Why so many disorders in children?

[HydrogenBond]

The meds are not being used to help to make the kids smarter. They are being used to help control something inside many of them that gets in the way of their ability to focus or have self control. Most of these disorders suggest the unconscious mind is becoming more active in many children as though a type of repression has occurred and is trying to correct itself.

 

I was visiting up north for vacation and a neighbor's child, who is very bright, was totally out of control. His mother took him off his drugs for the summer to rest his liver. It was like he was deaf to his parents and descructive to house and home. When I engaged him he was very self composed, unless his mother was around. When he would visit my sister's house to play with her kids, he was very polite with no outward signs of attention disorder because she won't put up with his crap and he knew it. His disorder appears to be part of a family game dynamics.

[InfiniteNow]

In our evolutionary past, much of our time was spent foraging and hunting for food... for survival. Now, with supermarkets and other cultural/societal assistances, we still have the same proclivity and energy, but it does not get spent the way it used to. So instead, it's turned inward, same energy, different use, and results in many neuroses.

 

The point that we are simply measuring it more and more accurately is an incredibly valid one, however, it must also be coupled witht he fact that we have a different set of daily tasks and needs, but the same evolved tendencies and energy stores which results in more mental issues. The two (more measurement, more issues) are not necessarily seperable.

[IDMclean]

I was visiting up north for vacation and a neighbor's child, who is very bright, was totally out of control. His mother took him off his drugs for the summer to rest his liver. It was like he was deaf to his parents and descructive to house and home. When I engaged him he was very self composed, unless his mother was around. When he would visit my sister's house to play with her kids, he was very polite with no outward signs of attention disorder because she won't put up with his crap and he knew it. His disorder appears to be part of a family game dynamics.

 

Sounds allot like me when I was younger. I had allot of emotional turmoil. Ultimately it arose from allot of things. Injustices experienced, weather real or imagined, Hyper-sensitivity, Alienation, and Isolation.

 

For a while I felt entirely alone, rejected, and generally unloved. Mostly it was just me with my realization of suffering. I suffered because I realized I suffered.

 

What ultimately fixed it was I was placed into a classroom full of kids who truely suffered, in ways I can not compare to. I stopped staring inward at my pain and ended up staring at their's, trying to figure out how to Alliviate their suffering. It transformed my anger/depression into compassion/sympathy.

[HydrogenBond]

I have a question. Hopefully someone knows the answer. Are all these disorders in children, more common in boys or girls? Or are boys more likely to be medicated than girls?

[TheBigDog]

I have a question. Hopefully someone knows the answer. Are all these disorders in children, more common in boys or girls? Or are boys more likely to be medicated than girls?

I think that overall they are more common in boys than girls. But some are gender specific. Aspherger's Syndrome is primarily a male thing (85 or 90%), but eating disorders like bulimia and anorexia are almost exclusively female.

 

Bill

[TheBigDog]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

All of the reason's that you have listed and others have some input into the problem. None of them is the root cause in and of itself in even a sizable minority of the cases. But many of them provide deadly combinations of stacking the odds against people finding success.

 

I have had a crash course in "child conditions" over the past few years. This is going to be a long post, and rather personal, so if you don't want to know the details of my life just skip out at this point and read about something else. As with anything I post I welcome people's comments and suggestions and such. In the classroom of life I am learning along with everyone else. This is my opportunity to stand in front of the class and share...

 

When I got married my wife already had our two oldest boys resulting from two rather miserable relationships. In the almost 11 years that we have been married there has been no attempt by either of the two scumbags to make any contact with me, my wife or the boys. I am the only father they have ever known, and the only one they will ever need. In the past year the law caught up with one of the scumbags and through the magic of garnishments #1 received the first child support payments of his life.

 

#1 and #2 got lucky when Shannon and I got married and I became dad. There are plenty of good men out there, but there are far too many who simply do not take their bonds and responsibilities seriously enough. When you are responsible for bringing children into this world it should not be necessary for the government to intervene to keep you from beating the mother of your children or to provide not just monitarily, but as a role model as well to help guide your children onto paths of self determination and success in life.

