal to each other.

 

Conceptually, to correct human behaviors, it may be necessary to modify the input to change the output.

 

For example: A negative input would generate a negative output. Conversely, a positive input would generate a positive output. To gain a different result, an inverter gate is necessary to flip flop the output to be opposite the input.

[IDMclean]

A negative times a negative will always be a positive.

 

anyway.

 

As for electric? Basically yes.

 

My premise is that all phenomena arises from magnetic monopoles... so eletric phenomena would be part of the whole magnetic thing.

[UncleAl]

Brain functon is primarily ion segregation and flux not electron flows. Processing isl modulated by a dozen or so chemical neurotransmitters. Function is structural as well as excitation and inhibition. The brain appears to operate by cosensus rather than discrete element logic flow.

[ronthepon]

(To explain UncleAl's first part)The impulses that run in neurons is not a flow of electrons, as in a metal wire. It is quite different.

 

What actually happens is that a wave of positive charge flow happens. Overall, not one ion is transferred all over the length. Of the impulse.

 

Kind of like in a normal logitudinal wave. It's not a bunch of matter particles that moves, but it's the... the... disturbance that moves.

 

And No, our mind in not totally electronic. It depends to a very very lage extent of chemical based control also.

 

Now that was some nessecary basic info UncleAl pointed at.

 

Now, what are you hinting at, stanleyg?

[HydrogenBond]

Electronic as we know it involves electrons and negative charge. But the brain makes use of positive charge. As such, it is almost anti-electronic, in the traditional sense of electronics. Unlike computer memory based on bits or on-off switches, the neuro-transmittors create variable switches, that work like a dimmer switches instead of on-off switches.

 

The brain is different from a computer in that it can create variable global memory affects. In other words, the brain is bathed in cerebral spinal fluid. Changing the potential of this fluid will have a global impact on the synapses. It sort of sets the dimmer switches a certain way that becomes the foundation of a memory layer associated with the cerebral spinal fluid potential.

 

For example , when men think with their lower brains, and become linear with respect to females, the dimmer switches are set globally. This tends to organize/active memory and physical dynamics down that line.

[infamous]

(To explain UncleAl's first part)The impulses that run in neurons is not a flow of electrons, as in a metal wire. It is quite different.

 

What actually happens is that a wave of positive charge flow happens. Overall, not one ion is transferred all over the length. Of the impulse.

 

Kind of like in a normal logitudinal wave. It's not a bunch of matter particles that moves, but it's the... the... disturbance that moves.

 

 

Excellent points ron...., I especially liked the discription you labled as "disturbance". Very good points,.......................Infy

[HydrogenBond]

The conduction medium for the positive charge is water. The cations carry around hydration spheres or organized shells of water limiting their mobility and imparting their affects to the hydrogen protons and oxygen of the water. The nervous wave signals are unusual in that they don't go anywhere near the speed of light. If one was to step of a brontosaurus's toe, it would take a second or two before he looked around.

 

This propagation of positive wave is sort of interesting if one thinks about it. With positive charge moving instead of negative charge, it sort of amounts to the orbital electrons of atoms acting like a second layer of the nucleus of an atom, with the positive charge floating on top. This third layer of chemistry is the basis for life and consciousness, i.e, nucleus, electrons, positive charge.

[Edella]

The conduction medium for the positive charge is water.

I thought water was non-conductive HB.It is the salts and metals in water that gives it its conductivity.Have I missed something?

 

Cheers,

Ed

[ronthepon]

Tsk, Hydrogen Bond, In a nerve impulse there is no movement of charge or whatever. There is just an apparent movement of positive potential inside the nerve cell.

 

This increased potential inside is formed by the inflow of Na+ ions into the nerve.(This is called depolarisation) Potential inside the nerve cell in that part increases.

 

The potential is reduced to conditions of rest again by efflux of K+ ions from the nerve cell.(This is repolarisation)

 

The above two activities are controlled and performed by Na+ and K+ 'transmembrane pumps'

 

This depolarisation-repolarisation continues as a wave along a nerve fibre, and this is called a nervous impulse.

 

Why else, after intense brain activity do our neurons in the brain get to an ion imbalance... leading to the effect called 'mental fatigue'?

 

I hope this clears it up, because I am absolutely sure of my assertions.

[Mercedes Benzene]

I hope this clears it up, because I am absolutely sure of my assertions.

 

Listen to ron.

He hit it right on the nose!:edizzy:

[IDMclean]

Ron you contridict yourself. though technically correct your statement of:

 

Tsk, Hydrogen Bond, In a nerve impulse there is no movement of charge or whatever. There is just an apparent movement of positive potential inside the nerve cell.