 

#1 was six when he and I met. He was a little kid with bifocals and a big vocabulary. I was struck by how well he spoke, and was quite astonished to learn that he had not said an understandable work until he was almost 4 1/2. He was in the first grade. He had once been diagnosed as "borderline ADD" (one indicator short what ever that meant) and was not on any medication at the time.

 

#2 was four when he and I met. He was the cutest little kid with blond hair and big blue eyes. Women loved him and he was a little ladies man. But under the brash demeanor was boiling insecurity that I would not find out about until later. He had a reputation for not listening to ANYONE about ANYTHING and was attending special education pre-school because he had tested poorly for "occupational therapy" :circle:

 

When the boys moved in with me we all got to know each other in a hurry. Shannon had been alone with them for some time, and was living in state assisted living when we met. The fact that she was a functioning bi-polar was still unknown to me. Here are some of the things that I learned about them in the first few weeks....

 

The boys were four and six but could not dress themselves. It was not that they were incapable, but that they had these rituals of crying and helplessness to get attention from Shannon that the three of them had fallen into. So she spent time every morning forcing them into clothes (she was dressing them for school in these little outfits with neckties to send them to school in an attempt to make them fit her vision of them). After school she would change them into play clothes because they were not allowed to play in their school clothes and another round of crying would happen at this transfer. And at night they would cry and fight her as she undressed them and got them into pajamas.

 

Every time she would leave the room they would start destroying things. Nothing in the house was safe, and nothing of value could be left with them and out of adult sight or it would be destroyed.

Quick story... on the morning of Shannon's bridal shower I had to watch the boys by myself for the first time. There was some pretext for getting Shannon out and on the way to the shower without her knowing what was going on, and I had the boys. The only thing I had to do was get to the flower shop and pick up a corsage and bring it to my sister to bring to the shower. I had #1 and #2 sitting in her living room watching TV, and I went to use the bathroom. In the time I was in the bathroom they:

• Got to the top shelf of the bookcase and opened the CD's I had put up there, took the disks out of the cases, dismantled the cases and slid all the parts around on the hardwood floors
  
• Took Shannon's ceramic knick-knacks that she kept on the top shelf down and scattered them around the living room (breaking 2)
  
• Opened and dumped all of the spices from the spice rack in the kitchen onto the livingroom floor, then filled the containers with water and splashed water around the living room and kitchen.
  
• Took the batteries out of the remote controls for the tv and cable box.
  

Now I could not have been out of the living room with them for more than five minutes and all that hell had broken loose in the living room. And mind you I had spoken with them specifically about sitting and waiting for me, and staying out of trouble (silly me :wave: ). I cleaned up a bunch of the mess while I yelled at them. The just laughed at me because they knew that they ran things there way. I then took them out to my car and buckled them into their car seats. I needed to run back into the house to get my car keys. In the thiry seconds I had stepped away #2 managed to pull most of the buttons off of my car stereo (mind you they were both buckled into the back seat). I yelled at him again, with an emphasis on respecting other people's things. When we arrived at the flower store #1 ratted #2 out for having tacken several large bites out of a NERF football that had been in the back seat with them. This was the first time #2 got spanked by me, right there in the parking lot of the flower shop. The football may seem trivial, but the line was drawn and I was going to dictate terms until he got over his need for destruction. After the spanking they were both in a mood for listening. I had them put their hands in the bottom of their pockets and come into the flower shop with me. I can still see them slightly hunched forcing their little hands down, almost up to their elbows in their pants pockets. They made no attempts to touch anything in that store. For the next couple of hours they were angels.

I would come to learn that #1 was quite amoral. He simply did not understand people's feelings and sees all events and facts very differently from everyone else who witnesses the same things. We jokeingly refer to him as "black heart" because of this behavior. Tied to this was a constant struggle with telling the truth. From the age of about 7 he lied about everything. He lied even when there was no consequence to the truth. He lied as though the truth were not an option. And he was a little lawyer, contantly trying to double talk his way out of responsibility for things he had done.

 

#2 was another story. He was a hyperactive little rebel. He recognized no authority. He would run away from you in a store then scream, hollar, drop to the ground, kick, fight, bite, and generally act unpleasant. I remember dragging him the length of a mall with him snarling and spitting and screaming at the top of his voice "get off of me! your hurting me! you can't touch me!" Shannon dealt with them by renting a double stoller for them (they were 4 and 6, they didn't even fit in!) because it was the only way she could keep them under control. I initially dealt with #2 by convincing him that he would never beat me in a stubborn contest. In a battle of wills he had to learn to that I would never break. When he would go into a fit I would sit him on my lap and hold him. And I would not let me go until he stopped fighting me and sat quietly. And if he fell asleep in the effort I would shake him or pinch him to keep him awake. Sometimes I would sit with him for 3 or 4 hours like this until he would finally give up fighting me. Would be exhausted and soaked with sweat, but he would finally relent. This lasted for a month or so, and then he began to listen to me instead of fight me.

 

#2 also struggled in school. I was never sure what the problem was, but he really struggled. Now this may seem cruel, but I am trying hard to be candid here. He often gave the appearance of having no intelligence. Upon closer examination it was not stupidity, but memory that was often the issue.

 

Now along the way we had #3. He was born 14 months after Shannon and I were married. #1 and #2 were very excited when #3 came along. And where they may have had other faults, they were and are terrific big brothers. The most signifcant thing that happened after #3's birth was my change of jobs, and this is a significant event for the dynamic of the whole family. I had been working as a machine operator on midnight shift at a plant in New Jersey. I got a job on the design team for our new business systems and began my move into IT. With this came the switch to being a "road warrior" traveling each week to work someplace in North America, and being home only on the weekends. I did this for the next seven years. At first in an attempt to get out of an unchallenging dead end occupation, and later because (and this is difficult to admit but plays to the situation with the kids) I was hiding from the realities of home life between Shannon and myself related to her mental illness, but those events are not what I am here to discuss. Suffice to say that there was tension between us, and the house became split into two environments - dad home and dad away. And this duality became a huge problem that I would like to think I was unaware of for a long time - but I know the truth.

 

Now back to the story of #2. He to this day has bouts with memory loss that people who do not understand this tend to treat him very cruely. It affects him socially. As a small child he could not remember the rules to games, so if anyone ever handed him the ball, or made him "it", he would change the game or the rules so he would have some idea about what was going on around him. This quickly got him ostrisized by those he was trying to play with and he would end up quitting and sulking. This same scene repeated virtually every time he was put into a social situation that required rules. When rules were not required he was always silly enough to fit in. As he got older we noticed that he was having more and more difficulty fitting in with other kids. He started to seek out kids younger than himself as playmates. And while he started getting older, his friends did not. He ended up going through fits of depression, and ultimatly into therapy. I was not a part of any of the diagnosis and was sceptical of what doctors were teilling us. I was blaming Shannon for poor parenting, and myself for not being around more. It alwasy seemed to me that he responded like any kid when i was dealing with him, but he was constantly locked in habitual patterns of behavior with Shannon. He had been on medications for several months before I ever knew about them. The diagnosis was originally ADHD, but this later changed to a diagnosis of bi-polar. #2 was on a battery of medications. And he belived that he was a victim. His behavior was always to blame on the his medication, or lack of medication, or balance of medication. He believed that his illness and his reliance on medication obsolved him from responsibility for his actions, and he used them like a sheild to try and protect himself from consequences. On the rare occasions that I actually got to go with him to therapy sessions I was alwasy disturbed by what I encountered. The home life described to the therapists was virtually 100% fiction. The exercises given to Shannon and #2 to accomplish were NEVER done, yet were reported as being done regularly. So the lack of progress in therapy was ALWAYS resulting in more medication and constant changes in medication. And based upon the premise that the current medication was ineffective when the other parts of the therapy were not being done at all.

 

Now along the way #3 began to show his own signs of being borderline in some respects. First was very delayed speach. Then obsessive rituals and total reliance upon imaginary and stuffed friends. Alternate reality? Denial of reality? Those were a description of me in dealing with any attempts to diagnose #3 with any sort of condition. But the longer it went, the more obvious it was to me that he was simply not the same as those around him. Today he is diagnosed, and I have learned to accept it, as being either a high functioning autistic, or having Aspherger's Syndrome. It took a very long time for me to accept that.