 

There is transmission of information, obviously. Though the charge may not propagate via mass transfer, the movement of the charge creates a distortion which propagates by proxy.

 

(Note: in my theorm all charge is magnetic fundamentally, magnetic fields transfer torque (might be spin, but I know it's related to angular momentum) but not energy, unless I am mistaken. This transfer of torque via magnetic field would be the distortion event that propagates resulting in a chain reaction of torque in the system.)

 

Other than that, right on, Ron, man.

 

PS: HydrogenBond, man have you checked out my Relative Charge Dynamics thread? I posted something of special interest to you, that I would like your opinion on.

[ronthepon]

I do lack an ability to explain myself properly... To try and clean that up,

 

Apparent.

 

movement of

 

Positive potential.

 

Like this

 

|-|+

|-|+

|-|+

 

(This is a nerve fibre with | being the walls, and + and - are the charge amounts.)

-->

 

|+|<Na+ ions gone in

|-|+

|-|+

 

-->

 

|-|+ >K+ ions come out

|+|<Na+ ions gone in

|-|+

 

-->

 

|-|+

|-|+

|+|

 

--> so on.

[stanleyg]

(To explain UncleAl's first part)The impulses that run in neurons is not a flow of electrons, as in a metal wire. It is quite different.

 

What actually happens is that a wave of positive charge flow happens. Overall, not one ion is transferred all over the length. Of the impulse.

 

Kind of like in a normal logitudinal wave. It's not a bunch of matter particles that moves, but it's the... the... disturbance that moves.

 

And No, our mind in not totally electronic. It depends to a very very lage extent of chemical based control also.

 

Now that was some nessecary basic info UncleAl pointed at.

 

Now, what are you hinting at, stanleyg?

 

In essence you are saying that protons have the dynamic quality of movement same as electrons. I have always been taught that the protons are static. Then, again we learn something new everyday. Now, I like to know that when the protons become dynamic do the electrons move inside the nucleus to become static?

[stanleyg]

I do lack an ability to explain myself properly... To try and clean that up,

 

Apparent.

 

movement of

 

Positive potential.

 

Like this

 

|-|+

|-|+

|-|+

 

(This is a nerve fibre with | being the walls, and + and - are the charge amounts.)

-->

 

|+|<Na+ ions gone in

|-|+

|-|+

 

-->

 

|-|+ >K+ ions come out

|+|<Na+ ions gone in

|-|+

 

-->

 

|-|+

|-|+

|+|

 

--> so on.

 

I agree with your first nine words. Everything you said after that confirms it.

[ronthepon]

In essence you are saying that protons have the dynamic quality of movement same as electrons. I have always been taught that the protons are static. Then, again we learn something new everyday. Now, I like to know that when the protons become dynamic do the electrons move inside the nucleus to become static?

:doh: My god you just do not get it!!

 

Protons do not move.

 

Ions do. That too positively charged ions. (a.k.a. cations)

They move in aqueous medium by the process of controlled diffusion. This controlled diffusion is controlled by certain gates present on the walls of the nerve cell.

 

Get that?

 

And have you heard of hydrogen ions? As in acids? There protons are mobile. That does not have anything to do with this case.

 

There! I've explained the basics of the basic info. Now if you don't get it, it's because you have not tried to.

[InfiniteNow]

They move in aqueous medium by the process of controlled diffusion. This controlled diffusion is controlled by certain gates present on the walls of the nerve cell.

The following link may take a few moments to load, but it provides a pretty clear overview of Sodium/Potassium gated nerve impulse conduction as well as other attributes of the nervous system. Also has some nice Golgi stains and other useful graphics for the visually oriented learner:

 

http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/biobk/BioBookNERV.html

 

 

Changed polarity of the membrane, the action potential, results in propagation of the nerve impulse along the membrane. An action potential is a temporary reversal of the electrical potential along the membrane for a few milliseconds. Sodium gates and potassium gates open in the membrane to allow their respective ions to cross. Sodium and potassium ions reverse positions by passing through membrane protein channel gates that can be opened or closed to control ion passage. Sodium crosses first. At the height of the membrane potential reversal, potassium channels open to allow potassium ions to pass to the outside of the membrane. Potassium crosses second, resulting in changed ionic distributions, which must be reset by the continuously running sodium-potassium pump. Eventually enough potassium ions pass to the outside to restore the membrane charges to those of the original resting potential.The cell begins then to pump the ions back to their original sides of the membrane.

 

The action potential begins at one spot on the membrane, but spreads to adjacent areas of the membrane, propagating the message along the length of the cell membrane. After passage of the action potential, there is a brief period, the refractory period, during which the membrane cannot be stimulated. This prevents the message from being transmitted backward along the membrane.