 

Well, #1 and #2 both went into a charter school program in the 7th and 6th grades respectivly. It was an envoronment where teacher's only had first names, and they dressed like the students. We were hoping that the hands on environment that it promised would trigger some interest in education that was at this point severely lacking in both. It didn't help. In fact it made things worse. The progressive environment gave them both more than ample room to hide in group activities. #1 aspired to new heights of lying and literally did nothing for two and a half years while being advanced through the system because he was showing good self esteem (yeah!:wave: ). Meanwhile #2 was completely imploding in the same school. He missed fully half the days in the 6th grade. He had mastered the art of scary symptoms and buzzwords that make adults fear to not listen. His stomach problems and migranes and hallucinations, and stomach ailments, let him control all of those around him. He was advanced to the seventh grade despite turning in virtually no work and attending just half the school days. God bless progressive education systems!

 

It hit the fan one day when I was travelling. #2 attacked #1 with a garden hoe for getting out of the van first. Shannon could not control him and he stayed violent with everyone. He ended up being committed. At 12 years of age he spent 8 days in an institution, and I knew that things simply had to change. I arranged to be transferred to our headquarters so that I would be home with the family every night. A couple months later he was sent back in again, this time spending 3 days locked up to protect himself. He had run into my bedroom holding a large knife to his throat threatening to kill himself. I was not home, and Shannon was so freaked out that she didn't know what to do aside from call for help. By this time we had #4 in the house as well, and he was just an infant. When I got home we went to visit #2 in the lockup. While we were there we got a very disturbing call from home and had to leave. #1 had done something very very bad (this is an understatement), and he had been caught by a family member who was staying with us at the time. Going back to my original comment about his being amoral, this act was related to that mindset. And to this day he shows no recognizable remorse for his actions. I have to take him at his word about the events that transpired. And again, going back to my comment about his inability to tell the truth... He and I had a long talk that night as I was deciding what to do with him (turn him in to the police or take him home). I decided to take him at his word that the version of events I was getting from him were true, and that it would not happen again. I had to hire an attorney to help plea out his case so that he could move with us to Ohio. On the occasions that I have seen hints from him that my faith may have been misplaced I confront him on it in no uncertain terms. And on at least one occasion I gave him a serious *** kicking. I have been his constant partner for his court mandated therapy sessions to make sure that he is not skating through on charm, but actually honestly facing issues. And at times I still have my doubts about him. But I can only hope that he proves those doubts wrong in the end.

 

Meanwhile #2 was kept back in the 8th grade which is one of the best things that has happened to him. Aside from the bi-polar, he has the emotional maturity of a much younger kid. And being with younger kids puts him at a more level playing field socially. He is in special education full time, and we have a plan for "mainstreaming" him in some of his classes. His medications have actually been cut back over the past year, and he is a much happier, and predictable kid. He has a melt down once in a while still, but nothing that we have been unable to deal with. Unfortunatly most of these stem from very old patterns of behavior between he and Shannon. So that is still a work in progress. Next year he enters high school, and that will bring a new wave of social challenges for him again. I have great faith that he will exceed our expectations and do very well.

 

#3 is mainstreaming as well. He as going to school on a "special ed" bus because of his social issues. But we got him riding home on the regular bus last year. He is in regular classes but has an aid to help him stay focused. He really has no academic issues at all. His problems are entirly social. And he is making progress there too. He will need to. 3rd grade is about the last year that kids are polite to people who are different. In the 4th grade kids get cruel. He is scheduled to ride the regular bus both ways next year. And his teacher from last year is actually moving to the 4th grade with him so he will have essentially the same class situation for the second year in a row. He is on no medications. And he has stopped licking kids as a sign of wanting to be friends. What is interesting about him is that he understands the difference between real friends and imaginary friends, and he wants to have real friends very badly, but struggles knowing how to behave around other kids. This makes him very sad, and he comforts himself by returning to his imaginary friends again, which also makes him sad. In most other ways he is just a normal 9 year old kid. But because he speaks poorly many people think he is retarded and treat him that way.

 

And that brings me to #4. I jokingly call him the last hope. Everything is cool so far. He is almost 4.

 

So what does this long tail of "poor me" have to do with the questions raised by this thread? It is here to give you some reference about how my opinions and ideas on the topic were formulated. Not as some distant uninvolved opinionated ***, but as a deeply involved living it first hand as a parent opinionated ***.

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

1. There is no rise in defects that I am aware of.
   
2. Corporal punishment when administered properly is an effective parenting tool, and the stigma against parents being firm enough with their kids about keeping their behavior in line is probably worse that doing it.
   
3. There is some clever marketing by drug companies, but I still have faith that the vast majority of professionals try very hard to not be pill pushers. It is lies by desperate parents to manipulate professionals into "fixing their kid" more often that it is drug happy doctors.
   
4. The feminist movement has in some cases had women reject traditional roles for themselves in child rearing. While the "tried and true" formula of father and mother is hard for me to reject outright, other formulas can be just as successful if the correct attention is payed by the parents as a team, regardless of the role they play in that relationship.
   
5. Children of divorce have unique sets of issues, and this will always be the case. It is made worse when the parents use the kids against one another instead of seeing past their own differences for the emotional sake of their children.
   
6. The next is the same answer as the clever marketing.
   
7. Too much drug use by baby boomers? Only when they cannot set their drug use aside for the sake of good parenting. But it is not just drug use. When you become a parent you need to reevaluate your whole life. You need to take the focus off of yourself and put it on your kids (in the correct balance). Any activities that dominate your time could be as bad for your parenting as drug abuse. Mine was constant travel. Just having the whole family home every night has made the biggest difference.
   
8. Same answer as clever marketing.
   
9. Lazy parents. YES. While not all problems can be resolved by better parenting, bad parenting makes any condition worse than it needs to be. Some conditions may need medication, like #2. He cannot function without his medication. Some conditions do not need medication, but uninvolved or bad parents may squeeze their kid into a situation where they are being medicated just to make things easier, not because it is needed. There have been suggestions for medications for #3, but we do not think they are appropriate for him. With the clarity of hindsight, my traveling made every situation in the house worse than it needed to be. And because things were so bad, I wanted to keep travelling to hide from the situations. That was bad parenting. I am trying hard to turn it around, and while I sometimes fear that I have done too little too late, the optimist in me stills sees hope for everyone.
   
10. Loss of religious values? I don't think so, because many people who have stepped away from religion still hold clear values. The advantage of religion is that you are not alone. You are part of a group that has a common set of values, and you have each other for help in staying true to that value set, even when staying true is the harder path. People outside of religion may tend to flex their values to meet changing situations, so instead of a clear beacon as guidance, you end up with shady gray all around where each is as good as the others. I was trying to find out about this very issue in my old Moral Compass *bump* thread.
    

To be fair to Shannon, she suffers from bi-polar which was not diagnosed until we had been married for several years. She has her own struggle in life to deal with that, and I am not always the most sypathetic soul in the world. She is making strides year over year to deal better with her own issues, and that has helped her to better deal with the kids. Critical and honest can look strikingly similar, and it is not my intention to be critical, but rather to be honest.

 

Summary: There is a kid and there are the parents. The three work together to set up the kid for success in life. Deviating from the formula is not a guarantee for failure, but it certainly stacks the deck againt you to some degree.

 

This is enough for one night.

 

Bill

[HydrogenBond]

The data that boys are more prone to disorders than girls is what would be expected. Men have become femininized so there is often no male role model even in some two parent (father/mother) families. With women becoming more masculine, and with more single females as head of households, the female often plays the role of father and mother. But a female does not have the natural instinct to be a male father, but can only become fa emale/male father via social learning, stemming from feminime men and masciline women.

 

The female eating disorders would be expected from culture's stress on sex appeal over female character. It conditions some females to think of themselves as superficial objects such that many of the females don't see worth in their inner selves. The men want to stay adolescent, partially female, as though still emotionally attached to mother, and love female shells without too much emotional attachment because masciline women can not evolve their emotional matures beyond their mothers.

[IDMclean]

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

 

• 
  [1] Not likely, infact more likely to be the reverse. (Medical Advancement, and greater mixing of ethnic diversity. Just a few examples.)
   
  [2] Spare the rod and spoil the child?
  
  • 
    [*a] As Corporeal punishment, Violence only begets more violence. In attempt to teach your children how to behave properly in this way, you only teach them that the use of violence towards solving a problem is an ok thing. I know this as I am a case of that. THis was my father's solution when I got to cocky, and it did nothing but breed resentment and anger in my heart. I know it is the source of my beast, and I know that by realizing the futility of violence I made peace with that beast and I am all the better for it.
     
    [*b] As disertation of the Whole truth, without limit. The truth shall set you free. This is once again an experience that I am privvy to, as unlike my father this is the method my mother employed. Whenever I had a question she would answer it, irregardless of what it may entail. It ment I knew about things before many other kids did and it did mean that ultimately I could commit more and different wrongs, but just because I knew more of good and evil did not make me evil.[math]^A[/math]
    

 

[3] It is possible that it's clever marketing, and admittedly when a problem seems to extreme to treat by therapy alone the psychological professional have a tendency to suggest Medication a little faster than I would like. I have been offered to have all my mental issues resolved by medication on 3 seperate occasions, and each time I refused. Because I refused my mother did like wise, not to say that my mother does as a I wish but my mother acts as an advisor, guardian, mediator, teacher, and lawyer in accordance with my best interests as she see it.

 

[4] This one is interesting that it ends up here. None the less, once again this is one which had baring on my upbringing. My mother is a professed feminist, and Social Dissedent. She is an activist, a poltical and historic buff. She taught me many things which do not agree with many of societies made up little roles. Where the schools tried to indoctornate me into being a good drone, my mother warned me against those who would control me and my destiny. So naturally when it came down to it, me and the schools were oppisite. They often wished to supress my strongly individual self, in favor of a more submissive person. Further, it was my mother's doing that I ended up being raised mostly by her. She saw that my father would not do well by us and feared that we would grow up wounded. The few times I lived with my father were at my request. A request that I would niether make again, nor reverse if I had the chance. My time with my father taught me the harsher aspects of human kind.

 

[5] This one I do not have personal experience with so I can only make a few comments regarding it. One is that Importance is placed. When the parents place importance on their married status and then divorce, this will ofcourse have a greater effect on the child. Something which their parent's concider sacred, and important was just shattered, so obviously one is obligated to treat it likewise, as a sacred, important, and serious matter. My mother did likewise, but with a twist. Her parents were fundamentally incompatible and ended up divorcing. My grandmother (bless her, may she rest in peace) was a feminist, hippy, Devote spirituallist, and my religious/philosophical teacher, and is one of the more influential people in my life. My mother saw both the nature of marriage from the sideline, as a child of old fashion types and saw the battles that ensued from them. She also was very inquisitive and read allot. It was during this time that she encounter the happenstance of two women who were together, in paris, around the time of Picasso. When one of them died, she left her possessions to her lover, whom the family did not concider, well, family. The family ended up getting everything. My mother vowed to never be as her mother was, bound by a social contract which caused such anguish. She sees marriage as an antiquated concept, and fictional at that. The point is, where the importance is placed, so shall the attention follow. React accordingly(sarcassism).

 

[6] We as humans classify. Often we don't have the full picture, or all the angles. So we classify incorrectly or incompletely. Often the people being classified in one way or another are not being honest and so are likewise being over or under diagnosised. This was the case for me. I was a compulsive liar, and to some degree still am, I am just better at catching myself in a lie and fixing it.

 

[7] Depends on what you mean by drugs. Herione? Sure. Weed? No, not really. The Pleasure war is a responce to greater freedoms by the elder portion of the culture. I can't/couldn't have, so why should he/she? So generally, no I don't think this one has much impact. Though I have known some interesting, if not dysfunctional families where the parents were heavy drug users (crank and other crap like that)

 

[8] See three (3) and six (6) together for my opinion here. Add on to it, that some people hurt. Some people hurt so bad that they just want something to fix them. This hurt arises from a dissociation of the individual's responsiblity of themselves. Ultimately we control ourselves. Sometimes we need certain balances to be brought in, but often enough this is not the case. Most often, in my experience, during my time with the SED class, the kids would get on medication in hopes that it would fix something else in their lives, like their parent's hate for them. That if they fixed whatever it was that made them odd-ball out, that it would by proxy fix what was essentially unfixable, because the problem was not within, but without. Key here is Responsibility, mine or yours.

 

[9] Lazy parents. This would have to be further defined. Also, I might suggest another category for this one: Ambigious, Ambivilant, and Narcissistic Parents. I'll respond regarding this one futher once I know better what the classification is.

 

[10] This one has a ring of truth in my life, but in a slightly different way. It was indeed a loss of religion that fed into my despair during the darker time of my life. When I discoverd, at about 8 that I was damned to hell. It was compounded by my conflicted feelings regarding religion.

 

In the bible it said many things that I agreed with, but said so much that I didn't agree with, and still don't. The answer to this is very complicated so I will try to surmise.

 

Religion and/or Spirituallity is important to an individual. However how, why, when, where, why, who, and what brings this one into one's life is completely on the terms of the one who seeks them. So perhaps we could watch some of the disorders dissolve if children were given the freedom to believe what they will and be who they will be, with the support of their parents and community. My father tried to shape me as ball of wax into his image, using the methods he knows, and out of his love for me. However he strangled my freedom to be me, to choose, and understand on my own terms. This caused me much pain. See 8, regarding Responsibility, Pain, the self and others.

 

[11] I hope this one is not serious. This would indicate a fear of emasculation. I am quiet secure with myself as a man. See my various posts regarding freedom, the choice of the self, and the place of a being's right to be secure with themselves without fear of familial-social ostrization.

 

• 
  [A] Footnote: My internal "evil" was born of my father's violence against me, and was brought to peace by my mother's even handed, non-violent, objective, reasoning, compassion and understanding. Lead by example, not by word. For those who will follow you will follow by what you do, not by what you say.
  

 

-Well that is more than I should have said, but hey I'm a fool so I do foolish things.

KickAssClown, The fool who is I am, manifestor of his own destiny.

[InfiniteNow]

And that brings me to #4. I jokingly call him the last hope.

You know, this is a science forum, and I must call to attention the lack of validity in the above comment. Recognizing that you say such a thing jokingly, I'd wager a very large sum of money stating that you haven't actually lost hope in any of the other 3. That's not your style. :eek2:

 

 

Cheers. Wonderful post. :lol:

[HappytheStripper]

Okay .. Im back .. I've spent along time thinking about this .. and there are many replys that hit the nail on the head or so to speak .. its nature vs nurture .. in order for every human to survive they need three basic needs .. enviromental ones .. also the other factors are of course genetic ..

 

I have a question .. does anyone know .. how many disorders there are in total ?? .. and I have news .. its not just children .. its their parents as well .. who have disorders .. I see it daily ..

 

In the early 50's after men returned from the war .. life began changing at a rapid pace .. times changed and technology advanced .. womens liberation saw women work and raise a family .. not like happy days eh .. Depression had begun to rear its ugly head ..

 

So why so many disoreders in general .. and are we talking psychological or physical .. because there are more physical disorders than emotional ones ..

 

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/

 

Have a look .. there are even tests and quizzes to discover whether you have a slight dis-order .. not that I am implying anything ..

 

Dis-order has become a part of life for most people .. others try to re-order their lives .. and some just have no idea ..

 

One by one the world is awakening .. Ashley

[TheBigDog]

You know, this is a science forum, and I must call to attention the lack of validity in the above comment. Recognizing that you say such a thing jokingly, I'd wager a very large sum of money stating that you haven't actually lost hope in any of the other 3. That's not your style. :cup:

 

 

Cheers. Wonderful post. ;)

You would win. ;) I stand both corrected and well understood.

 

Bill

[HappytheStripper]

Okay third time lucky .. I told you I had thought about this alot .. and I finall found what I was looking for .. Children Live What they Learn ..

 

http://www.inspirationalthoughts.co.uk/Childrenlearn.jpg

 

Regards Ashley

[Phileas Fogg]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

Somebody mentioned The Perfect Consumer (Boerseun). ADHD, Asperger syndrome and the bipolar disorder were mentioned. (by KickAssClown)

 

TheBigDog ignored #11 !!! :) Whereas KickAssClown boasted about his manhood, and says he is not afraid of emasculation!

 

I wonder what is the connection. If the culture - our society - is being femininized,- it's then a general trend and assumption. What has my masculinity (or the lack of it) to do with it?? & This might be my answer to original question: yes, I think attention, learning and behavior disorders have come because of feminization our psyche. (not necessarily the body)

 

I think that The Perfect Consumer might actually have ADHD. What I have come to understand, - what I see and hear about ADHD, it is not some new way to think, and organize as KickAssClown was suggesting. ADHD is an attention problem, it is restlesness. I feel it's pathological, - you probably could measure some hormones, or serotonin levels from their nervous system, and find there something wrong.

 

The people I have met, who have a diagnosized case of Asperger syndrome - are... Well, I can not believe this is a positive change. They are such egocentric people. I think the Asperger is a pathological disorder.

 

I am most familiar with the bipolar disorder, and would say - that it seems to me that it's the worst of these; the bipolar disorder is more serious that, let's say acute psychosis.

 

I do not believe it's a sign of genius, or sign of special creativity if someone has ADHD, Asperger, or the bipolar disorder. I don't believe in medicine either. These all might be incurable mental disorders, and I don't know what is causing them. What I've seen, is that if someone has been diagnosized as Asperger of bipolar, they usually develope sort of pride. I could think this is the same as with epilepsy, it was called a "divine" disease in history.

 

It's an other topic, who is crazy, and who is a genius, and how much these do interact. Personally, I don't like the way some modern gurus talk about "crazy wisdom"; it's not as simple as that. You can not take some compulsive or pathological trait, and call it "divine", I think this is dangerous. It may lead to psychopathy and crime.

[Mercedes Benzene]

I don't really think there has been a very significant increase in the number of disorders in children.

I just think that we are now able to better diagnose such illnesses.

 

We've moved from using exorcisms to Lithium pills.

Our medical knowledge is so much better these days.

That's why it appears that there are more cases of childhood disorders now.

[TheBigDog]

TheBigDog ignored #11 !!! :hihi:

Give me a break man! How much do you want me to type? :)

 

Besides, I thought that #4 and #11 were basically the same thing. I could have gone into more detail on #11, but I was really wanting to just get through with the post and submit it. I might say that we are not feminizing society as much as we are emasulating it. The actions associated with a stong father/parent are frowned upon by society as being primitive or cruel. I don't let that stop me. I find them to be effective, but requireing a measured application. And I see in my close relations where a different attitude leads to its own problems.

 

Bill

[Back2Reality]

I was wondering why there are so many new attention, learning and behavior disorders being found in children. I came up with a short list of possible reasons. Does anyone have an opinion?

 

1. A sudden rise in genetic defects in children

2. Spare the rod and spoil the child

3. Clever marketing by the drug manufacturers

4. The feminist movement

5. High rate of divorce

6. Over diagnosis for fun and profit

7. Too much drug use by the baby boomers

8. It is fashionable to take these prescribed drugs

9. Lazy parents

10. Loss of religious values

11. The feminization of culture

 

They all sound good explanations to me, except for number 10.

 

Why the rise in genetic defects? Because medecine prevents natural selection from keeping the population healthy.

[IDMclean]

That's rather humorous actually.

 

Natural selection is not something that can be "stopped". It's a statistical tendency.

 

Sure we can alter the extreme local and short term outcome. However it averages out such that disability doesn't reach very far. Those who are more adaptable (to the environment/context) will reproduce more on average. (think of a closed curve).

 

Now I would think that given the amount of data collection, information processing, storage, search and retrieval that we have developed only in the last 50-100 years, it would be fairly obvious that the answer to why the rise in genetic defects and/or disorders is because we recognize them as such and record them (the disorders) more than we did before in a more easily communicable format.

 

Perhaps then it is merely an increase in our awareness, processing power, and accessibility to that information.